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Peeperkorn
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« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2013, 03:21:12 PM »



Intereconomia and related have been attacking Rajoy since 2004 when they call him "maricomplejines" (Mariano the pussy, very liberal translation)

That was Jiménez Losantos, when he was still in "La Mañana" of La COPE.



Also, funnily enough, in Spain, liberal is a term used by the hard right to refer to themselves. People who are much closer to libertarianism, Thatcherism and/or GOP fanboys tend to classify themselves as liberales.

Yeah, I know. When I was a kid (with Aznar as President) I used to chat in #politica of the irc-hispano (i was even an elected moderator xD). And ALL the fascist creeps of hazteoir et al called themselves "liberales". It was disgusting.
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Nanwe
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2013, 04:03:33 PM »



Intereconomia and related have been attacking Rajoy since 2004 when they call him "maricomplejines" (Mariano the pussy, very liberal translation)

That was Jiménez Losantos, when he was still in "La Mañana" of La COPE.

You don't have to tell me Tongue, my father listened to it regligiously every morning.

But Losantos and Intereconomia are very close, although I'd say Losantos is more of a Spanish nationalist than a hardline rightists such as those in Intereconomia. They'd be closer to Cesar Vidal, I'd say.
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Velasco
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2013, 05:31:00 PM »
« Edited: November 03, 2013, 05:35:13 PM by Velasco »

Jiménez Losantos is very hard right and a Spanish nationalist. César Vidal and Pio Moa are revisionist pseudo-historians (neo Francoist). All of them write in the 'liberal' Libertad Digital . Losantos and Moa were in the far left when they were young, the first was Maoist and the second was in the GRAPO terrorist band. Nowadays they represent in the media the far right and they support PP hard liners such as Mayor Oreja, María San Gil or Esperanza Aguirre.

On a side note, Rosa Díez was acclaimed in the UPyD convention, just finished. "(Rosa) Díez boasted today without half-tones of the voting in the Congress of Deputies last Tuesday that divided PSC and PSC on the right to decide of Catalonia. 'This group of five deputies has taken from the lapel to both principal parties and has achieved that 286 deputies say that the unity of the nation is indissoluble', she cried out". Actually Rubalcaba was thinking to abstain in the voting of the UPyD motion until hours before it was taking place, but he received pressures and changed of opinion in the last moment, as indicates Iñaki Gabilondo. PSC, except Carme Chacón, kept faithful to the previous agreement and abstained. It was PSOE who broke, not the hapless catalan socialists. A victory for Díez, undoubtedly, and a sample of Rubalcaba's weakness not to resist the pressures of outstanding members of his party. Cowardice.

PSOE is going to hold a political conference next weekend, where the Catalan question will be carefully avoided. On July PSOE had a meeting in Granada in which it was approved its proposal of a federal constitutional reform, not without tension between Catalan socialists and other regional leaders. On Constitutional reform Ramón Jáuregui states: "The 2011 defeat demands examination and rectification". "In addition, the world has changed, the left  needs to check its parameters and the problems of the Spanish society are not also those who formed the socialdemocratic projects in the last 35 years. All of that forces PSOE to lead a reformist process in Spain, something similar to what Felipe Gonzalez proposed in 1982". They will be examined new proposals on fiscal and economic policies ( among others, a new tax on wealth, suppression of some tax exemptions and taxes for the banks), 'democratic regeneration' (semi-opened lists, referenda by citizens' initiative...), etcetera. Former IU members -some linked to Gaspar Llamazares- and ex-super judge Baltasar Garzón will take part actively in the conference. They wrote a manifesto or open letter calling for a regeneration in the left. A paragraph as sample:

"Our goal is the defeat of the right, that is taking advantage of the crisis to push to unemployment and marginalization to wide sectors of the society, specially the the most fragile. The young, women, the older than forty five years, as well retired and pensioners, are suffering with cruelty the devastation of the Rajoy government. Together to this conscious deterioration of the social advances, the Executive has left in the ditches of oblivion the victims of the dictatorship and avoids the recovery of our memory, key element for the reunion with our dignity as people. While, the same government protects the interests of the powerful, relying ideologically on the most conservative sectors of the society. Now is urgent and indispensable to revert the destruction of rights that the People's Party is executing across the cuts in wages and benefits, education, health, social services, equality, abortion, etc. To fulfill this goal we all need, with independence of our past of successes and shared mistakes"

http://ep00.epimg.net/descargables/2013/11/02/1e9e88d56cf41e7658c846f9eebec660.pdf

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Nanwe
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2013, 05:45:25 PM »

So Izquierda Abierta is finally slowly drifting away from IU, now controlled once again by the PCE, towards the PSOE?

