Senate leaders nearing a deal

[Torie]

What was totally inevitable is being realized - right about on schedule - all sound and fury signifying nothing. I just don't get what the contretemps about the medical device tax is all about (why is that tax so noisome as opposed to other taxes - subsidizing the impecunious uninsured does not come for free, even after having higher income young folks kick in a fair amount of the cost through higher premiums than the market would otherwise demand, and somebody has to pay). Hopefully the Pubs will drop that sooner rather than later.

Just why was it so hard for the parties to sit down, like months ago, and negotiate, and then after both parties had laid out all their "demands," that could not be resolved, at least then if stuff is going to be shut down, one would know what was really at stake (e.g., what programs cut or expanded or not, what taxes raised, what entitlements cut or not cut, which programs more means tested, or not) - as opposed to empty rhetoric?  But I guess we had to go through this, so both sides could see how their respective PR campaigns moved the polls. Poll driven government in this context disgusts me.

[The Free North]

Look at the market today.

We're ready to roll baby

[bedstuy]

What was totally inevitable is being realized -

I seem to remember them being close to a deal and nothing happening a few times already.

right about on schedule

There's a government shutdown!  That's the definition of not on schedule!

- all sound and fury signifying nothing.

I think we're seeing a lot of signifying of racism, fundamentalism and backwards tribalism from Republicans.  And this goes to the heart of our ability to govern ourselves and run a 21st century republic.  I have no idea what you mean by this.

I just don't get what the contretemps about the medical device tax is all about (why is that tax so noisome as opposed to other taxes - subsidizing the impecunious uninsured does not come for free, even after having higher income young folks kick in a fair amount of the cost through higher premiums than the market would otherwise demand, and somebody has to pay). Hopefully the Pubs will drop that sooner rather than later.

All taxes are bad in the Republican religion. 

Just why was it so hard for the parties to sit down, like months ago, and negotiate, and then after both parties had laid out all their "demands," that could not be resolved, at least then if stuff is going to be shut down, one would know what was really at stake (e.g., what programs cut or expanded or not, what taxes raised, what entitlements cut or not cut, which programs more means tested, or not) - as opposed to empty rhetoric?  

Because Republicans are insane, fanatical and contemptuous of the legitimacy of our democratic process. 

But I guess we had to go through this, so both sides could see how their respective PR campaigns moved the polls. Poll driven government in this context disgusts me.

Democrats wanted a deal months ago.  This is not about both sides; this is about the Republican side. 

[Torie]

The "schedule" is tied to the debt limit increase. Actually, the CR "shutdown" proved to be less of a world ending event than some advertised, but that object lesson was less dangerous admittedly than seeing what would happen if the US started deferring paying some of its bills on time. What the Dems wanted by the way was more spending than is set forth in the sequester, and right now. They didn't get that. They knew the PR on that one would not work well. In that sense they are smarter than the Pubs, who seemed to not realize that holding Obamacare hostage would flop. Of course, they knew the Dems would never agree to that, but hoped to pick up poll points by getting the Dems to defend it all. Instead they lost points over it - as they should have.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Political theater to satisfy the far right. That's all this ever was from the start.

[bedstuy]

The "schedule" is tied to the debt limit increase. Actually, the CR "shutdown" proved to be less of a world ending event than some advertised, but that object lesson was less dangerous admittedly than seeing what would happen if the US started deferring paying some of its bills on time. What the Dems wanted by the way was more spending than is set forth in the sequester, and right now. They didn't get that. They knew the PR on that one would not work well. In that sense they are smarter than the Pubs, who seemed to not realize that holding Obamacare hostage would flop. Of course, they knew the Dems would never agree to that, but hoped to pick up poll points by getting the Dems to defend it all. Instead they lost points over it - as they should have.

I thought the Democrats agreed to pass and the Senate actually did pass a clean CR which was at Republican budget levels.  Did I just imagine that or are you rewriting history from two weeks ago to fit in your bogus narrative?

