Should the international media apologise for anti-Roma racism?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Etc.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Should be a massive investigation in the HSE and the Gardai now... Of course, however, the media suddenly dropped the story once it came clear that those two children were in fact Roma... and it will be never spoken of again.

[Leftbehind]

Of course. All the objectivity and fair-mindedness of the Paedofinder General.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Shouldn't Cher also apologize?

http://youtu.be/TOSZwEwl_1Q

[Oakvale]

Someone needs to make a brave stand against the gypsy paedo gangs roaming Greece and Ireland, Al. As I heard on the radio the other day, it's typical of the gutless media to ignore this rampant plague until it's too late and Roma families can just raise their own blonde children with wild abandon.

First they came for the systematically racist public institutions, and I did not speak out, because I was not a systematically racist public institution...

EDIT:

Here, by the way, is the typical attitude. I'm sure no-one's surprised -

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[minionofmidas]

For that to make any sense whatsoever, wouldn't they kind of have to cease being bastions of institutional antiziganism first?

[Silent Hunter]

Of course, however, the media suddenly dropped the story once it came clear that those two children were in fact Roma... and it will be never spoken of again.

The Daily Fail is still running with the story of the Bulgarian girl over possible child selling, but the Irish one has been dropped.

It is entirely possible for two dark-haired parents to produced a blonde child - aren't the concepts of dominant and recessive genes taught at Leaving Cert level?

[angus]

Racist option.  

The stories here--I heard one yesterday on WITF radio news and one the day before, and have read in the NYT on-line a bit--are all about how brown Roma with pale children are being accused of childsnatching, but that generally the accusations are proved false and all is quickly set right.  Here's an excerpt from Today's NYT:

For centuries across Europe, children were raised on folk tales with a disturbing message: Wander into the woods and you risk being snatched by Gypsies.  Such a warning seems like an anachronism...  but the stereotype of the child-stealing Gypsy was reawakened in recent days when a Roma couple in Greece were jailed on accusations that they had abducted a blond, green-eyed girl...  This week, two blond, blue-eyed Roma children were taken from their parents in Ireland...  The children in Ireland were quickly returned to their families after DNA testing confirmed that the Roma were their parents. In Greece, the police confirmed on Friday that Maria was the child of a Roma couple from Bulgaria.

So it appears here that some reporters are reporting stuff, and what is getting reported here seems accurate.  I'd vote No if you offered the option, but since you didn't voted that I'm a racist.

You sort of make a good point, though.  The NYT piece writes

“Imagine if the situation were reversed and the children were brown and the parents were white, would they have ever been taken away?” said Dezideriu Gergely, the executive director of the European Roma Rights Center..

Point taken, but your instinct to shoot the messenger seems misguided.

[Tender Branson]

Good this happened in Greece and Ireland and not here.

I'm sure the newspapers would be full of "Austrian NAZI police takes away blonde, blue-eyed children from Gypsies, because blonde, blue-eyed children belong to blonde, blue-eyed Austrians" etc.

[afleitch]

I blame the 'Look in to her eyes' Madeline McCann media machine actually which twice a year blames someone new for her disappearance.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Yes

[Hifly]

Children ought to have a better upbringing than under a tribal Roma or Irish Traveller family.
The lack of concern among many families for the educational development of their children is a horrific indication of a backward culture which must modernise.

[GMantis]

Since the media had no way of knowing the results of the investigation in the Greek case, their reaction was not unjustified, especially considering that other explanations were also unlikely (see explanation below). Furthermore, the people who claimed to be the girl's parents were involved in a crime, even if child trading is not as bad as outright kidnapping. So the answer is "no", which makes me a racist. Though since by your definition racist means "someone who believes that members of an ethnic group may commit a crime for which they are negatively stereotyped", it's not nearly as damning as you imagine it to be

Of course, however, the media suddenly dropped the story once it came clear that those two children were in fact Roma... and it will be never spoken of again.

The Daily Fail is still running with the story of the Bulgarian girl over possible child selling, but the Irish one has been dropped.

It is entirely possible for two dark-haired parents to produced a blonde child - aren't the concepts of dominant and recessive genes taught at Leaving Cert level?

Entirely possible and likely are two different things. What with the rarity of blond hair even among the native population in the Balkans and the high degree of endogamy among Balkan Gypsies, the probability is probably well below one percent. And it's considerably less likely for two dark-skinned parents to have a light skinned child, unless a condition like albinism is present which appears to be the case here. And the probability for that is about one in 17000, so it's not surprising that it wasn't considered.

For that to make any sense whatsoever, wouldn't they kind of have to cease being bastions of institutional antiziganism first?

This is the kind of statement that makes me question whether we're inhabiting the same reality; would you mind at least trying to justify it?

[Silent Hunter]

What with the rarity of blond hair even among the native population in the Balkans

Unless it's from a bottle, it's generally uncommon across humanity as a whole.

(Says the natural dark blond English man).

[angus]

What with the rarity of blond hair even among the native population in the Balkans

Unless it's from a bottle, it's generally uncommon across humanity as a whole.