Also, interesting proposals but I don't trust the PSOE. And the inclusion of Garzón is outright disgusting. I really, really dislike Spain's most overrated and politicized judge. Judges that work diligently and without caring about the cameras (like Alaya and Ruz) should be applauded, but media whores like Garzón should be reprimanded, luckily he has.

Though I'd like to see the supposed reforms in a more clear way when they present them. I'm not a big referendum fan, however.

Also, I love how the PSOE always forgets what it does in government when in opposition, it's not like the policies of Rajoy weren't initiated by Zapatero. As Pedro J. said, quousque tandem abutere, Zapatero, patientia nostra? It's being taken out of context, of course, although the article itself was marvellous just in how good a writer Pedro J. is.
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Velasco
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2013, 06:23:22 PM »

Regardless what you think about super judge Garzón, he was the object of a disgusting vengeance by his peers, plenty of resentment, partisanship and corporate spirit. Alaya, for her part, has a curious sense of political opportunity and she's not better than Garzón in the formal aspects of preliminary investigations. Among mediatic judges, I give more credit to Ruz in what regards working quietly. 

Pedro J is a good writer when he wants, indeed. However, I suspect he's forgetting intentionally some differences between Zapatero and Rajoy. Some measures the latter is adopting, in order to dismantle public education and the National Health System, have an obvious ideological motivation. Zapatero had never gone so far. And it's true, often PP and PSOE forget what both promise before elections.
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Niemeyerite
JulioMadrid
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2013, 06:57:59 PM »

Hi, compañeros!! Now I have some time to read this... I'll say something before I read (and then post my opinions):

-I'll be on the "political conference" of the PSOE. I'm excited to hear what they have to say, specially now that  two people I really like have supported it: that is, Pilar del Río and Baltasar Garzon. I met José Carrillo just a month ago, in the tribute of Gervasio Puerta, the president of th "Association of anti-franquist prisioners", who happened to be my neighbor, too. Carrillo was nice to me and he seemed very left-wing (some students of the Complutense University had told me he wasn't...). He has also supported the Conference. And Carme Chacón is going to be there, too. Even if PSOE has told the media they won't talk about Catalonia... I think they will (and I hope they do, people are begining to understand what Federalism means).

-The last Catalonian poll means that PSC has a lot of room to grow and that they can recover with a new team... Not that I don't like Pere Navarro, his problem is that Catalonians are not eager to give him a chance.

-I'm fully supporting Edu Madina now. I think he's the kind of guy the left needs to win back the Government. Very humble, very prepared, and loquacious. And a "hero" in the sense that he kept fighting after the attempt.

-I don't think Rubalcaba is going to be a candidate in the primaries... I've talked to same close allies of him and they feel the same way. Rumours are that Patxi López will be the establishment pick. I like Patxi too, but right now I'd vote for Madina (I've switched my 1st preference from Biden to Gillibrand, too Tongue, and from PT to PSOL hahaha...).

-Here in Madrid people I talk to (PSOE and IU members) are convinced Tomás Gómez will be the next President, with IU and with or without UPyD. In my town, San Sebastián de los Reyes, we've had a "Citizens Assembly" in which the 3 main parties of the opposition -PSOE, IU, Izquierda Independiente-, many citizens and some other organizations have started to create a common electoral programme for the elections of 2015. We are pioneers on this idea, I think it's a great one! Here you have the links

http://asambleaciudadanasanse.wordpress.com/

http://asambleasanse.foroactivo.com/

The Assembly of the 18 of October was followed by more than 200 people, and we have divided it on groups: Social, Politic and Economics, with some areas of work such as Education, Jobs, Health... I'm going to organize the Education section with a member of PCE-IU. The leader of UPyD in Sanse came to the last meeting (the "Politics" one). He said "we, the parties of the left...".

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Nanwe
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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2013, 07:49:48 PM »

Regardless what you think about super judge Garzón, he was the object of a disgusting vengeance by his peers, plenty of resentment, partisanship and corporate spirit. Alaya, for her part, has a curious sense of political opportunity and she's not better than Garzón in the formal aspects of preliminary investigations. Among mediatic judges, I give more credit to Ruz in what regards working quietly. 

