Is Cohabitation Immoral?

[DC Al Fine]

No, but I can tell you from personal experience that it leads to many dramatic problems couples can avoid if they wait until they're married to live together. It also devalues the marriage which becomes simply something that happens throughout your history of living together rather than the start of your life together. Many relationships where couples live together before marriage end prematurely. This happens in marriage too, but at least married couples get that far.

Please elaborate on your points, because right now, it doesn't make that much sense.

How can cohabiting devalue your marriage? If you realize too late that your marriage doesn't work and it ends in divorce, wouldn't that devalue it far more than cohabitation beforehand?

Yes, many relationships that involve cohabitation before marriage end prematurely, but many also last a long time and result in marriage. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Also, if you have any statistics that support your claim, please show them.

I'm glad you acknowledge that marriages can end prematurely (ie. in divorce), but I still don't understand why that's better than cohabiting beforehand. Why would divorce be better than cohabiting?

Ask and ye shall receive



The usual caveats about correlation apply.

[barfbag]

No, but I can tell you from personal experience that it leads to many dramatic problems couples can avoid if they wait until they're married to live together. It also devalues the marriage which becomes simply something that happens throughout your history of living together rather than the start of your life together. Many relationships where couples live together before marriage end prematurely. This happens in marriage too, but at least married couples get that far.

Please elaborate on your points, because right now, it doesn't make that much sense.

How can cohabiting devalue your marriage? If you realize too late that your marriage doesn't work and it ends in divorce, wouldn't that devalue it far more than cohabitation beforehand?

Yes, many relationships that involve cohabitation before marriage end prematurely, but many also last a long time and result in marriage. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Also, if you have any statistics that support your claim, please show them.

I'm glad you acknowledge that marriages can end prematurely (ie. in divorce), but I still don't understand why that's better than cohabiting beforehand. Why would divorce be better than cohabiting?

Ask and ye shall receive



The usual caveats about correlation apply.

It looks like the cohabitors don't make it as long. I knew it.

[DC Al Fine]

Relevant and from the same study



Sexual compatibility problems my ass.

[bedstuy]

I don't think divorce/ lack of divorce is the best metric for whether a marriage is successful.

There are also alternate explanations for those statistics.  First, people who abstain until marriage are generally less attractive.  They have to stay married because they don't have other options.  Second, people who abstain until marriage are more willing to stay in a horrible marriage.  Staying in a horrible marriage is worse than divorce. 

Relevant and from the same study



Sexual compatibility problems my ass.

I've had that problem too...

[morgieb]

Of course not (this isn't 1700)

[Link]

Relevant and from the same study



Sexual compatibility problems my ass.

I can tell you women very greatly in how good they are in bed.  And some of that does not seem to be teachable.  The variance is so much there is no way I would get married before shopping around and there is no way I would marry someone I didn't sleep with before marrying them.  The point is not to find the craziest girl in bed, because if they are crazy in bed they tend to be crazy out of bed.  The point is to find an acceptable balance.

On the other hand ignorance is bliss.  So I suppose if you are both virgins you won't know any better.  I have always suspected that is why premarital sex and adultery and almost universally frowned upon by major religions.  It does make society a bit more stable.

[DC Al Fine]

I don't think divorce/ lack of divorce is the best metric for whether a marriage is successful.

Fair enough

First, people who abstain until marriage are generally less attractive.

Cite?

They have to stay married because they don't have other options. 

Cite?

Second, people who abstain until marriage are more willing to stay in a horrible marriage. 

Probably true, they do have a negative attitude towards divorce.

Staying in a horrible marriage is worse than divorce. 

Really depends on how you define "horrible". Horrible can mean a lot of things from "We don't get along very well" to "I get beaten daily". In the latter case, yeah divorce is better, but I'd suggest that in the former case the effects of divorce would be worse than sticking the marriage out, since divorce has major adverse affects on finances/children and marriages can and do get mended.

[DC Al Fine]

On the other hand ignorance is bliss.  So I suppose if you are both virgins you won't know any better.  I have always suspected that is why premarital sex and adultery and almost universally frowned upon by major religions.  It does make society a bit more stable.

I tend to agree. Bed hopping does not a healthy society make.

[bedstuy]

First, people who abstain until marriage are generally less attractive.

Cite?

They have to stay married because they don't have other options.

Cite?

I'm not citing any empirical data.  I'm just using my knowledge of the world and deductive reasoning. 

Think about this:  People have conscious explanations for their behavior.  I don't steal because it's wrong and the Bible says so, for example.  Easy to say when there are external reasons not to steal like potential punishment or not knowing how to pick a lock.  But, what if that person had tons of easy opportunities every day to steal without any chance of getting caught.  You better believe they're more likely to steal. 

The same goes for sex.  Some people have tons of opportunities to have sex with someone they find attractive.  Take a high SES status, attractive white man living in Manhattan as an example.  They have millions of options.  I bet you that they aren't waiting until marriage.  In contrast, take a poor, ugly, Mexican-American man from Yuma, Arizona.  Not much of a singles scene there and most of the single American women aren't looking for a poor, ugly Mexican dude.  Potentially, he's going to abstain from sex by default.

