Is Barack Obama's personality crippling his presidency?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Sanchez, with all due respect, have you completely forgotten the backlash Obama received from members of his own party?  The Blue Dogs bear a lot of blame for the fact that single-payer wasn't passed.  Obama could've literally hit them with a cane and he wouldn't have gotten single-payer.  Now sure, he could have spoke about it more in his speeches, but how far would that have gotten him?  Chances are Obama underestimated the difficulties of getting what you want in this office when he ran.  Okay.  But then you're elected, reality hits, and it's the end of the honeymoon.  How differently do you think Hillary Clinton would have handled this?  More arm-crossing?  A more stern tone of voice?  You can only do so much.

As I am arguing in two seperate threads, if he had the willpower, he would have told the Southern Dems to f[inks] off and try to ram it through. If it fails, then try to compromise with the ACA. But he never even attempted it. The party was going to take a huge beating in 2010 no matter what, so he might as well should have tried to get something out of it.

But that would have been too confrontational for Obama's liking. Look at Ted Cruz, he has more or less destroyed any shot at him being elected President, but he at least made a last ditch (and stupid, IMO) effort to get rid of Obamacare.

[barfbag]

Yes it could do him some good to listen to former President Clinton.

[Indy Texas]

Sanchez, with all due respect, have you completely forgotten the backlash Obama received from members of his own party?  The Blue Dogs bear a lot of blame for the fact that single-payer wasn't passed.  Obama could've literally hit them with a cane and he wouldn't have gotten single-payer.  Now sure, he could have spoke about it more in his speeches, but how far would that have gotten him?  Chances are Obama underestimated the difficulties of getting what you want in this office when he ran.  Okay.  But then you're elected, reality hits, and it's the end of the honeymoon.  How differently do you think Hillary Clinton would have handled this?  More arm-crossing?  A more stern tone of voice?  You can only do so much.

As I am arguing in two seperate threads, if he had the willpower, he would have told the Southern Dems to f[inks] off and try to ram it through. If it fails, then try to compromise with the ACA. But he never even attempted it. The party was going to take a huge beating in 2010 no matter what, so he might as well should have tried to get something out of it.

But that would have been too confrontational for Obama's liking. Look at Ted Cruz, he has more or less destroyed any shot at him being elected President, but he at least made a last ditch (and stupid, IMO) effort to get rid of Obamacare.

1. He never had the votes to "ram through" anything without the support of the Blue Dogs. If you take the Democratic Caucus circa 2009 and remove the Blue Dogs and any other members in R+x districts, there isn't a majority. It would have been foolish to even go down that path.

2. Political capital is not infinite. If Obama had gone off on a futile pursuit of single-payer and it inevitably failed, he wouldn't be taken seriously in Congress. The Blue Dogs may not have come around to an ACA-type solution because they would feel the need to distance themselves from a president who pursued something perceived as radical. The Republicans would not have supported it either, but the sense would be, "He tried for what he wanted and failed, he's trying for a compromise now, all we have to do is scuttle that and we can force him to do something we want." And the likely result would have been some toothless Republican healthcare law that basically consisted of more tort reform and a tax deduction for health savings accounts. In other words, it would do absolutely no good at all.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Sanchez, with all due respect, have you completely forgotten the backlash Obama received from members of his own party?  The Blue Dogs bear a lot of blame for the fact that single-payer wasn't passed.  Obama could've literally hit them with a cane and he wouldn't have gotten single-payer.  Now sure, he could have spoke about it more in his speeches, but how far would that have gotten him?  Chances are Obama underestimated the difficulties of getting what you want in this office when he ran.  Okay.  But then you're elected, reality hits, and it's the end of the honeymoon.  How differently do you think Hillary Clinton would have handled this?  More arm-crossing?  A more stern tone of voice?  You can only do so much.

As I am arguing in two seperate threads, if he had the willpower, he would have told the Southern Dems to f[inks] off and try to ram it through. If it fails, then try to compromise with the ACA. But he never even attempted it. The party was going to take a huge beating in 2010 no matter what, so he might as well should have tried to get something out of it.

But that would have been too confrontational for Obama's liking. Look at Ted Cruz, he has more or less destroyed any shot at him being elected President, but he at least made a last ditch (and stupid, IMO) effort to get rid of Obamacare.

1. He never had the votes to "ram through" anything without the support of the Blue Dogs. If you take the Democratic Caucus circa 2009 and remove the Blue Dogs and any other members in R+x districts, there isn't a majority. It would have been foolish to even go down that path.