I'd add Grande Marlasca but I haven't heard about him in quite a while.

About Alaya and tbh nowadays I only follow national news and from abroad so I couldn't say about her. I just like the courage to bring down the system.

Which leads me to Garzón. I think that trying to do good for the victims of the war and the post-war is good. Now that does not mean that that condones (imho) the illegal wiring of conversations and in particular all the political positions he has taken over the years. And while he is not the only one (c'mon, the magistratura can't be independent considering the system for appointing the CGPJ or the Supremo or the Constitucional), he clearly is the most outspoken. Interestingly, I'm very conservative when it comes to legal stuff, but well, in any case

Pedro J is a good writer when he wants, indeed. However, I suspect he's forgetting intentionally some differences between Zapatero and Rajoy. Some measures the latter is adopting, in order to dismantle public education and the National Health System, have an obvious ideological motivation. Zapatero had never gone so far. And it's true, often PP and PSOE forget what both promise before elections.

So we agree in pretty much everything except the dismantling thing Tongue

The whole "they are dismanting education" is also used in the right to claim that the PSOE wants to make children dumber so they vote PSOE (oh boy, how many times have I heard that one). The new law is probably never going to be applied and in my opinion it introduces some interesting factors and some bad ones, but I am of the opinion that a reform should be done to move away from comprehensive education and into a more divided education system (à la Germany or NL).

As to the education, while cuts are being considerable, I don't think they are trying to dismantle it. That's something really unfair to say. Even from a purely malicious perspective as to their actions, they'd never dismantle a system that benefits one of their core voters: old people.

Madrid has spearheaded the introduction of private hospitals in the system of public healthcare. It's done in other countries. I don't think it's necessary as our current system is fairly good as it is, pretty efficient considering how some CCAA are ridiculously small. But if they can prove it works better, I'm ok with it. Since so far no one has said anything in favour nor against with hard facts (or I haven't seen them), I'm interested in seeing what'll happen.

And now. I swear tomorrow I'll put up some rough guideline to my messy, "transversal" (not a UPyD reference, I swear) mind.

Also Julio, interesting. But are there still people named Gervasio? Surprise
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Velasco
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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2013, 05:20:26 AM »

I didn't study laws and I can't say if phone tapping was correct from a legal point of view. If I remember well, the Public Prosecutor's Office said that it was. Anyway, I suspect the main problem with the super judge were his political stances and the overwhelming conservatism of our judiciary. For Pedro J and right-wing media Garzón was a hero when he investigated GAL, but rather annoying when he sought for Pinochet's extradition or prosecuted PP's corruption in Valencia and Madrid. Double standard, as usual.

The whole "they are dismantling education" is also used in the right to claim that the PSOE wants to make children dumber so they vote PSOE (oh boy, how many times have I heard that one). The new law is probably never going to be applied and in my opinion it introduces some interesting factors and some bad ones, but I am of the opinion that a reform should be done to move away from comprehensive education and into a more divided education system (à la Germany or NL).

As to the education, while cuts are being considerable, I don't think they are trying to dismantle it. That's something really unfair to say. Even from a purely malicious perspective as to their actions, they'd never dismantle a system that benefits one of their core voters: old people.

PSOE and PP were on the edge of reaching an agreement on education policies when Ángel Gabilondo was the minister. PP chose to break negotiations for electioneering reasons (and many suspect because of its contra-reformist agenda). Everybody, even from subsidized private schools ("escuelas concertadas") criticize the cruelty of Wert's proposals on final examinations. Not to mention heavy rises in tuition fees and in the ratio of pupils per classroom and ideological measures such as the reintroduction of religion in the curriculum, attacks on Catalan as the vehicle language in education (in spite of the right's claims, it works well and people there is overwhelmingly bilingual, but Wert wants to "hispanicize" everybody) and public funds for schools that segregate by sex. PP's policies always tend to increase subsidies for private schools, withdrawing funds from the public.

I've read little on Wert's projects for professional training and more about his idea of "educational routings". Some people think that a 13 year old kid is too young to choose his (her) vital project. A system that doesn't allow you to change your route may be unfair. In Germany professional training works pretty well and many would want to import some elements of the system. However, its main disadvantage is that it doesn't favour social mobility, because people is professionally orientated from early dates. Anyway, educational projects need funds, political agreement and dialog with fathers, teachers and all the educational community. It's impossible to argue in favour of Wert's ability to negotiate, disposal to dialog or even emotional intelligence. Funds are nonexistent.

