Dubai Air Show leads to record orders for Boeing (and some for Airbus)
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  Dubai Air Show leads to record orders for Boeing (and some for Airbus)
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Author Topic: Dubai Air Show leads to record orders for Boeing (and some for Airbus)  (Read 3871 times)
Tender Branson
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« on: November 17, 2013, 08:25:22 AM »

Airlines in the Gulf have placed a number of high value plane orders on the first day of the Dubai Air Show, with US giant Boeing a major winner.

Dubai-based Emirates airline placed an order for 150 of Boeing's new 777 mini-jumbos, in a $76bn (£47bn) deal.

Other orders from Etihad Airways, Qatar Airways and Lufthansa for some 109 of the new 777, previously codenamed 777X, brought its sales total to $95bn.

Emirates has also ordered 50 Airbus A380s, in a deal worth $23bn.

The airline is already the biggest customer of the A380 and the new deal will bring its total orders for the plane to 140.

And local rival Etihad Airways has also announced a firm order for 87 Airbus aircraft - some 50 A350 XWBs, 36 A320neo aircraft and one A330-200F as part of its fleet modernization strategy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24978226
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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 01:21:11 PM »

Looks like Boeing's having the advantage over Airbus now.
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 08:32:17 PM »
« Edited: November 17, 2013, 11:56:31 PM by Beet »

 10 years ago, hardly anyone knew what Dubai was. At its current trajectory Dubai's international airport will likely exceed Atlanta's in terms of annual passenger traffic within a few years. That'd be the first time it was not a US or European airport since possibly the beginning of aviation. When people I know travel to India for instance, they usually stop over in Dubai. As India's economy continues to grow Dubai is well placed as a strategic global hub between Asia and Europe. It is closer to Russia, Europe, the Middle East, South Asia and East Asia than New York, and it is closer to emerging Asian destinations than London. This is THE strategically placed hub, a sort of super-Hong Kong/Singapore. In a decade or two it has a real chance of surpassing London and New York as a world financial center. If I were allowed to and have the money, I would look into real estate opportunities.
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Sol
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 10:33:57 AM »

10 years ago, hardly anyone knew what Dubai was. At its current trajectory Dubai's international airport will likely exceed Atlanta's in terms of annual passenger traffic within a few years. That'd be the first time it was not a US or European airport since possibly the beginning of aviation. When people I know travel to India for instance, they usually stop over in Dubai. As India's economy continues to grow Dubai is well placed as a strategic global hub between Asia and Europe. It is closer to Russia, Europe, the Middle East, South Asia and East Asia than New York, and it is closer to emerging Asian destinations than London. This is THE strategically placed hub, a sort of super-Hong Kong/Singapore. In a decade or two it has a real chance of surpassing London and New York as a world financial center. If I were allowed to and have the money, I would look into real estate opportunities.
Of course, the question is this then: Do we want a major world center to depend on de facto slave labor?
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ingemann
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 04:24:46 PM »

Of course, the question is this then: Do we want a major world center to depend on de facto slave labor?

Don't worry Dubai will not become the next big thing, it will last as long as oil money is pumped into the economy, and afterward we will see their economy slowly decay. While most world trading centres depend on som degree of guest workers and expats, the degree which Dubai and the other Gulf states depend on foreign experts and even unskilled workers, mean that the multiplication effect of money invested into their economy is ridiculous low. The only state Arabic Gulf State I expect to deal well with loss of their oil money is Oman, which are a natural transportation hub, and are quite distinct from the other Gulf States in that the population work for a living and even more incredible tend to be more conservative in how they invest their oil money.
So if people want to buy property in Dubai, I hope for you that you can pull out before the buble burst.
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Beet
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 04:31:38 PM »