2. Political capital is not infinite. If Obama had gone off on a futile pursuit of single-payer and it inevitably failed, he wouldn't be taken seriously in Congress. The Blue Dogs may not have come around to an ACA-type solution because they would feel the need to distance themselves from a president who pursued something perceived as radical. The Republicans would not have supported it either, but the sense would be, "He tried for what he wanted and failed, he's trying for a compromise now, all we have to do is scuttle that and we can force him to do something we want." And the likely result would have been some toothless Republican healthcare law that basically consisted of more tort reform and a tax deduction for health savings accounts. In other words, it would do absolutely no good at all.

1. You cut the Southern Democrats loose then. If you can't get their votes, then have the DCCC ignore them in 2010. Most of them lost their seats anyway.

2. We both agree that political capital is not infinite. But why go down the Healthcare reform road half assed only to lose seats in 2010, fight hard in 2012, and then have the bill dismembered in 2013? What good did that do? A push for single payer might have the same results, but at least he could have said he tried.

[Yank2133]

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

Read my first paragraph in my last post.

[Yank2133]

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

Read my first paragraph in my last post.

They wouldn't have had a enough votes for it to pass the house without them and this doesn't even get into the subject of the Senate.

There was no chance of single-payer ever been a realistic option.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

Read my first paragraph in my last post.

They wouldn't have had a enough votes for it to pass the house without them and this doesn't even get into the subject of the Senate.

There was no chance of single-payer ever been a realistic option.

If Obama threatened to pull the plug on the wavering Democrats, he could have brought a few more in. If he failed, well, then he failed. As it stands now, he passed a watered down healthcare bill that is being whittled away more and more overtime. Do you call that a success?

[7,052,770]

Give it up, Sanchez.  There is absolutely no way in Hell single-payer was ever remotely plausible under Obama, period.  If he'd tried that, there would have been no "compromise on Obamacare."  The backlash would have caused us to get nothing.

[Yank2133]

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

Read my first paragraph in my last post.

They wouldn't have had a enough votes for it to pass the house without them and this doesn't even get into the subject of the Senate.

There was no chance of single-payer ever been a realistic option.

If Obama threatened to pull the plug on the wavering Democrats, he could have brought a few more in. If he failed, well, then he failed. As it stands now, he passed a watered down healthcare bill that is being whittled away more and more overtime. Do you call that a success?

What exactly would Obama be able to threaten the Blue-dogs with? And by going after single-payer and failing would have been the end of his presidency and he would have no political capital to pass anything else.

And yes, passing ACA is massive success. It is the biggest overhaul of the healthcare system since medicare/medicaid and no Democratic president has been able to do so.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Give it up, Sanchez.  There is absolutely no way in Hell single-payer was ever remotely plausible under Obama, period.  If he'd tried that, there would have been no "compromise on Obamacare."  The backlash would have caused us to get nothing.

You guys got nothing in the end anyway, so what does it matter?

On an unrelated note, can I assume the new I-MS avatar is because of the decision by the administration today?

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

Read my first paragraph in my last post.

They wouldn't have had a enough votes for it to pass the house without them and this doesn't even get into the subject of the Senate.

There was no chance of single-payer ever been a realistic option.

If Obama threatened to pull the plug on the wavering Democrats, he could have brought a few more in. If he failed, well, then he failed. As it stands now, he passed a watered down healthcare bill that is being whittled away more and more overtime. Do you call that a success?

What exactly would Obama be able to threaten the Blue-dogs with? And by going after single-payer and failing would have been the end of his presidency and he would have no political capital to pass anything else.

And yes, passing ACA is massive success. It is the biggest overhaul of the healthcare system since medicare/medicaid and no Democratic president has been able to do so.

Cutting off pork and DCCC funding? Most of them were dead in the water come 2010 anyway. If you call empty legislation a success, well, more power to you. As I said earlier, it seems to me that Obama is now just Bush Sr. 2.0 with a second term?

[7,052,770]

You guys got nothing in the end anyway, so what does it matter?

We got the most important piece of legislation in decades, actually, and we wouldn't have if Obama had tried single payer instead.  And while today's decision is a bill, I realize Obama probably didn't have a choice.  It certainly won't kill the law, just slow the positive effects some.

On an unrelated note, can I assume the new I-MS avatar is because of the decision by the administration today?