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You don't need the Madrid 'experiment' to see what happens. 'Experimental' hospitals with private management failed miserably in Valencia (search for 'Alzira model'). Hospitals have losses, financed by taxpayers. Also, experiments are rather silly when you have a system that works. The clever thing is maintaining the model and correcting the flaws. Spain is the OECD country with the lowest health spending and still our health system is reasonably -and sometimes remarkably- good. But our government and conservatives talk about "inefficiency". Unless they are considering how efficiently Thatcher destroyed the British NHS or the money is wasted in Valencia. It must be a reflex action. Many in PP dream with Chile.
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Nanwe
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« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2013, 05:58:14 AM »

I didn't study laws and I can't say if phone tapping was correct from a legal point of view. If I remember well, the Public Prosecutor's Office said that it was. Anyway, I suspect the main problem with the super judge were his political stances and the overwhelming conservatism of our judiciary. For Pedro J and right-wing media Garzón was a hero when he investigated GAL, but rather annoying when he sought for Pinochet's extradition or prosecuted PP's corruption in Valencia and Madrid. Double standard, as usual.

Phone tapping is allowed provided that you have authorization and you have clear proof as to why you need it.
Double standards in the press are el pan nuestro de cada día, but it's true. Some however say that Garzon acted against PSOE due to spite that he wasn't named VP by Gonzalez in 1993 (Or was it 1989?).

Funny thing, I don't see as bad having a conservative judiciary. It's natural they are closed class, one that to enter requires a large time of study, something that not everyone can afford and that even if you can, judges tend to have a lofty living, so it's natural that judges tend to be to the right.

As someone who would't mind a harsher judicial system and strict adherence to the law's wording, I actually don't mind it. But if it gets in the way of judicial autonomy and independence, then it's a problem.

I've read little on Wert's projects for professional training and more about his idea of "educational routings". Some people think that a 13 year old kid is too young to choose his (her) vital project. A system that doesn't allow you to change your route may be unfair. In Germany professional training works pretty well and many would want to import some elements of the system. However, its main disadvantage is that it doesn't favour social mobility, because people is professionally orientated from early dates. .

Formacion profesional is very neglected in our system, it might have been actually been better seen during Franco what with the technical universities and what not. But it needs to be revamped and not have the negative connotation it has. Otherwise we will continue to have the huge problem of having on the one hand a very (perhaps even over-)prepared workforce who went to university (even if Spanish universities are bad) and people who only finished ESO and as a result are a very unskilled workforce.

The German system does allow to change paths though. I don't see it bad to elect a path when you are 12 or 13 (probably 13 is better), most teachers already know if a student is a good one, a regular one or a burden on the rest of the class by this time and I think that it would be best then to try and match people's abilities to their educational possibilities. I have been in too many classes where I got bored as hell because the teacher had to explain over and over again the same thing to a single person who would be best described as a troublemaker.

Actually, perhaps it'd be a good idea to start university not at 18, but 19.

By preparing people better for the work environment, I'd argue it increases social mobility. Spain has a large problem of a ever-large unemployment rate due to unprepared workers on the one hand and over-prepared on the other.

Anyway, educational projects need funds, political agreement and dialog with fathers, teachers and all the educational community. It's impossible to argue in favour of Wert's ability to negotiate, disposal to dialog or even emotional intelligence. Funds are nonexistent

No, he really does not know the word 'to negotiate'. He knows to go forward pushing everyone and then being blocked. But in any case, it's not like the law will become effective ever. Its implementation's start has already been postponed by the government and many CCAA have concern about it, Catalonia the most (although I disagree with the inmersión system).

You don't need the Madrid 'experiment' to see what happens. 'Experimental' hospitals with private management failed miserably in Valencia (search for 'Alzira model'). Hospitals have losses, financed by taxpayers. Also, experiments are rather silly when you have a system that works. The clever thing is maintaining the model and correcting the flaws. Spain is the OECD country with the lowest health spending and still our health system is reasonably -and sometimes remarkably- good. But our government and conservatives talk about "inefficiency". Unless they are considering how efficiently Thatcher destroyed the British NHS or the money is wasted in Valencia. It must be a reflex action. Many in PP dream with Chile.

