WI: Quebec as a founding state

[Polkergeist]

During the American Revolution, Quebec* was first asked to join the revolution and when it did not it was invaded by Revolutionary forces in 1775, an invasion which failed.

But lets say that either the invasion succeeded or the colony joined the other 13 in rising up against the British. It would have joined the confederation after the revolution.

But how would the resulting United States look with Quebec in it considering:

- That the new state/colony would use french civil code

- That most of the population who speak French and were Catholic

Hence the state of Quebec would be vastly different from the other 13 founding states. I suggest that this would lead to a looser federal constitution. How would America develop and look like today if this occured ?

* In 1775 Quebec encompassed most of present day Ontario as well. It was also commonly known as Canada

[Erc]

If I remember, one of the (many) causes of the Revolution was the Quebec Act of 1774 (which was passed by Parliament to prevent the problems in the Colonies from spreading to Quebec).

The Quebec Act guaranteed the right of the Quebecois to use the French language, French law, and Catholicism.  These were seen in the US as concessions to the French (who they had just spent 7 years defeating)--and they were justifiably annoyed, especially considering that the Quebec Act also gave Quebec what later became the Northwest Territories, as well.

So if they had joined willingly, there would have been problems...although I'm certain that eventually the rest of the country would have given up on the code/religion/language issue--leaving only the land issue, which was contentious enough as it is.  They'd have had to have given it up, like everyone else...but it would have been messy.

If Canada had been conquered, we wouldn't have been so generous.  They'd be speaking English today.

[Polkergeist]

Lets Say the British knowing that they were on the nose in North America decide not to go through with the 1774 Quebec Act not to anger the colonists further.

However the Revolution still happened because of the other intolerable acts.

Does Quebec go with the revolution?

Would the Continental Congress make any concession to Quebec to entice them to rebel ?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Close elections electoral vote wise (useful if seeing if something Quebec sized makes a difference)

1824 37.9%, 32.2%
1876 Hayes 50.1%
2000 Bush 50.37%
1796 Adams 51.4%
1916 Wilson 52.17%
1800 Jefferson 52.9%, and stupid tie
2004 Bush 53.16%
1884 Cleveland 54.6%

Note that lots of really close elections don't qualify.

Yes, Bush had the 3rd and 7th lowest percentages of the electoral vote ever.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

If the Rebels had conquered Quebec, I sincerely doubt that the Rebels would have gotten French assistance, and so would have lost the Revolution.  Had Quebec been convinced somehow to join the colonies in their revolt (most likely by Alien Space Bats) I don't think that they would have remained part of the United States very long.  At the very least, they would have bolted when the Constitution was approved, as I can't see them being willing to give up the right of each State to veto Federal action that was present uunder the Articles of Confederation.

[ATFFL]

The French might have sent assistance under the assumption they would get Quebec back after the war.

The US would have also had a massive infusion of much needed supplies.  Quebec had a large amount of cannon shot and powder that would have made a huge difference in the early years of the war.  It would have been like getting French aid in the early days of the war.

Once the British were driven out of Boston by the bluff with the guns from Ticonderoga, Washington would have been in position to threaten Halifax.  Given the guns and supplies from both Quebec and Boston he would have the men, cannons, powder, shot and time to lay siege to the city.  If Halifax fell the war would be over.  The British would be off the North American continent, likely never to return.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

How does Washington get his guns, men, and supplies to Halifax in the first place?  It's certainly not going to be by ship, and the terrain difficulties that bedeviled the attempt to take Canada will also affect any attempt to gat at Halifax by a land route.

Even if they somehow lost Halifax, with their command of the Sea, the British certainly could atempt their Southern strategy, just as they did in our time line, and without French support, it would succeed.

Securing Canada as the fourteenth rebel colony was never more than a pipe dream, and it would take a considerably changed history for it to have joined in.  A more fruitful and plausible Revolutionary War what-if would be "What if the Iroquois Confederacy had been united in its support for either the Rebels or the Tories in the Revolutionary War?"  Having the Iroquois as the fourteenth State is much more plausible than having the Canadiens join the rebellion by hook or by crook.

[ATFFL]

For one thing, he would be travelling there during much better weather than the Candia expeditions did.  The British did move men and guns by land from Halifax in summer, Washington can easily do the same in the other direction.

The southern strategy would not work with or without the French.  It was a poor idea that never came close to achieving its goals.  In the wake of Colonial victories in Quebec, Boston and Halifax the British would find even less support than they originally did.

Not to mention without Halifax the British supply lines cross the Atlantic Ocean.  They would either have to spend a few years building up another supply base or run supplies across an entire ocean.  This is not an easy endeavor with the technology of the time.  Even with Halifax as a reliable supply point the British still faced some logistical troubles.  If it is removed by being captured or siezed, any action in the colonies becomes a nightmare.

[Polkergeist]

So you guys are saying that there was more chance of Nova Scotia joining the revolution that Quebec ?

Here's a link about an essay of Nova Scotia joining the revolution:

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/E/novascotia/scotiaxx.htm

[muon2]

Another possibility would have been to bring Quebec in through the French. In this scenario, the Patriots could have negotiated for French agitation of the Quebecois against the British. And in return Quebec would return to France. If Quebec would have joined in this manner, French aid would have continued through the war.

After the Revolution, I can imagine a treaty that gives France control of the lower St. Lawrence, and gives upper Canada to the new United States. This timeline could take a further turn when Jefferson acquires Louisiana. Would the French also sell off some or all of their  Canadian assets at the same time?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Had the Revolutionary War acutally gained territory for France, it is quite likely that the French Revolution would either be avoided or massively change in character.  As such, talking about the sale of Louisiana by Napoleon to Jefferson as a fait accompli is rather ludicrous.  Even if Napoleon still takes power on schedule, the main reason that Napoleon was willing to sell Louisiana is that events in Haiti had soured him on the idea of rebuilding New France.  If Quebec is still content under French control in 1803, I can't see Napoleon selling Louisiana.

[ATFFL]

I might have to dig out the AH story I started which had Arnold succeed in taking Quebec (which was later renamed after him) and the new US fighting France after refusing to turn over Quebec (replaces the War of 1812.)

[Polkergeist]

I might have to dig out the AH story I started which had Arnold succeed in taking Quebec (which was later renamed after him) and the new US fighting France after refusing to turn over Quebec (replaces the War of 1812.)

That sounds pretty good !