Senate leaders nearing a deal
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  Senate leaders nearing a deal
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The Free North
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« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2013, 07:32:15 PM »

Anyone who seriously thought Boehner would allow the country to default and ruin his historical legacy is insane. He knows that in the long run, even if he loses his Speakership, that this deal is better for his legacy and the country.

Pretty much this

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King
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« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2013, 08:02:52 PM »

Boehner's legacy as Speaker is already ruined.  The left will remember him as an obstructionist and the right will remember him as a coward.  The middle won't remember him.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2013, 08:16:10 PM »

Yep, Boehner is one the worst Speakers ever.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2013, 08:19:51 PM »

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2013, 08:37:00 PM »

Boehner's legacy as Speaker is already ruined.  The left will remember him as an obstructionist and the right will remember him as a coward.  The middle won't remember him.


Yep, Boehner is one the worst Speakers ever.
More or less, but what is he going to do, allow us to default and make it even worse?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2013, 08:41:42 PM »

Boehner may be ready to give in, and bring the Senate deal up for a vote:

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/390262082483916800

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https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/390263727154397184

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He has said that he wont let the country default.

It will come up for a vote, the question is whether or not he has the votes to pass it

I doubt he has enough to satisfy the Hastert "rule", but I don't think any plan that could pass the House and Senate could do that right now.
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King
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« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2013, 08:52:48 PM »

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?

I'll concede that his tan isn't as bad as stand up comics make it out to be.
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badgate
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« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2013, 09:05:35 PM »

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?

I'll concede that he has committed to making his job really difficult. It would be less difficult if he'd team up with Nancy Pelosi, doing what pundits vaguely call "leading," and stonewall the part of his caucus holding the House hostage with the help of Democrats. I mean, seriously, at this point, it's not like he's going to still have this job in 2015.
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7,052,770
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« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2013, 09:12:48 PM »

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?

Yes, but it's his own damn fault.
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anvi
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« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2013, 12:13:53 AM »

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?

I think Boehner is ok, and I think his job has been from the beginning basically impossible.  Nobody is going to be able to do a good job dealing with a nutter caucus unless that leader him or herself is also nutter.  I think he resisted brokering a deal up till now because he knows that, if he does, the nutters will make Cantor the speaker instead of him, and nothing good will come from a Cantor speakership.  So, basically, I'm with you on this point.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?

I like Boehner too, but at this point, he needs to saw, "Screw it" to the Tea Partiers and just get the bills passed.  If that means a coalition of the Democrats and a few Republicans, then so be it.  I think once the first wave of bold dissenters makes it through the gates of the Tea Party's barricade to progress, more and more sensible Republicans will go along.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2013, 07:40:46 AM »

Again, Robert Costa's Twitter feed is the go-to place for info from his GOP sources.  Sounds like the House Republicans are now just waiting around for the Senate deal to be formally announced by Reid and McConnell, so they can react.  No planned meeting of the House GOP caucus until that happens:

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/390456339664601089

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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2013, 08:45:21 AM »

This is the remaining sticking point in the Senate deal, that hasn't yet been resolved:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-default-update-98390.html

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The House Republican leadership is considering moving on the Senate compromise bill first:

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Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.
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« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2013, 08:54:17 AM »

It all ends?


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Beet
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« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2013, 09:00:25 AM »

The Dow is zooming.
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Blue3
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« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2013, 09:03:09 AM »

Ted Cruz to filibuster?
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Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.
diskymike44
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« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2013, 09:08:08 AM »


He tries that, they will hang him upside down by his balls.
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Holmes
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« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2013, 09:10:49 AM »

I can't believe we gave up one of the best Speakers in modern time for one of the worst.

As the one remaining person who still likes John Boehner, could I get y'all to at least concede that he has a really difficult job?

Ok, but what does that have to do with Boehner? That says more about the job of Speaker of the House than anythig else.
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CJK
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« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2013, 10:11:57 AM »

Unbelievable. If Boehner and other RINO traitors were going to surrender anyway, what the hell was the point of all this? Why get our hopes up for absolutely nothing?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2013, 10:35:57 AM »

Unbelievable. If Boehner and other RINO traitors were going to surrender anyway, what the hell was the point of all this? Why get our hopes up for absolutely nothing?