I thought Dubai was a bubble in 2008, not now. It's going to be a major port between Europe/West Asia and East Asia. Forget oil (although that helps). Just look at the location. In the middle of everything. Similar to Venice in the 1100s. The large number of foreign workers is not a disadvantage, it is foreigners who will build Dubai's economy. As they do, Dubai will naturally grow connections with diverse communities all over the world. It actually is critical to Dubai and increases its cosmopolitan cred, just as the large number of foreigners in NYC and London do the same for those cities. The "natives" don't have to do anything.
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opebo
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 04:47:33 PM »

I thought Dubai was a bubble in 2008, not now. It's going to be a major port between Europe/West Asia and East Asia. Forget oil (although that helps). Just look at the location. In the middle of everything. Similar to Venice in the 1100s.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but I'd say its up a dead-end backwater..
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ingemann
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 04:56:51 PM »

I thought Dubai was a bubble in 2008, not now. It's going to be a major port between Europe/West Asia and East Asia. Forget oil (although that helps). Just look at the location. In the middle of everything. Similar to Venice in the 1100s. The large number of foreign workers is not a disadvantage, it is foreigners who will build Dubai's economy. As they do, Dubai will naturally grow connections with diverse communities all over the world. It actually is critical to Dubai and increases its cosmopolitan cred, just as the large number of foreigners in NYC and London do the same for those cities. The "natives" don't have to do anything.

Yes that would be some good point except:

Dubai lie lousy for a transportation hub, it lies halfway down the Persian Gulf, which also happen to be a rather unstable area. It can be a hub for airtravel, but the money you get out of that is a lot less than for bulk transport. So outside people's fantasies it will never become a major transportation hub.

As for thewhole Venice comparison, it's lousy, because Venice was not transportation hub, it was centre of a empire, which did it best to monopolise the trade between Europe and Asia, with different degree of succees over time, and as their military relevance disappeared, so did their trading empire and the City of Venice was by the late 17th century reduced to the European party town, while the former merchant princes had just become another group landed nobility, owning vast estates in mainland remnants of the Venetian Empire.

As for the whole diverse community and their connection around the world, here's the secret behind it; it works when when people settler there, there are a reason we call the foreigners in Dubai for Guest Workers and Expats and not immigrants, because they almost all leave again. Dubai is not the New York of the Persian Gulf, because people don't emigrate to Dubai, they live their for a short periode and earn their money and leave the country again. It's not something which create inrternational connections.    

As for London, Singapore, Hong Kong and New York, the people born there, they work in the local economy.
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Link
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 10:31:33 PM »

Dubai has already been bailed out once in 2009.
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Sbane
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 11:50:56 PM »

10 years ago, hardly anyone knew what Dubai was. At its current trajectory Dubai's international airport will likely exceed Atlanta's in terms of annual passenger traffic within a few years. That'd be the first time it was not a US or European airport since possibly the beginning of aviation. When people I know travel to India for instance, they usually stop over in Dubai. As India's economy continues to grow Dubai is well placed as a strategic global hub between Asia and Europe. It is closer to Russia, Europe, the Middle East, South Asia and East Asia than New York, and it is closer to emerging Asian destinations than London. This is THE strategically placed hub, a sort of super-Hong Kong/Singapore. In a decade or two it has a real chance of surpassing London and New York as a world financial center. If I were allowed to and have the money, I would look into real estate opportunities.

Look, no one wants to connect unless they really have to. Indians living in the US unfortunately have to because no direct routes are profitable except from NYC, and even then only to Mumbai and New Delhi. This means that anyone going to any other cities still have to connect. Emirates (and other gulf carriers) fit that niche well because from most of the US (except the west coast) the flights to the gulf aren't super long. And then they have flights to basically every corner of India because there are a lot of workers from India living in those gulf countries. So it can end up being more convenient for a lot of people to go with these gulf carriers as opposed to having to connect at JFK and then in Mumbai or New Delhi.