[Torie]

I think that 986 billion number is higher than the 965 billion number in the sequester (I may be off a bit in the exact number of billions), and in recent days, there was a lot of chat about upping spending from sequester levels. That at least is my sense of it. I could be wrong. Again, however, the main game was the debt limit increase, not the CR. Always has been.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Call me when the dick waving contest is over.  K? Thx.

[bedstuy]

I think that 986 billion number is higher than the 965 billion number in the sequester (I may be off a bit in the exact number of billions), and in recent days, there was a lot of chat about upping spending from sequester levels. That at least is my sense of it. I could be wrong. Again, however, the main game was the debt limit increase, not the CR. Always has been.

As I understand it, the clean CR was just sequestration levels with some added defense spending (which doesn't count as spending in the Republican accounting method).  And, sure, Democrats wanted to get rid of sequestration.  But, forget the talk, they passed a CR at the exact level that Boehner requested!  They agreed to a bill to reopen the government and would agree to increase the debt limit with no strings attached.  Democrats aren't the holdup here.

[Torie]

I think that 986 billion number is higher than the 965 billion number in the sequester (I may be off a bit in the exact number of billions), and in recent days, there was a lot of chat about upping spending from sequester levels. That at least is my sense of it. I could be wrong. Again, however, the main game was the debt limit increase, not the CR. Always has been.

As I understand it, the clean CR was just sequestration levels with some added defense spending (which doesn't count as spending in the Republican accounting method).  And, sure, Democrats wanted to get rid of sequestration.  But, forget the talk, they passed a CR at the exact level that Boehner requested!  They agreed to a bill to reopen the government and would agree to increase the debt limit with no strings attached.  Democrats aren't the holdup here.

Did Boehner ever cop to the Reid/Obama/Pelosi (mix and match) version of events (more or less what you describe), that Boehner offered something, and then withdrew it (under pressure from the red meaters in his caucus)? Myself, I take all this back and forth about who said what to whom, in what context, and what was a firm offer, and what was just chat, with a very big grain of salt. I just don't trust these boys myself to be candid. Or they have selective memories.

[Lief 🗽]

Actually, the CR "shutdown" proved to be less of a world ending event than some advertised

Um... yeah if you're a rich semi-retired guy in Orange County...

For the tens of millions of people who work for, have a family member who works for, or in other ways depend on the federal government, the government shutdown has been very painful.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Actually, the CR "shutdown" proved to be less of a world ending event than some advertised

Um... yeah if you're a rich semi-retired guy in Orange County...

For the tens of millions of people who work for, have a family member who works for, or in other ways depend on the federal government, the government shutdown has been very painful.

Painful is not the same as world-ending.

[Mr. Morden]

Just why was it so hard for the parties to sit down, like months ago, and negotiate, and then after both parties had laid out all their "demands," that could not be resolved, at least then if stuff is going to be shut down, one would know what was really at stake (e.g., what programs cut or expanded or not, what taxes raised, what entitlements cut or not cut, which programs more means tested, or not) - as opposed to empty rhetoric?  But I guess we had to go through this, so both sides could see how their respective PR campaigns moved the polls. Poll driven government in this context disgusts me.

This is just a deal to keep the status quo in place for 3 months, and kick the can down the road until January, Torie.  None of the underlying issues have been resolved yet.  Actual negotiations about the underlying issues haven't even really begun yet.

I think that 986 billion number is higher than the 965 billion number in the sequester (I may be off a bit in the exact number of billions), and in recent days, there was a lot of chat about upping spending from sequester levels. That at least is my sense of it. I could be wrong. Again, however, the main game was the debt limit increase, not the CR. Always has been.

$986 billion is the *current* sequester level.  By agreeing to this deal, the two parties are sticking with what 2011 budget agreement said would be the sequester spending level for this year.  However, there's another round of sequester cuts scheduled to kick in from January, which would bring annual discretionary spending down to $965 billion.  The Dems don't want discretionary spending to drop that low, but that'll be sorted in negotiations between now and January.  This deal funds the government until January 15 precisely because that's when the new sequester cuts kick in, so that those cuts can be part of the negotiations going forward.