That's why Boehner tried to avoid the shutdown for a long time, but had to give in, and it's why 80% of GOP Senators despise Cruz right now. Boehner surrendered to the Tea Party with the shutdown and surrendered again now.
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« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2013, 10:39:54 AM »

Unbelievable. If Boehner and other RINO traitors were going to surrender anyway, what the hell was the point of all this? Why get our hopes up for absolutely nothing?

Ted Cruz is a real-life Michael Eddington, selling idealistic fools on false hopes and impossible dreams.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2013, 10:50:58 AM »

Unbelievable. If Boehner and other RINO traitors were going to surrender anyway, what the hell was the point of all this? Why get our hopes up for absolutely nothing?

You can't shutdown the entire govt. But you can give furloughs to civil employees, days off without pay and not default, which is called sequestration.
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Beet
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« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2013, 10:53:32 AM »

The present problems of Congress can be traced back to two developments from the mid-1990s. The first is the strict "Hastert rule."

The (weak form) of the Hastert rule says that the Speaker will not bring a bill to the floor with the majority of the majority in support. But the strict Hastert rule says that the Speaker will not bring a bill to the floor unless a majority of the House can be reached by the majority caucus. In other words, Boehner has to reach 218 solely by members of his own party. In effect, the latest government shutdown and debt ceiling debate have been governed by this "strict Hastert rule."

This effectively gives greater power to the minority of a minority, the smaller the minority is. A Boehner with a 300-seat caucus in the House wouldn't have had to worry about three dozen discontented Tea Partiers, especially since the extra padding for his 300-seat majority would have come from moderate Republican districts. He could easily get to 217 without the crazies. However, with only 234 seats, he can only afford 16 defections. That gives any 16 House Republicans the ability to hold up the entire faith and credit of the United States, and the entire world economy. Now let us say that there's a backlash against the Tea Partiers and as a consequence, the Democrats pick up 5 seats in the House. Does this reduce the power of the House Tea Party "caucus"? No, it increases it. Thanks to the Hastert Rule, Boehner's defection allowance drops from 16 to 11. Now, any 11 Republicans can hold up the whole US and world economy. This is the fundamental perversion of the strict Hastert rule: under any Republican majority, a vote for a Democratic candidate for House, is essentially, the same as a vote for the most intransigent member of the GOP. Replacing a House Republican with a Democrat has the same effect as replacing a conservative House Republican with a Tea Party House Republican.

The second development from the mid-1990s was the so called "Kristol Memo." Like the 1971 Powell Memo, the Kristol Memo has had a seminal effect on GOP politics. Prior to the Kristol memo, if the opposition party opposed a bill on the merits, it would oppose it; but if it supported a bill on the merits, it would support it. Naturally, the only way for any bill to have bipartisan support is if the majority introduces a bill that the opposition also supports on the merits. This is practically a tautology. However, in 1993 Bill Kristol wrote a memo that told Republicans, effectively, that even if they supported health care reform on the merits, they should not work with Bill Clinton because to do so would allow Clinton to take the credit for passing a major reform. The strategy thus shifted away from merit and substance of law to merit of politics. The spectacular success of the Kristol memo is attested by the results of 1993-94. Not only did health care reform fail, but the GOP took Congress for the first time in 40 years. Memories of such coups do not fade easily.

This is why, as late as mid-2009, Chuck Grassley could say things like the individual mandate has "bipartisan consensus", and Mitt Romney can pen op-eds in support of the individual mandate, yet once it became the centerpiece of Obama's legislative agenda, it also became the primary bete noir of the GOP. The GOP wanted to defeat the ACA so that they could say Obama was a failed president. This is politics over substance. And that carried over again today into the shutdown and debt ceiling showdown.

The roots of today's ills trace back to these two phenomena, the 'strict Hastert rule' and the Kristol Memo, both of which trace their roots to 1993-1995.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2013, 10:56:59 AM »

Unbelievable. If Boehner and other RINO traitors were going to surrender anyway, what the hell was the point of all this? Why get our hopes up for absolutely nothing?

To look like a bunch of idiots
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CJK
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« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2013, 10:59:05 AM »

Unbelievable. If Boehner and other RINO traitors were going to surrender anyway, what the hell was the point of all this? Why get our hopes up for absolutely nothing?

That's why Boehner tried to avoid the shutdown for a long time, but had to give in, and it's why 80% of GOP Senators despise Cruz right now. Boehner surrendered to the Tea Party with the shutdown and surrendered again now.

But I don't understand why he had to give in to them a few weeks ago but has to surrender today. They still oppose the deal, so why didn't he pass it with Dem votes from the beginning?
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