Protest against Obama not having a spine and the Democratic Party as a whole not presenting a unified voice, splintering so easily.  If we don't cut this out, get Landrieu, etc., in line, 2014 will be 2010 all over again.

[Yank2133]

Give it up, Sanchez.  There is absolutely no way in Hell single-payer was ever remotely plausible under Obama, period.  If he'd tried that, there would have been no "compromise on Obamacare."  The backlash would have caused us to get nothing.

You guys got nothing in the end anyway, so what does it matter?

On an unrelated note, can I assume the new I-MS avatar is because of the decision by the administration today?

How the f could Obama get single payer? Every special interest group would be running ads 24/7 calling him an invasive communist *insert black pejorative term here* and the bill would be as unpopular as AIDS within two months. Obama could propose any minor healthcare reform and it would polarize the country by the late summer of 2009.

He had both Houses of Congress. He was going to be hit hard in the midterms anyway. Why not go all the way and come back in 2012?

I support single payer over this mandate BS, and the fact that we can't repeal it completely at this point shows how strong single payer could have come.

Admit it: You may like Obama, but he could certainly be better. I think that about Rand Paul all the time.

The Democrats never had the votes for a single-payer system.(the blue-dogs would never have gone for it). So Obama did what any good politician would have done, he compromised and got something passed that will help the problem, but also can be built in the future.

Lmao, single-payer! Just look how difficult it was to pass ACA, which is more conservative then Nixon's healthcare plan.

Pelosi was one of the strongest Speakers in history. She would have gotten the votes. The ACA is the result of Obama caving, and smelling blood, my party's sharks stormed ahead and tried to stop him completely.

....excuses, excuses....

He could have had single payer

W.T.F.

What a reasoned argument. Care to post a tumbler meme while your at it?

Bullsh**t.

There is no way Pelosi would have been able to deliver any blue-dog democrats, single payer was DOA on arrival.

Read my first paragraph in my last post.

They wouldn't have had a enough votes for it to pass the house without them and this doesn't even get into the subject of the Senate.

There was no chance of single-payer ever been a realistic option.

If Obama threatened to pull the plug on the wavering Democrats, he could have brought a few more in. If he failed, well, then he failed. As it stands now, he passed a watered down healthcare bill that is being whittled away more and more overtime. Do you call that a success?

What exactly would Obama be able to threaten the Blue-dogs with? And by going after single-payer and failing would have been the end of his presidency and he would have no political capital to pass anything else.

And yes, passing ACA is massive success. It is the biggest overhaul of the healthcare system since medicare/medicaid and no Democratic president has been able to do so.

Cutting off pork and DCCC funding? Most of them were dead in the water come 2010 anyway. If you call empty legislation a success, well, more power to you. As I said earlier, it seems to me that Obama is now just Bush Sr. 2.0 with a second term?

How is it empty legislation, it is one of the most important pieces of legislation in years. The alternative of going for single-payer and getting nothing would have been far worse. The ACA doesn't fix the problem, but it is far better then the old system.

[barfbag]

You guys got nothing in the end anyway, so what does it matter?

We got the most important piece of legislation in decades, actually, and we wouldn't have if Obama had tried single payer instead.  And while today's decision is a bill, I realize Obama probably didn't have a choice.  It certainly won't kill the law, just slow the positive effects some.

On an unrelated note, can I assume the new I-MS avatar is because of the decision by the administration today?

Protest against Obama not having a spine and the Democratic Party as a whole not presenting a unified voice, splintering so easily.  If we don't cut this out, get Landrieu, etc., in line, 2014 will be 2010 all over again.

Think about Mark Pryor, Mark Begich, and Kay Hagan too. They're from red states and voted for Obamacare. Now in October we'll have people losing their insurance again just before mid-term elections. I hope it was worth their vote.

[hopper]

I don't know he just seems like he is aloof at times. With all the scandals that came out at once(NSA, The IRS, and  Benghazi) I mean that had to be rough on him I know. Plus the Hard-Right coming into power in 2011 had to be frustrating because he thought he had deals with Boehner a few times and then the Hard-Right would say no to Boehner's compromise with Obama.

The aloofness really can be seen in his apology to the American People the other day. I was happy he apologized but he just didn't look like he was totally into the apology like his mind was somewhere else.

[muon2]

I agree that single payer was never on the table for Obama. White house discussions from Mar 2009 indicated that he saw single payer as a crazy idea. In part that was due to union pressure to keep some form of employer-based health care.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Which is quite sensible of the unions.  If we had single-payer health care, there would be even less reason for workers to unionize than there is now.

