Opinion of the U.S. Constitution

[Lief 🗽]

Also I love the whole THOSE OLD GUYS WERE RACIST epidemic, pretending as if today's standards existed then.

Ummm... they did? There was already strong opposition to slavery back then.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

'How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?'

Samuel Johnson

[DC Al Fine]

Also I love the whole THOSE OLD GUYS WERE RACIST epidemic, pretending as if today's standards existed then.

Ummm... they did? There was already strong opposition to slavery back then.

Yeah, but the standard in many areas was "I think Negroes should be free but, it's not like they should have the vote or anything." The difference is immaterial in deciding whether one would be considered racist by modern standards.

[muon2]

There's a lot of discussion about how outdated the document is, but I think it unfair to consider it as a document today without its amendments. That's the whole point of amendments, to keep to document current to the changing needs of the people. So any discussion about slavery and the lack of suffrage seems moot to me. They aren't relevant to the constitution today.

Other concerns are often about the gridlock and lack of of progressive policy. However, I would hold up the EU as an appropriate parallel to the USA. Both are associations of states for common economic policy, and the US goes further in defense and foreign policy through its constitution. How should the European states structure their sovereignty compared to the EU? That question is just as appropriate in the US. The idea that the US should be viewed in parallel to any individual European state makes no sense to me.

[Redalgo]

There's a lot of discussion about how outdated the document is, but I think it unfair to consider it as a document today without its amendments. That's the whole point of amendments, to keep to document current to the changing needs of the people. So any discussion about slavery and the lack of suffrage seems moot to me. They aren't relevant to the constitution today.

I completely agree with this, yet my concerns about the Constitution being outdated were already factoring in the amendments made to the document.

Gridlock is not a serious problem today, in my humble opinion, and the lack of progressive policy would not be either if not for the Constitution itself institutionalizing an out-of-date variation on liberalist ideology - something which will not change for a few generations at the very soonest.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Freedom Document, of course.  I get that it was a product of its time, but upon closer examination, it was rather progressive even then.  It shouldn't be worshipped the way a lot of conservatives (and even some liberals) do, though.

[Mechaman]

Silly HP gooses, this is why we have things called "Amendments" to change the Constitution.

As for the Constitution itself. . .  .. tl;dr.

[RI]

On balance a "horrible document", though it has a number of positives. Unfortunately the amendment process is not one of them.

[SPC]

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[Mechaman]

It was good when it was written.  Nowadays, we could definitely use something better.

That being said... the thought of Eric Cantor, Charlie Rangel, Mitch McConnell, and Harry Reid writing my new constitution is kind of horrifying.

So yeah... I'll just keep the one we have.

Yeah this kid has brought up a really good point.

[RedSLC]

Freedom document. It may have some flaws, but that's why it's been allowed to change with time (both with the amendment process and through new interpretations).

It was good when it was written.  Nowadays, we could definitely use something better.

That being said... the thought of Eric Cantor, Charlie Rangel, Mitch McConnell, and Harry Reid writing my new constitution is kind of horrifying.

So yeah... I'll just keep the one we have.

This, too.

[ZuWo]

Freedom Document. Among other things, it has heavily influenced the first Swiss Constitution of 1848. Like all Constitutions, however, it should be carefully but gradually adapted to the changing political realities.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Also I love the whole THOSE OLD GUYS WERE RACIST epidemic, pretending as if today's standards existed then.

So is it okay to excuse the guillotining of political opponents in the past simply because we no longer do that?

That being said... the thought of Eric Cantor, Charlie Rangel, Mitch McConnell, and Harry Reid writing my new constitution is kind of horrifying.

This, however, is the best point made in this thread.

[Frodo]

Like any document written by mortals it has its flaws, but overall it is a freedom document to this very day.  Apart from a couple of new amendments (Equal Rights and Voting Rights), I like it just the way it is.  

[All Along The Watchtower]

Mixed, lean Horrible Document because of Constitunional fundamentalism.