Then, imagine that both men are married.  Is the guy who found the one woman in Yuma willing to settle for him going to get divorced?  Who has more options to cheat?  Who has the potential to trade up to a more compatible wife? 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There are also alternate explanations for those statistics.  First, people who abstain until marriage are generally less attractive.  They have to stay married because they don't have other options.  Second, people who abstain until marriage are more willing to stay in a horrible marriage.  Staying in a horrible marriage is worse than divorce. 

I haven't such a load of BS since last year when Republicans were trying to explain why the Romney landslide didn't happen.

[opebo]

No, but I can tell you from personal experience that it leads to many dramatic problems couples can avoid if they wait until they're married to live together. It also devalues the marriage which becomes simply something that happens throughout your history of living together rather than the start of your life together. Many relationships where couples live together before marriage end prematurely. This happens in marriage too, but at least married couples get that far.

Please elaborate on your points, because right now, it doesn't make that much sense.

How can cohabiting devalue your marriage? If you realize too late that your marriage doesn't work and it ends in divorce, wouldn't that devalue it far more than cohabitation beforehand?

Yes, many relationships that involve cohabitation before marriage end prematurely, but many also last a long time and result in marriage. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Also, if you have any statistics that support your claim, please show them.

I'm glad you acknowledge that marriages can end prematurely (ie. in divorce), but I still don't understand why that's better than cohabiting beforehand. Why would divorce be better than cohabiting?

Ask and ye shall receive



The usual caveats about correlation apply.

It looks like the cohabitors don't make it as long. I knew it.

Yeah but that's just because the non-cohabitors are generally so nerdy, fat, and unattractive that nobody decent would have them - thus nothing to lure them out of a marriage once they settle for another boring fatty.

[Lief 🗽]

Breaking: People who don't believe in cohabitation also don't believe in divorce.

Sound the Drudge sirens!

[barfbag]

No, but I can tell you from personal experience that it leads to many dramatic problems couples can avoid if they wait until they're married to live together. It also devalues the marriage which becomes simply something that happens throughout your history of living together rather than the start of your life together. Many relationships where couples live together before marriage end prematurely. This happens in marriage too, but at least married couples get that far.

Please elaborate on your points, because right now, it doesn't make that much sense.

How can cohabiting devalue your marriage? If you realize too late that your marriage doesn't work and it ends in divorce, wouldn't that devalue it far more than cohabitation beforehand?

Yes, many relationships that involve cohabitation before marriage end prematurely, but many also last a long time and result in marriage. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Also, if you have any statistics that support your claim, please show them.

I'm glad you acknowledge that marriages can end prematurely (ie. in divorce), but I still don't understand why that's better than cohabiting beforehand. Why would divorce be better than cohabiting?

Ask and ye shall receive



The usual caveats about correlation apply.

It looks like the cohabitors don't make it as long. I knew it.

Yeah but that's just because the non-cohabitors are generally so nerdy, fat, and unattractive that nobody decent would have them - thus nothing to lure them out of a marriage once they settle for another boring fatty.

I reported you but I'm not sure if you got in trouble. Do you have any statistics to back up your fat, nerdy claims?

[Leftbehind]

It seems to me the same people who believe cohabitation to be immoral would stick with a loveless marriage just for the sake of it, whilst most others would consider divorce preferable to that. My grandparents were the former (and nothing to celebrate) and my parents the latter.

[Sopranos Republican]

The idea that, five years into the 21st century, there was still one third of the voters who answered yes, scares the sh*t out of me.

[DINGO Joe]

Personally, cohabitation wasn't as immoral as I hoped it would be.

[Link]

The idea that, five years into the 21st century, there was still one third of the voters who answered yes, scares the sh*t out of me.

Lol!  Wut?

So if you brought a girl home who had live out of wedlock with some other dude for three years and your mother said she frowned upon that type of behavior it would "scare the sh*t" out of you?

My advice?  Grow a pair.  Newsflash, in life sometimes you encounter people who disagree with you.

[Torie]

I try not to do things I think are "evil." No!

[Indy Texas]

The idea that, five years into the 21st century, there was still one third of the voters who answered yes, scares the sh*t out of me.

Lol!  Wut?

So if you brought a girl home who had live out of wedlock with some other dude for three years and your mother said she frowned upon that type of behavior it would "scare the sh*t" out of you?

My advice?  Grow a pair.  Newsflash, in life sometimes you encounter people who disagree with you.

What reasonable person would disapprove of people in a relationship that lasted three years deciding to live together? She wouldn't have lived with "some other dude" for that long unless it was a serious relationship or a very close gay roommate.

[DC Al Fine]

The idea that, five years into the 21st century, there was still one third of the voters who answered yes, scares the sh*t out of me.

Lol!  Wut?

So if you brought a girl home who had live out of wedlock with some other dude for three years and your mother said she frowned upon that type of behavior it would "scare the sh*t" out of you?

My advice?  Grow a pair.  Newsflash, in life sometimes you encounter people who disagree with you.

