MA: Right to Life Act (Failed)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: JohanusCalvinusLibertas

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Assemblyman JCL, do you mean five years in prison for the mother, the doctor, or both?  

I want to preface this next part to avoid confusion by emphasizing that I am pro-choice and oppose any jail sentence for abortion.  I am simply using the logical extreme of being pro-life to demonstrate why anyone who truly believes in their heart of hearts that abortion is the same murdering a baby should oppose this bill just as much as I do (albeit for very different reasons).

I have to ask, do you (Assemblyman JCL) truly believe that a fetus is every bit as much human life as a person?  Because if so, with all due respect, I don't see how you can possibly reconcile this bill with that belief.  Imagine that (God forbid) someone who was not legally insane were to walk into a hospital and shoots a baby, surely you wouldn't say we should only sentence them to five years in prison.  I'd suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) you'd say they should get quite a lengthy prison sentence, maybe life, or even the death penalty, depending on the state.  Say that you're a lawmaker and for whatever reason, the harshest penalty for such a crime was 5 years in prison that could ever hope to make it into law.  Would you say "well, realistically the harshest penalty that I can ever hope to get implemented is five years, so I guess can very grudgingly live with that?"  Of course not, you would say "this is beyond an outrage, I am going to fight tirelessly for nothing less than 50 years or what-have-you for such a truly evil act of cold blooded murder" (I just randomly picked a number/penalty, so let's not get hung up on that).  I strongly suspect it'd be the latter or at least only settling for something a [Inks]mn sight harsher than five years (though again, correct me if I'm wrong).  

I think we can all agree that Assemblyman JCL is one of the most passionately pro-life individuals in Atlasia.  I submit to you that the fact that he felt he could in good conscience support a penalty of only five years in prison is an unintentional acknowledgment of the fact that at an unconscious level, there is a part of him that doesn't truly believe an first or second trimester abortion (at the least) is the same as murdering a newborn baby.  Otherwise, how could he possibly justify settling for something like this?  I know if I believed abortion was the same as murdering a newborn baby, I'd want it to be prosecuted just as harshly as...well...murdering a newborn baby.  Heck, people have gotten 15 years for armed robbery.  Say what you will, but Assemblyman JCL has consistently proven he says what he thinks and his brand is that he will stand on principle when it comes to social issues like abortion.  The fact that even he did not think there was a principle to stand on regarding abortion is quite telling, imo.  Thus, one can only conclude that to vote for this bill as a pro-life individual is to admit that abortion is not the same as murdering a newborn baby.  And if it isn't the same as murdering a newborn baby, then what exactly is the point of this law?  

[PJ]

Wow. Unbelievable.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

To answer X's concerns and desire for a harsher sentence.

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Sponsor: JohanusCalvinusLibertas

First and second trimester abortions are as equally wrong as killing a newborn. With the exception of the Gosnell case, how often do you hear of an abortion doctor getting that kind of sentence ?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

To answer X's concerns and desire for a harsher sentence.

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Sponsor: JohanusCalvinusLibertas

First and second trimester abortions are as equally wrong as killing a newborn. With the exception of the Gosnell case, how often do you hear of an abortion doctor getting that kind of sentence ?

I don't want a harsher sentence, I just want people to be intellectually consistent.  I'm even more staunchly opposed to the amended bill than the old one.

[DemPGH]

I mean I'm. . . uh, flabbergasted. WOW. Come on, man.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I think this is a good compromise between my bill and the one X proposed.  Good job, JCL.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I think this is a good compromise between my bill and the one X proposed.  Good job, JCL.

Isn't this harsher than your bill? 

[Napoleon]

I think this is a good compromise between my bill and the one X proposed.  Good job, JCL.

Isn't this harsher than your bill? 

lol

[Flake]

This is a goddamn awful bill that infringes the rights of all women in the mideast. You sirs need to talk to an actual woman how all of this works and why we should support keeping pro choice laws (*coughs loudly* Siren *cough*)

[tmthforu94]

Make smart decisions, my friends in the Mideast.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Who would be sentenced to 25 years under this act?

