Do you think Vermont should secede from the US and join Canada?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I am fascinated by the desire of groups to create even greater political segregation in North America. The Big Sort has created a high degree of geographical polarization within the states of the US, yet apparently that sorting isn't enough. Is there nothing to be gained by a diversity of viewpoints within a state or country?

I am not trying to create political segregation but Vermont is just so liberal.

Look at the surrounding states PVI:

NH: D+1
ME: D+6
MA: D+10
CT: D+7
NY: D+12 or D+13

Look at Vermont PVI:

VT: D+16

Seems to me that all that means is that it's at the high end of a pretty reasonable continuum of partisanship in a generally left-leaning part of the country. Let's look at those numbers in isolation.

1 6 7 10 11* 16

There really aren't any gaps that I'd call inordinately huge here. Vermont is an outlier within this group, sure, but within reason and only to the same extent that New Hampshire is. Completing the 'New York and New England' monolith by adding in Rhode Island gives us another 11, so Vermont has even more company up towards that end.

*New York's PVI is D+11, not D+12 or D+13

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

No; to the contrary, I'd like to see several Canadian provinces join the US

Though the politics geek in me wonders how VT would vote in Canadian elections. 

Maybe something like this?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

No; to the contrary, I'd like to see several Canadian provinces join the US

Though the politics geek in me wonders how VT would vote in Canadian elections. 

Maybe something like this?

Washington and Windham might go NDP as well, but otherwise that seems about right.

[politicallefty]

No way. We need Vermont. If anything, we need more left-wing states. I'd rather Canada give up BC or its Atlantic provinces. Admitting Atlantic Canada as four separate states would be quite good for future Democratic prospects. It wouldn't look too bad on a map either.

[CatoMinor]

Unless we can give New Jersey to Italy.

I second this motion.

[Tayya]

Let's have the Deep South join the Bahamas instead.

[Del Tachi]

Let's have the Deep South join the Bahamas instead.

At that point you're basically reestablishing the Confederacy and giving them a Caribbean protectorate. 

Not sure that's exactly what you were going for...

[Tayya]

Let's have the Deep South join the Bahamas instead.

At that point you're basically reestablishing the Confederacy and giving them a Caribbean protectorate. 

Not sure that's exactly what you were going for...

I guess the Bahamas wouldn't like that. How about Djibouti?

[opebo]

The Big Sort has created a high degree of geographical polarization within the states of the US, yet apparently that sorting isn't enough. Is there nothing to be gained by a diversity of viewpoints within a state or country?

Some of us sorted ourselves right out of the Bad Place.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Unless we can give New Jersey to Italy.

I second this motion.

Support! Hopefully that could give PD a sufficient edge against Berlusconi.

[King of Kensington]

No way. We need Vermont. If anything, we need more left-wing states. I'd rather Canada give up BC or its Atlantic provinces. Admitting Atlantic Canada as four separate states would be quite good for future Democratic prospects. It wouldn't look too bad on a map either.

It's interesting to speculate how Canadian provinces would vote if they were US states.  I don't buy that (outside Quebec) there would be an 85-15 split between Democrats and Republicans (in spite of what these hypothetical scenarios by pollsters say) but they would certainly almost all be Democrat.  Even conservative Alberta would probably be politically similar to Colorado.  And Eastern Ontario is definitely more conservative than Vermont (though Ontario would be a Dem stronghold, obviously).

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

No way. We need Vermont. If anything, we need more left-wing states. I'd rather Canada give up BC or its Atlantic provinces. Admitting Atlantic Canada as four separate states would be quite good for future Democratic prospects. It wouldn't look too bad on a map either.

It's interesting to speculate how Canadian provinces would vote if they were US states.  I don't buy that (outside Quebec) there would be an 85-15 split between Democrats and Republicans (in spite of what these hypothetical scenarios by pollsters say) but they would certainly almost all be Democrat.  Even conservative Alberta would probably be politically similar to Colorado.  And Eastern Ontario is definitely more conservative than Vermont (though Ontario would be a Dem stronghold, obviously).

Well you have to consider that with a much greater land mass and presence of more states, etc., the political axis would have to shift.

[free my dawg]

I wouldn't mind New England splintering off altogether. Especially if Cruz wins in 2016

[DC Al Fine]

No way. We need Vermont. If anything, we need more left-wing states. I'd rather Canada give up BC or its Atlantic provinces. Admitting Atlantic Canada as four separate states would be quite good for future Democratic prospects. It wouldn't look too bad on a map either.

It's interesting to speculate how Canadian provinces would vote if they were US states.  I don't buy that (outside Quebec) there would be an 85-15 split between Democrats and Republicans (in spite of what these hypothetical scenarios by pollsters say) but they would certainly almost all be Democrat.  Even conservative Alberta would probably be politically similar to Colorado.  And Eastern Ontario is definitely more conservative than Vermont (though Ontario would be a Dem stronghold, obviously).

Well you have to consider that with a much greater land mass and presence of more states, etc., the political axis would have to shift.

Indeed. The question is how it would shift.

Suppose we do a bit of handwaving and have Canada annexed with current provincial borders back in the 1800's. Would swing states vote GOP to account for the leftward shift or would the Canadian provinces be more mixed?

[Stranger in a strange land]

No, and Canada isn't the left-wing paradise that American liberal lore holds that it is. Sadly, it will stray ever farther from that ideal as oil sands continue to give Alberta more money, population, and influence.

[DC Al Fine]

No way. We need Vermont. If anything, we need more left-wing states. I'd rather Canada give up BC or its Atlantic provinces. Admitting Atlantic Canada as four separate states would be quite good for future Democratic prospects. It wouldn't look too bad on a map either.

Trying to imagine PEI (Pop. 140 000) as a state

[muon2]

No way. We need Vermont. If anything, we need more left-wing states. I'd rather Canada give up BC or its Atlantic provinces. Admitting Atlantic Canada as four separate states would be quite good for future Democratic prospects. It wouldn't look too bad on a map either.

Trying to imagine PEI (Pop. 140 000) as a state

Each of the Atlantic provinces is smaller than MT, and NL has a smaller population than WY. Taken together the Atlantic provinces would fall somewhere between NM and NV in population. It's hard to imagine the US taking them as four states even if there was such a petition.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Vermont isn't any more like Canada than any other border region.  And no, they shouldn't join Canada.  Unless we can give New Jersey to Italy... cuz New Jersey is getting politically like Italy in my opinion

NO!!!!!  We are not doing this!!!

As for Vermont, another profound NO!  We need more states like Vermont.