What reasonable person would disapprove of people in a relationship that lasted three years deciding to live together? She wouldn't have lived with "some other dude" for that long unless it was a serious relationship or a very close gay roommate.

That's got nothing to do with Link's post (who supports cohabitation IIRC). Antonio et al said that it's "scares the sh*t out of me" that so many people think it's immoral. Now I enjoy making people crap themselves with my mind as much as the next guy, but this is a bit much.

People have views that other people think is absurd. There's no reason to reach for the fainting couch when someone merely disapproves of a behavior.

[Link]

That's got nothing to do with Link's post (who supports cohabitation IIRC). Antonio et al said that it's "scares the sh*t out of me" that so many people think it's immoral. Now I enjoy making people crap themselves with my mind as much as the next guy, but this is a bit much.

People have views that other people think is absurd. There's no reason to reach for the fainting couch when someone merely disapproves of a behavior.

I don't condone nor engage in cohabitation, but that is immaterial.  I have my own personal code of conduct that I do not impose on other people.  My views on cohabitation which I have never discussed with anyone other than people I am dating or close friends should not "scare the sh*t" out of anyone.

This forum does not represent broader reality.  It's primarily a meeting place for adolescents to engage in group think.  If forum members sat down and had a conversation with their mother, aunts, and grandmothers I'm pretty sure they would find a large number of people in their families that do not condone cohabitation.  I personally can't think of any female in my family regardless of age who has or would do something like that.

[Leftbehind]

This forum does not represent broader reality.  It's primarily a meeting place for adolescents to engage in group think.  If forum members sat down and had a conversation with their mother, aunts, and grandmothers I'm pretty sure they would find a large number of people in their families that do not condone cohabitation.  I personally can't think of any female in my family regardless of age who has or would do something like that.

Completely over-egging it now - I'd struggle to name one person in my family who'd have a serious problem with it now my nana's died (and she was an evangelist and, as such, atypical) - and my family aren't all that liberal.

[rejectamenta]

A friend of mine recently purchased a house with his girlfriend who will most likely marry, and while I don't think anyone has a moral problem with it there's very definitely a sentiment of "who the hell does that?" floating around. Even though things will be fine in all likelihood, if they were to break up I couldn't fault anyone (especially a potential future partner) for questioning their competency in long term decision making and priority setting afterwards. In that sense I get Link's point, though I don't see how something so impermanent as modern marriage would somehow make this scenario "better."

I understand the desire to erase these stigmas, yet who among you would enter a relationship with a single parent fresh out of some other dude/dudette's house with the same optimism as a relationship with a single, childless and financially independent person?

E: To be clear, I take no issue with cohabitation, but it doesn't shock or SCARE (wtf?) me that there are people that take it into heavier consideration when evaluating someone's personal responsibility and whether or not they'd like to take on any of it.

[Leftbehind]

A friend of mine recently purchased a house with his girlfriend who will most likely marry, and while I don't think anyone has a moral problem with it there's very definitely a sentiment of "who the hell does that?" floating around. Even though things will be fine in all likelihood, if they were to break up I couldn't fault anyone (especially a potential future partner) for questioning their competency in long term decision making and priority setting afterwards. In that sense I get Link's point, though I don't see how something so impermanent as modern marriage would somehow make this scenario "better."

I understand the desire to erase these stigmas, yet who among you would enter a relationship with a single parent fresh out of some other dude/dudette's house with the same optimism as a relationship with a single, childless and financially independent person?

E: To be clear, I take no issue with cohabitation, but it doesn't shock or SCARE (wtf?) me that there are people that take it into heavier consideration when evaluating someone's personal responsibility and whether or not they'd like to take on any of it.

I dunno, that sounds like people are questioning it on financial grounds (perceived enormous commitment clashing with a casual setup) rather than morally. If they were renting a flat I bet no-one would think twice.

[Link]

This forum does not represent broader reality.  It's primarily a meeting place for adolescents to engage in group think.  If forum members sat down and had a conversation with their mother, aunts, and grandmothers I'm pretty sure they would find a large number of people in their families that do not condone cohabitation.  I personally can't think of any female in my family regardless of age who has or would do something like that.

Completely over-egging it now - I'd struggle to name one person in my family who'd have a serious problem with it now my nana's died (and she was an evangelist and, as such, atypical) - and my family aren't all that liberal.

I post my caveat about Europe earlier.

Besides I've spent a considerable number of years on the dating scene and with the exception of a few characters in Europe most ladies find it a positive that I have never cohabitated with anyone.

I was speaking about the United States and some places outside of Europe.  Anyway my point was according to Judeo Christian tenets cohabitation is immoral.  There is nothing wrong with that nor is there anything wrong with the fact a lot of people believe in Judeo Christian morality.  It shouldn't "scare the sh*t" out of anyone.

I don't choose my friends or who I vote for based on whether they have cohabitated or not.  Basically it's not something to make a big deal about.  I mean I know premarital sex is immoral yet I still engage in it.  Just because I'm doing something immoral doesn't mean I have to go out and change scripture just to get to sleep at night.  People need to man up and just be straight forward with themselves.  Of course if you don't have Judeo Christian beliefs that's okay too.  A number of my friends are atheists.