What are you invested in?

[© tweed]

I think there's a pretty good chance TNF will have more money by the time he's my age than I do now.

nah, isn't he just a grad student somewhere in the humanities, maybe labor history?  he'll be kicking around visiting-fellowships for decades.

[TNF]

Kind of unsurprising that Atlas is full of 1%ers

It's now evil to freely invest in the economy! Lmao, you're a joke.

Didn't say anything to the morality of it. It's just that the average joe doesn't own stocks and bonds, unlike the average Atlas poster.

[Beet]

I think there's a pretty good chance TNF will have more money by the time he's my age than I do now.

nah, isn't he just a grad student somewhere in the humanities, maybe labor history?  he'll be kicking around visiting-fellowships for decades.

Not necessarily... Lots of grad students find work outside of academia if they can't find suitable opportunities within it. My college roommate in senior year is a History PhD student and when he finishes I think his plan is to work at a historical park or museum. Also, academia isn't exactly what one considers when one thinks of the lower class or even lower middle class. It's one of the very few areas where income and class are not well aligned.

[DC Al Fine]

Kind of unsurprising that Atlas is full of 1%ers

It's now evil to freely invest in the economy! Lmao, you're a joke.

Didn't say anything to the morality of it. It's just that the average joe doesn't own stocks and bonds, unlike the average Atlas poster.

Fair enough. My main quibble is the "1%" own stocks thing. Plenty of non-1%ers own stocks including yours truly. Even more own them when you include DB pension plans. Kentucky Teachers Pension Plan owns plenty of equities, and I doubt you'd call your peers 1%ers

[Link]

Mutual funds have such high management fees that they make no sense to invest in unless they're part of a 401(k) plan that your employer is matching. If you're just investing on your own, the expense ratios for ETFs are far more reasonable.

Index funds.  I like Vanguard.  I'm in total market and the long term bond fund.  They have low expense ratios.

[DC Al Fine]

Mutual funds have such high management fees that they make no sense to invest in unless they're part of a 401(k) plan that your employer is matching. If you're just investing on your own, the expense ratios for ETFs are far more reasonable.

Index funds.  I like Vanguard.  I'm in total market and the long term bond fund.  They have low expense ratios.

Yeah, Vanguards Total Stock Market fund charges like 0.05% in fees per annum. It's trivial. ETFs are good too though.

[jaichind]

10% High Yield ETFs
15% Muni ETFs
30% US Equity Index funds (SPY,QQQ,MDY,IWM)
20% Fixed Income (mostly investment grade corporate bonds and corporate ETFs)
10% Commodities/Gold
15% Emerging markets ETFs

In terms of income we are well into the 1%.  In terms of Net Worth we are just into the 1%.  Most of our friends are in similar situation and they are also very heavy into equities or real estate.  We have some RIETs but not that much.  We never liked the approach of owning real estate and renting them.  Too much hassle,  but a lot of our friends does not seem to mind.

[Link]

Yeah, Vanguards Total Stock Market fund charges like 0.05% in fees per annum. It's trivial. ETFs are good too though.

Yeah, people are like this fund or that fund is hot, but then you see the fees and you are like they better be hot to cover that expense ratio.  I don't want to bother researching fund managers and playing the game.  Honestly if you look back historically if you just hold down those expense ratios and are semi right about about which asset class to be in you do pretty well long term.  I've really taken the investment advice of one of our banned conservative members to heart.  Next time there is a deep recession I am going to pile into equities.

[Gustaf]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

[jaichind]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Yes.  On the other hand, most of them owns them through pension plans in which case they are passive investors.  In terms of financial assets, the top 1% owns about 42% of all financial assets, the next 19% owns about 54% and the bottom 20% owns less than 5%.  So yes, it would be wrong to say only the 1% are actively managing financial assets.  It is more like the 20%.

[Leftbehind]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Yes.  On the other hand, most of them owns them through pension plans in which case they are passive investors.  In terms of financial assets, the top 1% owns about 42% of all financial assets, the next 19% owns about 54% and the bottom 80% owns less than 5%.

FTFY.

[jaichind]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Yes.  On the other hand, most of them owns them through pension plans in which case they are passive investors.  In terms of financial assets, the top 1% owns about 42% of all financial assets, the next 19% owns about 54% and the bottom 80% owns less than 5%.

FTFY.

Thanks a bunch for fixing typo.

[Torie]

Outside of real estate (where most of my assets lie - maybe 75% of the total), about 60% in high quality short duration bonds, 40% in equities. Of the equities, 60% US, 40% ex-US, with about 5 to 6 times the normal market exposure to small cap companies (45% in small caps as compared to 8% for normal market exposure), and close to a  third more than the normal market weighting in favor of value companies over growth companies, two thirds value to one third growth, rather than half and half (hi Eugene Fama, how are you doing?   ). The theme here is to get risky with the equity side (as well as harvest that mysterious higher return for value), and get really safe with the bond side (including having a fair chunk in US treasuries, which are the one thing that does not get illiquid when Lehman type omega shocks hit the market).

Everything except for US treasuries, is in mutual funds, most with Vanguard (the place where expense ratios for me range from 5 basis points (1/20 of 1%), to about 25 basis points). I rarely trade or sell anything, othen than in extreme conditions (buy when equities are really low (big expected equity premium), sell when really high (low to none to negative expected equity premia (it was negative around 2000 with the IT bubble)), to change my equity exposure up or down some (not by more than 10% though). Some mutual funds I have held for near 20 years. Most everything not in the IRA, is also in highly tax efficient funds (index or tax managed funds), the exception being a small cap and a value foreign stock mutual fund, which are outside the IRA in order to harvest the foreign tax credits, which are lost in a tax deferred account.  I don't like paying capital gains taxes.