EDIT: When you say "in recent days, there was a lot of chat about upping spending from sequester levels"....that's because in recent days, people were talking about passing a CR that goes beyond January.  Since this one only goes until January, they're skirting the issue.

[Torie]

Thank you for sorting this all out for me Morden.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Actually, the CR "shutdown" proved to be less of a world ending event than some advertised

Um... yeah if you're a rich semi-retired guy in Orange County...

For the tens of millions of people who work for, have a family member who works for, or in other ways depend on the federal government, the government shutdown has been very painful.

Painful is not the same as world-ending.

Nevertheless, the lack of concern/empathy of many on the Right towards the people most vulnerable to the shutdown is pretty appalling.

[Mr. Morden]

Here is the thumbnail sketch of the deal:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/the-senates-deal-to-end-the-shutdown-is-a-deal-to-fight-over-sequestration/?print=1

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House Republicans still haven't agreed to this, but Robert Costa says a "growing number" of House Republicans want Boehner to go along with whatever the Senate agrees to:

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/389849761718624256

[TJ in Oregon]

The medical device tax repeal is simply the least controversial bargaining chip the GOP has managed to find that they can insert into this thing to save face. They have to find a way to go back home to their constituents and say they got something out of it. Damage control. I'm curious to see if the Dems are willing to sign on to the medical device tax repeal though. I'd image they will agree if the votes are actually there, but I suppose they could refuse.

Of course the Republicans never had a chance of succeeding with this maneuver to begin with. It was stupid, doomed to failure, and only served to tick a bunch of people off and make the party look bad.

[Lief 🗽]

Looks like the end game of this saga is a big victory for unions! Thank Ted Cruz!

[Mr. Morden]

Obviously, this is a very fluid situation, but Robert Costa reports that at least as of right now, this morning, House Republicans are not on board with the Senate deal, don't think Boehner will bring it up for a vote on the floor, and are still pushing a debt ceiling increase that lasts just six weeks:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/361244/house-conservatives-revolt-robert-costa

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[Mr. Morden]

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/390105124736991232

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https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/390107003894251520

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So, yeah, if that's true, the House will ignore the Senate deal, and try to pass a debt ceiling extension with some Obamacare changes included.  If Obama and Reid are sticking to their guns and insisting on a clean debt ceiling extension, then they won't go along with this, and we have no deal.

[7,052,770]

Getting rid of the reinsurance fees is the worst idea yet. How could they fund the reinsurance program without it?

If republicans want to ax the reinsurance program, which smooths out the variability of the individual markets and allows rates to be 15% lower, whatever -- they just need to admit and own it.  But it's too late for 2014. The rates are already out there and people have already bought insurance.  Its simply too late to increase rates by 15%.  If Republicans want this, where have they been the last 3 years?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Getting rid of the reinsurance fees is the worst idea yet. How could they fund the reinsurance program without it?

If republicans want to ax the reinsurance program, which smooths out the variability of the individual markets and allows rates to be 15% lower, whatever -- they just need to admit and own it.  But it's too late for 2014. The rates are already out there and people have already bought insurance.  Its simply too late to increase rates by 15%.  If Republicans want this, where have they been the last 3 years?

It was Democrats who wanted to delay the reinsurance tax, as it would hit labor unions hard, but apparently that's out of the deal now.

[Lief 🗽]

Looks like the House's final gambit is expanding Obamacare to cover literally hundreds more people (Congress, Pres/VP and cabinet) and increasing government oversight of middle-class American's paychecks (income verification in exchanges).

Very tea party liberty live free or die good job.

[Landslide Lyndon]

LOL!

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

I think Boehner will give the finger to the tea party and allow a vote on the Democrats' bill. theres been talk he told to the Tea Party to "Shut yourself down".