[Blue3]

Lieberman threatened to filibuster the ACA if they didn't drop the public option... which they did. There was also a bit of arm-twisting to just get Nelson, Lincoln, Landrieu, Pryor to go along with it. I do not think single-payer was an option after the 2009 summer town hall meetings and the birth of the Tea Party. But maybe if Obama started with single-payer, we could have gotten the public option as a compromise.

[Conflicted Progressive]

I have to agree with Chairmansanchez on this one. Obama is the freaking PRESIDENT and the leader of his party. He had incredible momentum and goodwill coming into 2009 and he didn't take full advantage of it. He could have threatened Democrats that opposed him and corralled them into voting however he wanted, including for the public option. He chose not to because he didn't believe in a public option because he isn't progressive.

[Mr. Morden]

I'm reminded of this thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=159640.0

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That article makes him sound pretty miserable.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Barack Obama's personality/temperament is part of why he (and not, say, Jesse Jackson) is the first black President.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

My GOD Sanchez!

So much wrong, so many better things to do than refute every-single-one-of-them...

However, I will say that the suggestion that Obama could 'drive-through' single-payer just by sheer will a la Johnson, is beyond ludicrous. When you have 'just' enough of your own party to get a watered-down version through the house and even then just cross the filibuster threshold in the Senate... do you really, REALLY think that Obama could have 'shocked' the Congress into passing single-payer?

If you do? Then your grasp on modern politics needs to be seriously re-assessed. The GOP of 2010-13 makes the Dixiecrats look like Rockefeller Republicans.


Obama clearly hates 'politics' but likes policy, which is basically a polar-reversal to what people expected. The glad-handing, emotional manipulation and 'begging' that comes with it clearly makes him deeply uncomfortable, but he KNOWS he needs to do it, to get the policy done. Funnily, Hillary Clinton is the same and I think Romney too. There are VERY few, who have the pathology required to be a Clinton or a Reagan. In fact the the 'grin and bear it' nature of presidential politics, is by FAR the more common personality presented.

[RogueBeaver]

What Polnut said. That sort of thing is what Brendan Nyhan calls "Green Lanternism", best exemplified by Ron Fournier.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My GOD Sanchez!

So much wrong, so many better things to do than refute every-single-one-of-them...

However, I will say that the suggestion that Obama could 'drive-through' single-payer just by sheer will a la Johnson, is beyond ludicrous. When you have 'just' enough of your own party to get a watered-down version through the house and even then just cross the filibuster threshold in the Senate... do you really, REALLY think that Obama could have 'shocked' the Congress into passing single-payer?

If you do? Then your grasp on modern politics needs to be seriously re-assessed. The GOP of 2010-13 makes the Dixiecrats look like Rockefeller Republicans.


Obama clearly hates 'politics' but likes policy, which is basically a polar-reversal to what people expected. The glad-handing, emotional manipulation and 'begging' that comes with it clearly makes him deeply uncomfortable, but he KNOWS he needs to do it, to get the policy done. Funnily, Hillary Clinton is the same and I think Romney too. There are VERY few, who have the pathology required to be a Clinton or a Reagan. In fact the the 'grin and bear it' nature of presidential politics, is by FAR the more common personality presented.

Again, you seem to have missed the entire point I was making.

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

Obama clearly hates 'politics' but likes policy, which is basically a polar-reversal to what people expected. The glad-handing, emotional manipulation and 'begging' that comes with it clearly makes him deeply uncomfortable, but he KNOWS he needs to do it, to get the policy done. Funnily, Hillary Clinton is the same and I think Romney too. There are VERY few, who have the pathology required to be a Clinton or a Reagan. In fact the the 'grin and bear it' nature of presidential politics, is by FAR the more common personality presented.

For somebody who is calling out what I am saying as wrong, you more or less just reposted it. If Obama wants to deal with the Republicans he is dealing with, he needs the LBJ style, not the "grin and bear it" style. And if the LBJ style wouldn't be enough to win, then it is better to lose then pass something empty that will later implode.

Why is it so hard for people to read what I have been posting; you all scream "wrong! wrong! wrong!" and post it again.

[7,052,770]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

OK, I'm pretty sure you're just trolling us all now.  Obama should've used his dictatorial powers or else ESP to force dozens of Senators and Representatives into voting for single-payer, despite them having never given any indication that they would, and even though it took SO much wrangling just to get Obamacare.