(Says the natural dark blond English man).

I don't know whether you have children, but I think it goes deeper than that.  My son doesn't really look enough like me for folks to assume he's mine, I suppose, and he doesn't look enough like my wife for folks to assume he's hers, but when they see the three of us together, you can see the epiphany in their eyes.  Yeah, I can see that.  Even with our own relatives.  (Her hair is jet black.  Mine is yellow--well, sort of; at 46, as you can imagine it's getting whiter by the day--and my son's is sort of a weighted average.  Brownish, I'd say.)  I sympathize with people who might have strangers look askance at them just because their children might not look like themselves.  I do not, however, sympathize with people who blame "the media" for all of society's problems.  And I certainly have never come to the conclusion that the currently morally fashionable constant demand for apologies solves any problems.
 

[ingemann]

Of course, however, the media suddenly dropped the story once it came clear that those two children were in fact Roma... and it will be never spoken of again.

The Daily Fail is still running with the story of the Bulgarian girl over possible child selling, but the Irish one has been dropped.

It is entirely possible for two dark-haired parents to produced a blonde child - aren't the concepts of dominant and recessive genes taught at Leaving Cert level?

Yes it's quite possible the problem was that the parents had several children born over a very short periode (one year 3 of the children was born), so it was clear that something was wrong. The Greek police also tested whether child or parents was related (they was not).

At last this was how they looked

 

While the child's colouring is not impossible, the child do not look like the parent either in facial traits.

So I personal think the Greek police reacted correctly. As for how the media reacted, I think Danish media was relative low key. The British was clearly worse, but honestly with the behaviour of the British media in the last few decades, this don't even reach the top ten or hundred over terrible things they have said or done, especially as there haven't been any anti-Gypsy pogroms as result of this case. Of course in Ireland the poor parents deserve not only a apoligy, but also monetary compensation.

[angus]

 
 

Be careful not to give waltermitty more fodder for his signatures.  He's on some sort of hideous family photo kick just now.

I disagree with the assertion that the police acted correctly.  They weren't even profiling correctly.  They hassled, jailed, and embarrassed innocent people.  The newspapers, at least here, were just doing their jobs.  Moreover, the reporting ultimately led to a reminder to the general public that sometimes cops harass innocent people.  It is never a bad thing to remind the public of this fact. 

Incidentally, that child's coloring is pretty much the same as mine, and her father's is pretty much the same as my father's.  (My paternal grandfather was born in Bulgaria and every Bulgarian I meet looks at me incredulously when they see my last name.  Sometimes they even say, "Well your name is Bulgarian but you don't look Bulgarian.  You look like you should have a German name.")  I didn't think about this growing up, but I imagine that folks probably looked at my father in a weird way when he and I were out and about.  As far as I know, we were never hassled by any authorities, and we did cross many international borders together when I was a child.

[ingemann]

I disagree with the assertion that the police acted correctly.  They weren't even profiling correctly.  They hassled, jailed, and embarrassed innocent people.  The newspapers, at least here, were just doing their jobs.  Moreover, the reporting ultimately led to a reminder to the general public that sometimes cops harass innocent people.  It is never a bad thing to remind the public of this fact. 

Gene test showed that the child was not the parents, they had several other children born over a impossible short period. So it was rather clear that some of the children was not theirs, of course it's only this child, which made into the international media for obvious reasons. So yes if the Greek police had not reacted at that point, they would not have done their job.

[GMantis]

Unless it's from a bottle, it's generally uncommon across humanity as a whole.

(Says the natural dark blond English man).

Yes, but I'm talking about Europe. In this context, blonde hair is rare in the Balkans, especially when compared with northern Europe.

Be careful not to give waltermitty more fodder for his signatures.  He's on some sort of hideous family photo kick just now.

I disagree with the assertion that the police acted correctly.  They weren't even profiling correctly.  They hassled, jailed, and embarrassed innocent people.  The newspapers, at least here, were just doing their jobs.  Moreover, the reporting ultimately led to a reminder to the general public that sometimes cops harass innocent people.  It is never a bad thing to remind the public of this fact. 

Do you mean the Greek police or Irish one? You are correct about the later, but the Greek police was certainly justified, as the people claiming to be the child's parents have obviously committed a crime. Buying children is only slightly less heinous than kidnapping them.
 

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If you had been with your father when meeting Bulgarians, they would probably look even more incredulous, since this kind of skin color is even rarer among Bulgarians than the girl's skin color. I wouldn't be surprised if many assumed a sinister explanation for such a discrepancy. Then again, the family of the girl were apparently well known in their town and never investigated, so maybe it doesn't matter that much.

[angus]

I agree that the girl doesn't "look Bulgarian" (or Greek for that matter.)  I guess this may be more of a European attitude.  We mix it up quite a bit here.  It's not unusual to see brunettes with German names or Blondies with Spanish names or red-haired, freckled people English first names and Italian last names.  As I said, at meetings conferences or in situations where there's an international crowd and everyone has nametags or is identified in some bulletin or program, I am often approached by real Bulgarians who comment on how bizarre it is for me to have a Bulgarian name.  Americans, on the other hand, wouldn't know a Bulgarian name if it came up and bit them on the buttocks, and lots of us have blue eyes and yellow hair even though we might have names that originated in the lands of olives and lemon trees and warm breezes.

