Best* dictator** of the 20th century

[dead0man]

(take 2)

* "best" defined however you want
**please don't turn into a bitch if you don't think a named person (by me or by others) wasn't a dictator.  Just explain why you don't think they are.  I understand some of the listed people might not be a perfect definition of what a dictator is.


So, vote for, lets say, 7, the top 10 will get to advance to the second round...unless nobody seems to care of course.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Peron and Attaturk

[Redalgo]

Atatürk deserves serious attention... though my preferred choice is Gorbachev, who I think would have steered the Soviet Union in a very positive direction if not for the major limitations placed on his power while in office. I also gave Tito an honourable mention even though I do not really have a positive opinion of his regime.

[angus]

other:  Stalin

Signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler buying him enough time to fortify, but knew enough that it was a sham.  Killed millions of innocent people.  Came off smelling like a rose.  Not only that, he vastly expanded his territorial holdings as a result of a war in which his people committed heinous crimes not only against enemies, but against their own people.  Additionally, he purged his party of idealists and other rebels, drove one of the most serious cults of personalities that ever existed, inspired fear and awe in anyone he met, and so successfully increased the power of the state secret police that they were able to operate even in enemy countries.  And the guy was only five feet, four inches tall!  I don't think it gets any better than that.

[Peeperkorn]

Mussolini before the Abyssinian adventure.

Atataturk.

Tito.

[Hifly]

I'm going with Ataturk.
I also have a somewhat soft spot for Ian Smith. He could have easily gone full-on Apartheid after the Unilateral Declaration of Independence but he didn't and under his rule the living conditions of the majority Black population was among the best in the African continent.
Also I don't understand why he is put down as a dictator.

[Oakvale]

Doesn't include Hitler, joke poll.

[Lief 🗽]

The lack of a Hoxha option leads me to believe that this poll is revisionist nonsense.

[© tweed]

I voted Minh, Tito, Castro, Peron, Ortega.

[Velasco]

I miss you, Father of All the Russias and the Soviet Peoples

[angus]

Doesn't include Hitler, joke poll.

He can be "other."  I thought about him as well.  He was, after all, the single most influential man of the 20th Century, and certainly Hitler has a lot going for him in the best dictator category, but I decided in the end to go with Stalin because Stalin didn't leave his country in ruins.  Being the best isn't just about subjugating all potential adversaries.  It should also be about the most successful land grabs.  Hitler lost a country.  To this day the economically inferior French have a greater sway in world affairs than the Germans because they were in the right place at the right time.  Stalin was every bit as nasty as Hitler, but Stalin had the last laugh, n'est-ce pas?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

[© tweed]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

Western media venerates him

[freefair]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

Western media venerates him

Best in this sense means most  pleasant or most sucessful in improving their nation. So Gorbachev, Tito, Ataturk, Xiaoping.

[Cassius]

Why is Smith on here? I mean when Malan, Verwoerd, Vorster and Botha didn't make the cut.

[Redalgo]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

He was a reformist and progressive leader by Soviet standards.

Gorbachev permitted for greater freedom of expression, release of many political prisoners, allowed non-Party members into government, tinkered with pro-cooperative reforms whilst allowing for some private property, implemented quality control standards for Soviet goods, continued the process for chipping away at Stalin's lingering cult of personality, and took on (albeit poorly) the rampant Soviet problem with alcoholism.  He was a nuclear arms abolitionist, got troops out of Afghanistan, deliberately brought an end to Soviet imperialism in the Eastern Bloc, and showed considerable interest in separating the Party from the USSR's government.

Yes he was inept at times, a bit naive, [Inks]ed up the economy, raised the debt, and so on... but got held back a lot by the condition of his country when he ascended to power, had the misfortune of being there when the state's closet full of skeletons was finally unlocked, and he had to deal with the right wingers within the Party who weren't exactly enthused about the prospect of reviewing and reorganizing organs of government, or modifying the constitution for that matter. Honestly, I look at Gorby and see the Russian equivalent to Carter: underrated, seemingly well-intentioned, dealt a bad hand of cards during his tenure, and mostly a respectable FF after leaving office.

He probably should have tried to restructure the federalist system sooner to allow for greater national autonomy and was unwise for rejecting market socialism but I guess that's much easier to say with the benefit of hindsight.

[© tweed]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

Western media venerates him

Best in this sense means most  pleasant or most sucessful in improving their nation. So Gorbachev, Tito, Ataturk, Smith.

life for the average Soviet/post-Soviet citizen was worse in 1998 than it was in 1985.

[Hifly]

Why is Smith on here? I mean when Malan, Verwoerd, Vorster and Botha didn't make the cut.

Because the guy who created this thread is misinformed on so many different levels.

Although Smith would still be my choice over Verwoerd and the rest of the crew

[The Mikado]

Despite some misgivings about him, voted for Mustafa Kemal, sometimes called Ataturk.

[traininthedistance]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

There's a good argument to be made that he saved us from WWIII.

[© tweed]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

There's a good argument to be made that he saved us from WWIII.

isn't that more Khrushchev than Gorbachev?

[H. Ross Peron]

Of those listed Ataturk, Smith, Park, Tito, Castro, and Deng Xiaoping (although the first two don't really count as dictators).

[The Mikado]

Smith

What

[traininthedistance]

Gorbachev was hilariously incompetent. How is he getting so many votes?

There's a good argument to be made that he saved us from WWIII.

isn't that more Khrushchev than Gorbachev?

We needed saving several times during the Cold War, and you're right to point out the Cuban Missile Crisis here (I assume that's what you're referring to).

What I was referring to is the fact that not everyone would have refrained from taking things "hot" as a reaction to the events of 1989.

[Indy Texas]

King Hussein is not a dictator by virtue of being a hereditary monarch.

Furthermore, the Soviet premiers that came after Brezhnev were the heads of non-democratic governments but I'm not sure I'd call them dictators. Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev didn't seize power. They were chosen for the job by the party central committee. It's like the difference between being the head of your own business that you founded and own outright, and being the CEO of a public company who has to answer to a board of directors.