Reading on the Alzira model atm. 43 pages to go. So I'll comment later on. As I said I've never had a problem with the current system. Though, truth be told, I've always gone to private clinics, so I don't know much about how the public system works.
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Nanwe
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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2013, 09:15:00 AM »

The next CIS poll should come soon. In the meantime, a poll from La Razón for the European elections next year:

-PP: 32% - 19/20 seats (-3/-4)
-PSOE: 27,9% - 16/17 seats (-4/-5)
-La izquierda: 12,7% - 7/8 seats (+5/+6)
-UPyD: 8,9% - 5/6 seats (+4/+5)
-CEU: 5% - 2/3 seats (=/+1)
-EdP-V: 4,8% - 2/3 seats (+1/+2)
-EQUO (plus Compromis and CHA): 2,8% - 1/2 seats (+1/+2)

With an estimated turnout of 41% (-3%).

I'd say that given that this is a La Razón poll, it seems balanced enough.

And for crazy polls:
Made by GEPS and reported by El Confidencial and El Plural with 1600 or so people answering.
It gives a prediction of:

PSOE: 35%
PP: 28%
IU: 13%
UPyD: 7%

Julio, so I was reading and is the PSOE going to put in the program the desire to break off the concordat with the Holy See?
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Velasco
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« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2013, 04:57:51 PM »


Phone tapping is allowed provided that you have authorization and you have clear proof as to why you need it.

Funny thing, I don't see as bad having a conservative judiciary. It's natural they are closed class, one that to enter requires a large time of study, something that not everyone can afford and that even if you can, judges tend to have a lofty living, so it's natural that judges tend to be to the right.

As someone who would't mind a harsher judicial system and strict adherence to the law's wording, I actually don't mind it. But if it gets in the way of judicial autonomy and independence, then it's a problem.

I understand the reasons why most of the judges tend to be conservative. Anyway,
plurality is preferable and judges have the duty of being impartial and independent. This is not the case in our judicial system. As for Garzón, even if he committed an irregularity (which is debatable for some), his peers went further and sentenced that he committed prevarication (perversion of the course of justice). This is the biggest dishonour for a judge. Garzón was investigating the Gürtel case, which affected PP, and it was widely known that many in the judiciary (and outside) hated the controversial super judge. Garzón was previously accused of the same fault by a fascist organization called Manos Limpias because of his investigations on Franco's crimes. Certain judge Varela was very excited with the case and even gave advice to the plaintiffs. In parallel, a jury absolved Francisco Camps in a court in Valencia presided by a friend of the former regional PM. Many people felt puzzled, given the evidences against the accused. With actions like those, it's hard to defend the reputation of our judicial system.

Judge Castro seized duke and duchess of Palma's mansion in Barcelona. The duchess is Princess Cristina de Borbón, the daughter of king Juan Carlos. The duke, Iñaki Urdangarín is involved in a corruption scandal known as Nóos case. Cristina's husband is accused of having siphoned off millions of euros of public funds. The case affects regional governments in Valencia and the Balearic Islands.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/11/04/inenglish/1383575370_674513.html

Did you read that the Ministry of Education withdrew scholarships for most of the students in the Erasmus exchange programme?
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Nanwe
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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2013, 05:47:59 PM »

Yes, indeed, it is a really dick move to do while many are abroad. I was actually talking to a friend who's doing right now her Erasmus in Heidelberg, you can imagine how much she loves it. Of course, she was also robbed off her excelence aid). Luckily, she's not one of the people who'll be forced to return to Spain ASAP, but those who have to, I suppose they can try to challenge it on the basis of legal certainty as the law clearly breaks the principle of non-retroactivity, but we'll see.

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Nanwe
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« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2013, 08:14:06 AM »

Habemus CIS

Link

And now to the important/interesting part of the report.

Question 17

How do you rate the PP policy as a whole?

Very Good ------> 0.4%
Good ------------> 5.3%
Regular ---------> 22.7%
Bad --------------> 29.6%
Very Bad --------> 39.8%
Doesn't Know --> 1.3%
Doesn't Answer > 0.9%

Question 18

How do you rate the PSOE's job as the opposition?

Very Good ------> 0.1%
Good ------------> 2.8%
Regular ---------> 23.6%
Bad --------------> 35.6%
Very Bad --------> 34.9%
Doesn't Know --> 2.1%
Doesn't Answer > 0.9%

Question 20

Does the PM, Mariano Rajoy inspire you confidence?