I really take more offense at the awkward assumptions of the police than the reporting.  If an American cop detained a black couple solely on the basis of them having a white child, you'd be hearing about protests every night on the news, and rightly so.  Then again, it may be that I'm not aware of some aspect of the reporting that going on elsewhere.  Here, it seems to all be fairly accurate.  The reports, at least in US media that cover international stories, are about how ancient anti-gypsy bigotry is resurfacing in parts of Europe.  This reportage, imho, is public good.

[ingemann]

I agree that the girl doesn't "look Bulgarian" (or Greek for that matter.)  I guess this may be more of a European attitude.  We mix it up quite a bit here.  It's not unusual to see brunettes with German names or Blondies with Spanish names or red-haired, freckled people English first names and Italian last names.  As I said, at meetings conferences or in situations where there's an international crowd and everyone has nametags or is identified in some bulletin or program, I am often approached by real Bulgarians who comment on how bizarre it is for me to have a Bulgarian name.  Americans, on the other hand, wouldn't know a Bulgarian name if it came up and bit them on the buttocks, and lots of us have blue eyes and yellow hair even though we might have names that originated in the lands of olives and lemon trees and warm breezes.

I really take more offense at the awkward assumptions of the police than the reporting.  If an American cop detained a black couple solely on the basis of them having a white child, you'd be hearing about protests every night on the news, and rightly so.  Then again, it may be that I'm not aware of some aspect of the reporting that going on elsewhere.  Here, it seems to all be fairly accurate.  The reports, at least in US media that cover international stories, are about how ancient anti-gypsy bigotry is resurfacing in parts of Europe.  This reportage, imho, is public good.

Maybe you should read what I wrote. This child was one of several (12 I think), which the mother claimed was hers.
so let imagine that American police had a raid at some place, where they found a woman with twelve children, of a age where it was unlikely to impossible they could be hers especially as at least one of the children didn't look like her or the father at all. Later they tested the children and found out at some of them wasn't hers, and this very poor woman admitted to buying at least one child.
Are you claiming that the police in this case would be called out for racism?

[Conflicted Progressive]

As someone who was almost kidnapped by Roma as a young child, NO.

[angus]

Maybe you should read what I wrote....

maybe.

Are you claiming that the police in this case would be called out for racism?

In the case you describe exactly, probably not, but one can never predict these things accurately.  You might wonder about whether a warrant was properly obtained, and how the suspects were profiled in the first place, but generally speaking I'll stipulate if it were a probable cause bust and all this went down, then I would think that the public would not be so sympathetic.

I hadn't read about 12 children, but then the thread was about reporting and reporters and whether they should apologize.  I had actually heard a couple of reports on this, and have read some more since, and from what I am reading the reports do not seem inaccurate and I can think of no reason that any of the writers whose reports I have read should apologize for what they wrote.

Even today, if I do a Google search of "gypsy child thieves" new stories, the first three have the following titles and opening sentences:   

For Roma, discrimination remains the norm
"Historical scapegoats, they suffer from harsh treatment and deep poverty in Europe..."

The grim history of the Roma is no fairy tale
"The reaction to the discovery of a little blonde girl in a travellers' camp illustrates an age-old and shameful persecution of an isolated people..."

Blond Maria is not ‘white’ after all!
"It was the irony of coincidence.  When the picture of the angelic blond, blue-eyed girl in a shabby grey track suit with her fingers blackened from mud was splashed across the front pages of the European press a few days ago, most of us jumped to the same conclusion..."


We could, of course, quibble about the third one, but in all fairness the third one was written by a European writer for a Turkish outlet.  The other two are American writers writing for U.S. outlets.  I really don't see any inaccuracies.  The reporting here seems very sympathetic to the gypsies, and most the stories I've heard on PBS and Public Radio, as well as from US on-line newspapers, point out that anti-Roma discrimination alive and well in Europe.  I don't think these US reporters who cover international news owe anyone any apologies for what they're writing.

While we're at it, about a year ago several US newsweeklies as well as the National Geographic Magazine were doing stories about nouveau riche Roma.  Gaudy palaces and bling were apparently all the rage in several villages in the balkans at that time. 

Here are some images from NGM:







While we cannot defend their tastes, we do apparently admire their new fortunes, and it was then that the lure of gypsy lore became somewhat popular in the US, or saw a resurgence of popularity.  (I think April Wine's "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" was the only other broad-spectrum American popular reference in my lifetime.)  Now, there's a rash of stories on how they have been accused of childsnatching by their European oppressors.  Or so it seems.  Is this not accurate?  If not, do the US international press corps owe us an apology for these inaccuracies? 

[afleitch]

Surprise, Surprise; the blond man in Greece wasn't Ben Needham. I wonder who the gypsies will have 'stolen' next week; Lord Lucan?

[Cory]

Joke poll.