Vanguard tells me that my return for the last year overall has been 15.13%, having just looked it up. Sometimes I don't look that up for over a year or more.

I think that about sums it up.

Oh, a young person, with lots of expected human capital (has a secure high paying job that can be expected to continue), should be 100% in equities when, like now, market conditions, and the expected equity premia, are reasonably normal. A case can be made for such a person to go over 100%, buying on margin (negative bond exposure as it were), but I digress. For most people however, they should be at least 20% in bonds, until such time, if ever, as they are saving for their heirs, rather than themselves. That is my opinion anyway.

[DC Al Fine]

Oh, a young person, with lots of expected human capital (has a secure high paying job that can be expected to continue), should be 100% in equities when, like now, market conditions, and the expected equity premia, are reasonably normal. A case can be made for such a person to go over 100%, buying on margin (negative bond exposure as it were), but I digress. For most people however, they should be at least 20% in bonds, until such time, if ever, as they are saving for their heirs, rather than themselves. That is my opinion anyway.

I agree for those who are fairly rational/knowledgeable. I advise most people to be more conservative since they can't stomach the volatility. It seems like a small price to pay. Going 60/40 drastically cuts volatility while giving up relatively little return.

[opebo]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

[Torie]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

It is a fair point that the median net worth of Americans is rather shockingly low. Lots are invested in stocks (mostly through their pension plans), but the amounts are small. Part of that is of course wage stagnation at the lower end, but part of it is the consumerist culture. Everybody wants, the goodies, and they want them now, and buy them on credit, using credit cards with horrifically high interest rates. It's sad indeed.

[opebo]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

It is a fair point that the median net worth of Americans is rather shockingly low. Lots are invested in stocks (mostly through their pension plans), but the amounts are small. Part of that is of course wage stagnation at the lower end, but part of it is the consumerist culture. Everybody wants, the goodies, and they want them now, and buy them on credit, using credit cards with horrifically high interest rates. It's sad indeed.

Its actually entirely because of the wage diminution caused by your class.  No amount of 'not consuming' will enable people making $8/hour to buy stocks.  The working class hasn't gotten any 'goodies' in decades, and it is  offensive to suggest that they've only failed to achieve stock-owning investor status because of 'bad decisions'.

[memphis]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

Not only this, but most of the peasants who own one month's wages in a 401(k) (on which they are supposed to retire?) are older, and became employed back when jobs at least pretended to offer "retirement plans." What's the average age of Atlas Forum investors?

[DC Al Fine]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

Not only this, but most of the peasants who own one month's wages in a 401(k) (on which they are supposed to retire?) are older, and became employed back when jobs at least pretended to offer "retirement plans." What's the average age of Atlas Forum investors?

Torie is 62, Jachind is 41, and I'm 20. Are we missing anyone?

[opebo]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

Not only this, but most of the peasants who own one month's wages in a 401(k) (on which they are supposed to retire?) are older, and became employed back when jobs at least pretended to offer "retirement plans." What's the average age of Atlas Forum investors?

Torie is 62, Jachind is 41, and I'm 20. Are we missing anyone?

That rich kid, what's his name, Dukie.

[memphis]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

Not only this, but most of the peasants who own one month's wages in a 401(k) (on which they are supposed to retire?) are older, and became employed back when jobs at least pretended to offer "retirement plans." What's the average age of Atlas Forum investors?

Torie is 62, Jachind is 41, and I'm 20. Are we missing anyone?

That rich kid, what's his name, Dukie.

Don't forget the smug Swede and bereft Beet.

[opebo]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

Not only this, but most of the peasants who own one month's wages in a 401(k) (on which they are supposed to retire?) are older, and became employed back when jobs at least pretended to offer "retirement plans." What's the average age of Atlas Forum investors?

Torie is 62, Jachind is 41, and I'm 20. Are we missing anyone?

That rich kid, what's his name, Dukie.

Don't forget the smug Swede and bereft Beet.

That's right!  The insufferable Gustaf and the nonentity Beet.

We've a whole raft of guillotine worthies.

[Indy Texas]

I'm 25 and my IRA, while certainly not as big as Torie's or jaichind's, is well more than "a month's wages."

[Beet]

About half of Americans own stock, for the record. So let's drop the 1% nonsense on that issue.

Nonsense.  Less than 1% own any significant amount.  Your claim is absurd on its face - like saying 'poverty isn't a problem, because I know for a fact that poor people have dollar bills in their pockets'.

Not only this, but most of the peasants who own one month's wages in a 401(k) (on which they are supposed to retire?) are older, and became employed back when jobs at least pretended to offer "retirement plans." What's the average age of Atlas Forum investors?

Torie is 62, Jachind is 41, and I'm 20. Are we missing anyone?

That rich kid, what's his name, Dukie.

Don't forget the smug Swede and bereft Beet.

That's right!  The insufferable Gustaf and the nonentity Beet.

We've a whole raft of guillotine worthies.

Didn't you say you owned motorcycles in another thread? Another hypocritical capitalist owner living off your wealth. I've just got the answer:

[Torie]

This thread has been hijacked I see - yet another one bites the dust. Sad.