Lots of confidence: 1.8%
Yes: 8.9%
Somewhat: 26.6%
No confidence at all: 61.2%
Doesn't Know: 1.2%
Doesn't Answer: 0.4%

Question 21

Does the leader of the Opposition, Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba inspire you confidence?

Lots of confidence: 0.7%
Yes: 6.3%
Somewhat: 35.7%
No confidence at all: 55.4%
Doesn't Know: 1.7%
Doesn't Answer: 0.3%

Question 25

Which one of the following territorial organization models do you prefer?

A state with a single, central government and no autonomous regions: 21.8%
A state in which the autonomous regions are less autonomous: 12.0%
A state with the autonomous regions as it stands today: 34.2%
A state in which the autonomous regions are more autonomous: 12.2%
A state that would recognize the autonomous regions the right of becoming independent states: 9.7%
Doesn't know: 8.1
Doesn't answer: 2.0

Question 22: [Direct vote intention]

PP: 11.4
PSOE: 13.0
IU (ICV in Catalonia): 8.5
UPyD: 4.8
CiU: 1.1
Amaiur: .6
PNV: .5
ERC: 2.0
BNG: .2
CC: .4
Compromís-Equo: .4
Geroa Bai: .0
UPN: .1
Other parties: 3.5
Blank vote: 7.2
Wouldn't vote: 22.0
Doesn't know yet: 21.5
Doesn't answer: 2.6

So, as a result of this, the polling atm stands at:

PP: 34% (-10.6%) [but better than in July]
PSOE: 26.8% -(2.1%)
IU: 11.5% (+4.6%)
UPyD: 7.7% (+3.1%) [but El País says it's at 8.8%] (decrease from last polling)
CiU: 2.9% (-1.3%)
ERC: 2.5% (+1.4%)
Amaiur: 1.2% (-0.2%)
PNV: 1.2% (-0.1%)
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Peeperkorn
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« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2013, 01:08:11 PM »

PP still ahead, words fail me.
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Nanwe
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« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2013, 03:12:27 PM »


PP is always going to be ahead. They're always going to get at the very least the support of a quarter of all Spaniards, the techo de Fraga, hard right people who are post-Francoists and would never dare to stop voting PP because they feel besieged by the left (so they must always vote, because it's left-wing people the ones who abstain) and because the PP is the only right-wing country in Spain. Doesn't matter if they agree that the PP is doing things right or not.
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« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2013, 02:14:04 PM »

In the direct vote figure, PP is only ahead among the older than 65. In some age groups PP is coming third behind IU. Of course that's not conclusive, because it's just declared vote and people answering "doesn't know yet" wins in that category.
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JulioMadrid
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« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2013, 09:08:07 PM »
« Edited: November 07, 2013, 09:18:12 PM by JulioMadrid »

I don't feel confortable discussing Spanish politics... in English.

-About the CIS: LOL. The people who "cooked" the survey should go to "Master Chef".

-About Wert: well, apart from the fact he's a bad person (that's a fact) he should have resigned the other day. What an humillation for him, and what a pain for many Spanish students... You've said you don't think he's trying to dismantle our Education System, Nanwe. I hope I could agree with you, but he's the most ideology hack person I've seen in my life. I have suffered that dismantle you think doesn't exist, both in the High School and the University. Oh, come on, his new lae, that monstruosity called "LOMCE" will only bring tension and more tension until it gets revoked in 2015-2016. But the cuts he's already made, with the collaboration of our "consejera" of Education of Madrid, Lucía Figar... What a pain for the students, the teachers and the parents. Let me put an example: when I was in "2º de Bachillerato" (last year in the High School, very important considering that you have "Selectividad" to enter the University), my Economics teacher was hired the second week of October. My History and Geography (two subjects, same teacher) teacher only came the 3rd week of October. The year begins the 2nd week of september. Not only that, but the optional subject I chose was "Fundamentos de Administración". My teacher was going to be the same person who taught Economics, so until October I had no classes... But then, the "Consejería" decided that the High School couldn't afford the subject, so they decided to put me on "English extension". I was there until November, but I was told by then that we had to choose betwen "Psychology" and "French". Finally, in November, I chose French. And many cuts came as the year passed... In the University things, of course, didn't get better. We have to pay almost 2.000€ (THANK YOU, AGUIRRE) and this jerk, Wert, is making it very difficult for students whose parents don't have tons of money continue studying if they don't get more than a 6,5/10 (in my case, I have the money and good marks, but I have more than one, in fact more than 3 friends who can't afford going to University without the grant, and are looking for a job they are not going to find). And the situation in Communities where they talk yet another language, the situation is worse: just look what happened in Balears (this is more related to Bauzá than to Wert "it"self). When people tell me about "PPSOE" I always answer the same: just look, with ZP we had Ángel Gabilondo, with Rajoy we have José Ignacio Wert (Francisco Franco for those who believe in reincarnation).
And, are you seriously telling me that we are going to start segregating CHILDREN?
Even his brother is against his policies!!