From the west coast the Asian carriers have the advantage I feel but no one has been able to grab it. The problem is that places like Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea and Japan don't have the same amount of travel occurring between those places and India as is happening between the gulf and India, or Singapore and India. Singapore airlines is big among the Indian community on the west coast, but going all the way south to Singapore is a waste of time. Hong Kong would be perfect. I think Cathay is in the perfect place to exploit this market. Cathay can of course run profitable routes to Mumbai, New Delhi and perhaps Bangalore, but otherwise they should find a way to make Silk air profitable to other big cities like Kolkata, Chennai, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad. And line those flights up with the flights coming in from SFO and LAX. They are starting to do it for some markets already. My sister is flying from SFO to HKG and then within a few hours to Kolkata. If I was on the west coast, I would fly Cathay for sure. But from Nashville, Qatar or Emirates is a better choice. Let's see how that goes.
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Beet
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2013, 01:52:38 PM »
« Edited: November 22, 2013, 01:59:25 PM by Beet »

10 years ago, hardly anyone knew what Dubai was. At its current trajectory Dubai's international airport will likely exceed Atlanta's in terms of annual passenger traffic within a few years. That'd be the first time it was not a US or European airport since possibly the beginning of aviation. When people I know travel to India for instance, they usually stop over in Dubai. As India's economy continues to grow Dubai is well placed as a strategic global hub between Asia and Europe. It is closer to Russia, Europe, the Middle East, South Asia and East Asia than New York, and it is closer to emerging Asian destinations than London. This is THE strategically placed hub, a sort of super-Hong Kong/Singapore. In a decade or two it has a real chance of surpassing London and New York as a world financial center. If I were allowed to and have the money, I would look into real estate opportunities.

Look, no one wants to connect unless they really have to. Indians living in the US unfortunately have to because no direct routes are profitable except from NYC, and even then only to Mumbai and New Delhi. This means that anyone going to any other cities still have to connect. Emirates (and other gulf carriers) fit that niche well because from most of the US (except the west coast) the flights to the gulf aren't super long. And then they have flights to basically every corner of India because there are a lot of workers from India living in those gulf countries. So it can end up being more convenient for a lot of people to go with these gulf carriers as opposed to having to connect at JFK and then in Mumbai or New Delhi.

From the west coast the Asian carriers have the advantage I feel but no one has been able to grab it. The problem is that places like Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea and Japan don't have the same amount of travel occurring between those places and India as is happening between the gulf and India, or Singapore and India. Singapore airlines is big among the Indian community on the west coast, but going all the way south to Singapore is a waste of time. Hong Kong would be perfect. I think Cathay is in the perfect place to exploit this market. Cathay can of course run profitable routes to Mumbai, New Delhi and perhaps Bangalore, but otherwise they should find a way to make Silk air profitable to other big cities like Kolkata, Chennai, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad. And line those flights up with the flights coming in from SFO and LAX. They are starting to do it for some markets already. My sister is flying from SFO to HKG and then within a few hours to Kolkata. If I was on the west coast, I would fly Cathay for sure. But from Nashville, Qatar or Emirates is a better choice. Let's see how that goes.

Fascinating shane, thanks for the explanation. I was not actually thinking about the large Indian population in Dubai, and was only thinking about its geographic proximity to India. Also you are right, I guess from the West Coast, going the Pacific route is slightly faster.

That also goes back to ingemann's point about people not settling in Dubai. I guess it depends on whom you mean. The city's population has increased from 1.2 million to over 2 million in just the past 8 years. So clearly *someone* is moving there. (And its not just the UAE. Qatar is increased from 750k in 2004 to 1.9 million today).

I disagree that Venice was known primarily as an Empire. It's land mass was very small compared to other empires. It became successful as a trading center first, which caused its naval prowess to increase, which finally allowed it to finance an empire. The catalyst for its decline was the rise of the Ottoman Empire which cut off trade with the Near East, since they were always a hostilities with the Venetians.