[DemPGH]

I think in a clear-eyed manner everyone needs to really just sit back and think this through. This is for all intents and purposes a near total ban. Legalities aside, you have to ask if it is good common sense. Do you really think a total ban would stop abortion?

To make a history lesson very short, abortion is an ancient procedure, often quite unsafe in the past, and women have always sought them for undesired pregnancies. Which is unfortunate but true. If a near total ban were to happen you'd have a creep down every other back alley willing to take us back centuries by performing abortions using goodness knows what technique. Why would anyone want to subject a woman, a fellow human being, to that?

I think it's far, far wiser to 1) trust women to make their own decisions, of course, because it's not your situation or your choice, and to pursue 2) preventive measures. Why not sex education, why not birth control, etc.? Sure, we have stuff at the federal level, but why not attack the problem preventively?

And 25 years is just straight up madness.

[Gass3268]

If this law is passed, I will intorduce Federal legislation to override it. Just saying...

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I can't support this in its current form.  There are too many logical inconsistencies for me.

[afleitch]

Absolutely disgraceful.

[ZuWo]

Absolutely disgraceful.

More disgraceful than this?

Executive Election:
[   ] ZuWo/Spiral
[ 1 ] Write-in: Rastamouse

Legislative Election:
[ 3 ] Inks.LWC
[  ] JohanusCalvinusLibertas
[ 2 ] Mr. X
[ 4 ] Njall
[ 675 ] Oldiesfreak1854
[ 1 ] Siren
[ 5 ] Write-In: Michael Jackson
[ 6 ] Write-In: Marquis Du Sade
[ 7 ] Write-In: John Lithgow as the guy in Dexter who calls his wife a c-nt
[ 8 ] Write-In: John Lithgow in Santa Clause the Movie
[ 9 ] Write-In: Dr Josef Mengele
[ 10 ] Write-In: The people who ratted out Ann Frank
[ 11 ] Write-In: Sirhan B Sirhan
[ 12 ] Write-In: Sirhan C Sirhan
[ 13 ] Write-In: Sirhan D Sirhan
[ 14 ] Write-In: Duran Duran
[ 15 ] Write-In: 'Do do do do, do do do do do do, do do do doooh doooooh'
[ 16 ] Write-In: Biff Tannen
[ 17 ] Write-In: The alternative Biff Tannen from the altered 1984 timeline
[ 18 ] Write-In: Veronica's Closet
[ 19 ] Write-In: I mean that had like what, three seasons?
[ 20 ] Write-In: Let me check Wikipedia
[ 21 ] Write-In: Yup, three seasons
[ 22 ] Write-In: Kathy Najimy was in it
[ 23 ] Write-In: She was the fat nun in Sister Act, but she lost a lot of weight
[ 24 ] Write-In: All elected MP's to the UK Parliament which should take us to
[674] Write-In: Their collective fecal matter

[afleitch]

Absolutely disgraceful.

More disgraceful than this?

Executive Election:
[   ] ZuWo/Spiral
[ 1 ] Write-in: Rastamouse

Legislative Election:
[ 3 ] Inks.LWC
[  ] JohanusCalvinusLibertas
[ 2 ] Mr. X
[ 4 ] Njall
[ 675 ] Oldiesfreak1854
[ 1 ] Siren
[ 5 ] Write-In: Michael Jackson
[ 6 ] Write-In: Marquis Du Sade
[ 7 ] Write-In: John Lithgow as the guy in Dexter who calls his wife a c-nt
[ 8 ] Write-In: John Lithgow in Santa Clause the Movie
[ 9 ] Write-In: Dr Josef Mengele
[ 10 ] Write-In: The people who ratted out Ann Frank
[ 11 ] Write-In: Sirhan B Sirhan
[ 12 ] Write-In: Sirhan C Sirhan
[ 13 ] Write-In: Sirhan D Sirhan
[ 14 ] Write-In: Duran Duran
[ 15 ] Write-In: 'Do do do do, do do do do do do, do do do doooh doooooh'
[ 16 ] Write-In: Biff Tannen
[ 17 ] Write-In: The alternative Biff Tannen from the altered 1984 timeline
[ 18 ] Write-In: Veronica's Closet
[ 19 ] Write-In: I mean that had like what, three seasons?
[ 20 ] Write-In: Let me check Wikipedia
[ 21 ] Write-In: Yup, three seasons
[ 22 ] Write-In: Kathy Najimy was in it
[ 23 ] Write-In: She was the fat nun in Sister Act, but she lost a lot of weight
[ 24 ] Write-In: All elected MP's to the UK Parliament which should take us to
[674] Write-In: Their collective fecal matter