http://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/ley-afecta-modelo-linguistico_0_79092567.html

http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/2013/05/07/actualidad/1367927212_133455.html

-About the "externalization" (PRIVATIZATION) of hospitals. I know this well because I live in a town where we have one of these hospitals... The Infanta Sofía. Well, what mr. Lasquetty is doing here should be considered a crime. What an outrage!! He's sold our Hopsital to a company of Puerto Rico, HIMA San Pablo, which doesn't have the money they have requested them and they want to "attract Morrocan health tourism" in order to take advantadge of the Hospital.. Do you know we, citizens of the towns around Madrid, have a price? The Community of Madrid will pay these companies about 480€ per citizen... I had the opoortunity to talk to the Socialist member of the Madrid Assambly José Manuel Freire about this. Selling hospitals = Killing people. It may sound to exaggerated, but it isn't.

http://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/turismo-sanitario-expansion-HIMA-San-Pablo_0_166583469.html

http://psoesanse.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=218:el-psoe-de-sanse-tacha-de-indecente-el-silencio-del-alcalde-ante-los-planes-de-convertir-nuestro-hospital-en-un-hotel-sanitario-especializado-en-clientes-marroquies&catid=87&Itemid=577

-About people named Gervasio. The man was about 85 years old. I think he was the last Gervasio Tongue.

-About the Concordate: as soon as PP loses it's absolute majority, I think it's necessary to renegotiate it. When Rubalcaba wanted to "break it" we had a different situation with a very different Pope. I, as an atheist and progressive person, think we need to break it now (Wert is using it to put Religion EVERYWHERE, in fact), bu I think Pope Francis is reasonable enough we can improve our relationships with the Church. Wasn't him the one who said we need a secular State? Tongue Rubalcaba is just trying to get back some left-wingers like me. I don't think that's the right path (what he has to do is to go as soon as possible), but certainly it helps with the Socialist base.
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Peeperkorn
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« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2013, 04:40:20 AM »
« Edited: November 09, 2013, 04:42:20 AM by Mynheer Peeperkorn »

I don't feel confortable discussing Spanish politics... in English.

The same happens to me when I need to explain something concerning Latin America but: "Adonde fueres, haz lo que vieres"; y hablar en otro idioma en un foro donde todos utilizan el inglés sería de muy mal gusto y de muy mala leche, además de levantar suspicacias.

--

I love Wert. "Now the classrooms will have more students so they can improve mingling". You need cojones to officially say such a thing and don't give a fink of what people would say about such a lie. It's like Andrea Fabra shouting "¡Qué se jodan!" ("Fink you!") in the congress after the cuts of wealthfare for the unemployed.

The PP is probably the most corrupt and evil political party in Europe right now and it's a shame that a good part of Spaniards would vote for them again.



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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2013, 10:42:33 AM »

I don't feel comfortable discussing Spanish politics... in English.

The same happens to me when I need to explain something concerning Latin America but: "Adonde fueres, haz lo que vieres"; y hablar en otro idioma en un foro donde todos utilizan el inglés sería de muy mal gusto y de muy mala leche, además de levantar suspicacias.

Es cierto que sería levantar sospechas. Creo que todos somos sospechosos cuando t_host1 escribe en algo que no sea Inglés.
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2013, 12:05:41 PM »

I don't feel comfortable discussing Spanish politics... in English.

The same happens to me when I need to explain something concerning Latin America but: "Adonde fueres, haz lo que vieres"; y hablar en otro idioma en un foro donde todos utilizan el inglés sería de muy mal gusto y de muy mala leche, además de levantar suspicacias.

Es cierto que sería levantar sospechas. Creo que todos somos sospechosos cuando t_host1 escribe en algo que no sea Inglés.

Levantaría sospechas (más que suspicacias, eso siempre que escribe un no-estadounidense jajaja), seguro. Obama tendría el ojo puesto en esta discusión si continuáramos escribiendo en castellano...