Edit: I also forgot to mention the discovery of the Cape of Good Hope meant that trade routes to Asia were shortened through a path bypassing Venice.
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ingemann
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2013, 05:19:41 PM »

That also goes back to ingemann's point about people not settling in Dubai. I guess it depends on whom you mean. The city's population has increased from 1.2 million to over 2 million in just the past 8 years. So clearly *someone* is moving there. (And its not just the UAE. Qatar is increased from 750k in 2004 to 1.9 million today).

Did I say people didn't live there? No I didn't, I said they didn't stay.

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So according to you Denmark, Kazakhstan and Congo are among the world's great power, seing as they own large land territories? A empire are measured on the quality of their territory, not the quantity.

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Seeing as the Venetian decay began before Cape was crossed by the Portuguese, that's weak reasoning.
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2013, 09:20:19 PM »

I disagree that Venice was known primarily as an Empire. It's land mass was very small compared to other empires. It became successful as a trading center first, which caused its naval prowess to increase, which finally allowed it to finance an empire. The catalyst for its decline was the rise of the Ottoman Empire which cut off trade with the Near East, since they were always a hostilities with the Venetians.

So according to you Denmark, Kazakhstan and Congo are among the world's great power, seing as they own large land territories? A empire are measured on the quality of their territory, not the quantity.

Denmark consistently ranks as one of the happiest countries in the world.  How are you measuring success?

And Congo has far more wealth in the ground Dubai.  Congo will continue to be a mess because it has so much wealth.  Congo literally has TRILLIONS of dollars underground.

Dubai to me is no where near as stable as Denmark.  It doesn't have the same rule of law and transparency.  And it totally loses out to Congo in terms of shear resources.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2013, 03:49:54 AM »

On this subject, Cathay's subsidiary Dragonair runs an HKG-DAC flight now; the last two times my family's gone to Bangladesh, we've gone SFO-HKG-DAC.
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ingemann
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2013, 09:56:07 AM »

I disagree that Venice was known primarily as an Empire. It's land mass was very small compared to other empires. It became successful as a trading center first, which caused its naval prowess to increase, which finally allowed it to finance an empire. The catalyst for its decline was the rise of the Ottoman Empire which cut off trade with the Near East, since they were always a hostilities with the Venetians.

So according to you Denmark, Kazakhstan and Congo are among the world's great power, seing as they own large land territories? A empire are measured on the quality of their territory, not the quantity.

Denmark consistently ranks as one of the happiest countries in the world.  How are you measuring success?

And Congo has far more wealth in the ground Dubai.  Congo will continue to be a mess because it has so much wealth.  Congo literally has TRILLIONS of dollars underground.

Dubai to me is no where near as stable as Denmark.  It doesn't have the same rule of law and transparency.  And it totally loses out to Congo in terms of shear resources.

My point where that all these three states are in top 15 in country size (in the Danish case because of Greenland), it doesn't make them great powers. Denmark while rich can safely be ignored by most states, as long as they don't have interest in the Baltic or Arctic area. This was as a comparison to the Venetian Empire, a value of a states territories are based on their strategic value and the money you can make from them, not whether it's large space filler territory like the former French Sahara or Danish Greenland.

As for Dubai, yes you focus on  the really good point, why Dubai likely will not become a permanent world hub; The lack of rule of law. As long as Abu Dhabi keep throwing money into Dubai, Western opportunists and poor south and east asians may try their fortune there. But when the money stop flowing, as we saw in a short period in 2008, they will stop coming and begin to leave. Few really wish to settle permanent, as they in best case will be second class (non-)citizens in the case of the white fellows, and not even that for the non-Europeans. At the same time the local law build on Sharia and is enforced arbitary. At last Dubai is a energy hog, which make Las Vegas seem environmental responsable. It's build a place without fresh water and all water need to be desalinated.
 
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2013, 12:43:21 PM »

ingemann,

You aren't going to believe this but I didn't even notice your avatar when I posted!  Sorry for trying to school you on your own country!
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King
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2013, 04:01:01 PM »

The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country and now they must put it back!

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