Much more disgraceful. I'd rather cast a comedy vote for dead people who can do no more harm, than a living bigot who can.

[Sbane]

ZuWo, why is it that you'll only comment on controversial issues when it's to call out someone who's hurt your feelings? Do you have nothing to say on the actual bill? How would you react if the Assembly sent this to you?

Perhaps he won't sign it again.

This is a disgraceful bill and I hope it is defeated.

[ZuWo]

ZuWo, why is it that you'll only comment on controversial issues when it's to call out someone who's hurt your feelings? Do you have nothing to say on the actual bill? How would you react if the Assembly sent this to you?

This is the Mideast Assembly. It is primarily the job of the members of this body to make sure that bills are debated, and fortunately they are doing a good job. I have expressed my opinion on the issue of abortion on so many occasions that my input is not required all the time. The bill has my ideological support, of course. That being said, I couldn't care less what people not from the Mideast think of this bill.

Also, it was appropriate and necessary to point out the hypocrisy of someone who calls a bill "disgraceful" but votes for "Dr. Mengele" and the "people who ratted out Anne Frank" to express his disapproval of certain candidates. If you really think this is just a case of "my hurt feelings" and not a serious issue that concerns the game as a whole, I am extremely baffled. In fact, it is yet another case which shows that there are prominent segments of the Atlasian left that make regular use of highly distasteful insults to their political opponents. Fortunately this doesn't apply to the two leftists that are members of this body, but it is a clearly discernible pattern in Atlasia in general.

[afleitch]

Also, it was appropriate and necessary to point out the hypocrisy of someone who calls a bill "disgraceful" but votes for "Dr. Mengele" and the "people who ratted out Anne Frank" to express his disapproval of certain candidates. If you really think this is just a case of "my hurt feelings" and not a serious issue that concerns the game as a whole, I am extremely baffled. In fact, it is yet another case which shows that there are prominent segments of the Atlasian left that make regular use of highly distasteful insults to their political opponents. Fortunately this doesn't apply to the two leftists that are members of this body, but it is a clearly discernible pattern in Atlasia in general.

You think a joke ballot because I refuse to cast a vote for JCL, given everything he stands for (which is essentially against everything I am as a person) is a 'serious issue'? And I'm of 'the left' now? When did that happen?

[ZuWo]

That being said, I couldn't care less what people not from the Mideast think of this bill.

Both afleitch and I are from the Mideast...

Who has disputed that?

Also, it was appropriate and necessary to point out the hypocrisy of someone who calls a bill "disgraceful" but votes for "Dr. Mengele" and the "people who ratted out Anne Frank" to express his disapproval of certain candidates. If you really think this is just a case of "my hurt feelings" and not a serious issue that concerns the game as a whole, I am extremely baffled. In fact, it is yet another case which shows that there are prominent segments of the Atlasian left that make regular use of highly distasteful insults to their political opponents. Fortunately this doesn't apply to the two leftists that are members of this body, but it is a clearly discernible pattern in Atlasia in general.

You think a joke ballot because I refuse to cast a vote for JCL, given everything he stands for (which is essentially against everything I am as a person) is a 'serious issue'? And I'm of 'the left' now? When did that happen?

Sorry I didn't think your "Mengele" and "Anne Frank" "joke" was funny.