BTW, I really don't think PP is going to win the next GE. PSOE will recover after this "Political Conference" for sure. We will know when the primaries will be held in December (and only 10,000 signatures will be needed to run, not 20,000 (10% of the militancy)!!
And I'll have the oportunity to meet Edu Madina next month, too, he's coming to my town to talk about "democracy". Do you want me to ask him anything??








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Velasco
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« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2013, 12:22:51 PM »

The PP is probably the most corrupt and evil political party in Europe right now.

This is a hyperbole, isn't it? We have plenty of evil right-wing parties in Europe and corruption scandals in other countries.

I really don't think PP is going to win the next GE. PSOE will recover after this "Political Conference" for sure.

I don't want to cool your enthusiasm, but the Socialists have a long way to go and not all the signs from the political conference are positive.
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2013, 02:14:18 PM »

The PP is probably the most corrupt and evil political party in Europe right now.

This is a hyperbole, isn't it? We have plenty of evil right-wing parties in Europe and corruption scandals in other countries.

I really don't think PP is going to win the next GE. PSOE will recover after this "Political Conference" for sure.

I don't want to cool your enthusiasm, but the Socialists have a long way to go and not all the signs from the political conference are positive.


I am not saying this Conference will solve things within the PSOE. What I think is that people are ready to vote PSOE... With primaries probably happening in a year and fresh faces and ideas, I think we can get to 33-35% again, and that can be enough to win. And I believe IU will start bleeding, the party is such a mess right now. They'll have a hard time explaining why they don't want primaries. And, finally, I'm almost sure we'll have a Basque candidate: one who defeated the "devil" Ibarretxe and the other one is an ETA victim. I think the 2nd helps more, but the first is quite a achievement, too!
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2013, 02:18:29 PM »

They could start by thinking about how they might tackle (or at least ameliorate) systemic social problems next time they're in power, rather than waste their time on useless gesture politics.
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2013, 03:33:05 PM »

They could start by thinking about how they might tackle (or at least ameliorate) systemic social problems next time they're in power, rather than waste their time on useless gesture politics.

Hopefully. That's why I think the best possible Government would be a PSOE+IU Coalition 'a la andaluza'.
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Nanwe
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2013, 03:53:36 PM »
« Edited: November 09, 2013, 04:01:11 PM by Nanwe »

They could start by thinking about how they might tackle (or at least ameliorate) systemic social problems next time they're in power, rather than waste their time on useless gesture politics.

Hopefully. That's why I think the best possible Government would be a PSOE+IU Coalition 'a la andaluza'.

Not that I was planning on coming back to Spain for a while (for a long period of time, I mean) but that possibility really, really scares me. And I fear that IU is too complacent when in government with PSOE (see Andalucia) in particular to tackle political issues (excluding socio-economic, so it's political in a more concrete way).

I'd prefer some post-election chaos (no one being able to have an absolute majority nor a minority govt with nationalist support à la '93,'96,'04,'08) followed by a PP-PSOE grand coalition. This might be a huge disaster (so making way for a renewd political scene) or a good government as both parties have to act responsibly and both would check each other while finally ending the two-party system by not being able to use polarizing "no, you, no you" speeches which is 80-90% of electoral discourse. [Yes, I am a boring moderate hero Tongue]

EDIT: I think it's going to be difficult to see the PSOE mover left quickly, except rhetoric-wise.The CIS showed something interesting, but well known since the 80s, the PSOE attracts people who identify in all political positions, they even have voters who identify as far-right, unlike the PP which barely has any voters beyond the most moderate centre-left (4 in a scale of 0 to 10). As a result, traditionally the PSOE has always pandered to the social liberal franquista sociologicamente (outdated expression, but you know what I mean?) urban middle class that is, eminently centrist (both in a modern and a UCD meaning) which basically means the PSOE can never shift too much to the left as they still need these voters to win.

IF they did shift considerably to the left, the PSOE would abandon its pretensions of being a big tent for all Spaniards, which, from my own personal understanding of democracy, would be a good thing by making the PSOE a representative exclusively of the centre-left. But that would reduce their voters share to 20-25% while leaving a huge space in the middle for liberal-centrist voters to adhere to the PP (à la '96 or '00) or the creation of a new centrist party in the middle (which I'm not altogether sure UPyD could fill, as it's more of a anti-nationalist centre-left party than an actual centrist party).

So, did my analysis make sense?
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