[afleitch]

Yes I know you don’t find it funny. You’ve said that about three times now.

What I don’t find funny is any man who is blasé with pregnancy, because that’s what any man who pushes back the definition of human life until it’s smaller than a full stop some to adhere to some theological or philosophical niche he wants to nestle into, is being. Because only someone with a blasé approach to pregnancy would call such a thing ‘life’ and it’s destruction ‘death’ without any concern for the psychological impact of the mother in making that definition.

There’s only a 30% chance of getting pregnant each menstrual cycle with most fertilized eggs failing to implant. 15-20% percent of confirmed pregnancies end in miscarriage. So with only 1 in three conceptions implanting and a further 15-20% of those ending in miscarriage the majority of fertilized eggs fail to make it. So calling a fertilized egg ‘life’ or even just an implanted egg ‘life’ means that when it is rejected it ‘dies’. There’s no intention for it to demise, and you can say its part of nature (which it is) or say that Jesus wants them for a sunbeam or whatever. But in making that definition, you have now ordained that women harbour death. Statistically speaking more ‘deaths’ occur inside a woman than life being delivered to term and because you’ve said that all those little unviable zygotes that the body rejects because of gross mutations, or because they have incompatible chromosomes or because they are wrenched from the lining because she falls or is punched in the gut, is a little life being snuffed out, you have therefore perverted what it means to be a woman and a mother. That is what is disgusting about this bill.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Absolutely disgraceful.

More disgraceful than this?

Executive Election:
[   ] ZuWo/Spiral
[ 1 ] Write-in: Rastamouse

Legislative Election:
[ 3 ] Inks.LWC
[  ] JohanusCalvinusLibertas
[ 2 ] Mr. X
[ 4 ] Njall
[ 675 ] Oldiesfreak1854
[ 1 ] Siren
[ 5 ] Write-In: Michael Jackson
[ 6 ] Write-In: Marquis Du Sade
[ 7 ] Write-In: John Lithgow as the guy in Dexter who calls his wife a c-nt
[ 8 ] Write-In: John Lithgow in Santa Clause the Movie
[ 9 ] Write-In: Dr Josef Mengele
[ 10 ] Write-In: The people who ratted out Ann Frank
[ 11 ] Write-In: Sirhan B Sirhan
[ 12 ] Write-In: Sirhan C Sirhan
[ 13 ] Write-In: Sirhan D Sirhan
[ 14 ] Write-In: Duran Duran
[ 15 ] Write-In: 'Do do do do, do do do do do do, do do do doooh doooooh'
[ 16 ] Write-In: Biff Tannen
[ 17 ] Write-In: The alternative Biff Tannen from the altered 1984 timeline
[ 18 ] Write-In: Veronica's Closet
[ 19 ] Write-In: I mean that had like what, three seasons?
[ 20 ] Write-In: Let me check Wikipedia
[ 21 ] Write-In: Yup, three seasons
[ 22 ] Write-In: Kathy Najimy was in it
[ 23 ] Write-In: She was the fat nun in Sister Act, but she lost a lot of weight
[ 24 ] Write-In: All elected MP's to the UK Parliament which should take us to
[674] Write-In: Their collective fecal matter

Much more disgraceful. I'd rather cast a comedy vote for dead people who can do no more harm, than a living bigot who can.

Here's the thing Afleitch. I'm not a bigot. While I oppose gay marriage, adoption and gay military service, I don't oppose domestic partner benefits or laws regarding non discrimination in the work place. It's a two way street and if you're paying attention to non mainstream American news outlets, you'll here much more bigotry against gun owners, the Tea Party, Libertarians, Christians, Veterans, Constitutionalists by the very same people who call for tolerance all around.

[Talleyrand]

Sorry I didn't think your "Mengele" and "Anne Frank" "joke" was funny.

I'm curious as to when you'll actually make a substantive contribution to the debate taking place here over this odious bill, rather than playing victim over some nonexistent slight. I know it's probably too much to ask from you, but at least make an attempt please.