Dry counties

[RedSLC]

For those unaware, a dry county is a county where alcohol sales are not permitted (though in nearly all cases, alcohol consumption is still legal, you just can't sell it.) Communities within counties may also choose to go "dry".

Here is a map of dry counties in the United States. Blue is "wet" (alcohol sales permitted), yellow is mixed (contains both "wet" and "dry" communities), and red is entirely "dry".



Personally, while I think that local governments have do, and should, have the right to go "dry", I don't think that they should be used to restrict alcohol sales. Besides having a generally libertarian-ish view on alcohol (as well as other drugs), studies have shown that people who live in these counties who regularly consume alcohol are forced to drive farther to obtain it - and some of those people don't wait to drink it until returning home, which results in them driving drunk, sometimes considerable distances, which increases the likelyhood of accidents.

In short, while they intend to decrease alcohol-related incidences, in practice, they have the opposite effect.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I'm curious what other posters here think.

[TNF]

I live in a dry county. AMA

[RedSLC]

I live in a dry county. AMA

How far do you have to drive to get a liquor store?

[traininthedistance]

There a not-so-delicious irony in Kentucky, the home of America's greatest spirit (bourbon of course), being the most dry state in the nation.  Most of the major distillers are even in dry counties, which is especially cruel.

The yellow is a little misleading, because esp. in the northeast and midwest you'll have counties that are mostly wet but one tiny dry town can flip it to yellow, which is really not the same thing as a "dry county" especially wrt your concerns (having to drive longer distances for booze leading to greater danger on the roads).

In general I'm okay with individual towns and Indian reservations going "dry" if they want but can't really support it at the county level, for the same reasons you give.

EDIT:  Also it's surprising to see no dry or even semi-dry counties in Mormon country (i.e. Utah, eastern Idaho).  I thought Utah had some strict alcohol rules that involved "clubs" and such?

[bedstuy]

Alcohol creates certain negative externalities.  It also brings people pleasure and is perfectly healthy in moderation.  The compromise is clearly to tax alcohol and use the revenue to police and mitigate the negative externalities.  Banning the sale of alcohol is just puritanical meddling by people who hate fun.   

Personally, while I think that local governments have do, and should, have the right to go "dry", I don't think that they should be used to restrict alcohol sales.

What does this mean?  A local government is essentially a corporation created by a state government.  They have the power to regulate what the state allows them to regulate. 

[TNF]

I live in a dry county. AMA

How far do you have to drive to get a liquor store?

Twenty minutes. The town I go to college in went wet last summer. My county narrowly stayed dry.

[Indy Texas]

Tip of the hat to Utahans for choosing not to interfere with people's alcohol purchasing/consumption decisions, even if most of them don't touch the stuff themselves. If only the Baptists had such consistency.

What about WV and LA?

[TNF]

Tip of the hat to Utahans for choosing not to interfere with people's alcohol purchasing/consumption decisions, even if most of them don't touch the stuff themselves. If only the Baptists had such consistency.

What about WV and LA?

Speaking as someone who is (technically) a Southern Baptist, I can assure you that all the conjecture about Baptists denouncing liquor and then running into one another at the liquor store is definitely grounded in reality.

[RedSLC]

There a not-so-delicious irony in Kentucky, the home of America's greatest spirit (bourbon of course), being the most dry state in the nation.  Most of the major distillers are even in dry counties, which is especially cruel.

The yellow is a little misleading, because esp. in the northeast and midwest you'll have counties that are mostly wet but one tiny dry town can flip it to yellow, which is really not the same thing as a "dry county" especially wrt your concerns (having to drive longer distances for booze leading to greater danger on the roads).

In general I'm okay with individual towns and Indian reservations going "dry" if they want but can't really support it at the county level, for the same reasons you give.

Yeah, I was confused by that when I first saw this map, too. For example, in Cook County, which is shown as a mixed county, nearly every locality is "wet", with the only dry community being South Holland, a suburb that was originally founded by Dutch Reformed immigrants. It makes up just under half a percent of Cook County's population.

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That's because alcohol sales in those states are predominantly under state control. In Idaho, sales of packaged alcohol is under control of the state government, and pretty much all alcohol-related laws are made by the state in Utah. Neither of them have actually decided to outright prohibit sales (although they have put restrictions in place on things like how you can sell it and how you can advertise it).

Also, that one mixed county in Nevada only has one dry community, the CDP of Panaca, which is only dry because it was originally part of Utah, and was grandfathered into state law (besides this exception, the state requires each county to issue alcohol licenses).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Quite a few states have laws that don't allow dry counties, Utah and Idaho being two of them. And if you're familiar with their liquor laws the reason is quite obvious, both are "control states" (meaning the state has a monopoly on the wholesaling of alcohol) and thus allowing any counties to go dry would deny the state a source of a income.

Illinois by the way is also a state where the law doesn't allow municipalities to go dry so Cook County should be blue. There is a small town in it that has a law from the 19th century on the books prohibiting liquor sales and stores but state law trumps it and everyone agrees it would be struck down if it was ever actually challenged.

I support not allowing them. I don't see any benefit to dry counties whatsoever. It's about as logical as laws against marijuana.

Reservations going dry by the way is a REALLY bad idea. The Reservation I lived on did so for a very brief time (about six months) and it was an unmitigated disaster. It was basically all the problems with Prohibition and modern day drug prohibition boosted plus even a black market of trucks driving around town and stopping on blocks and acting as sort of a Schwann's for alcohol since many people didn't own cars/couldn't drive (my parents admitted to buying from the black market a few times since there was times they wanted to buy some and they weren't off Reservation.) The law was then unanimously repealed.

[DINGO Joe]

Tip of the hat to Utahans for choosing not to interfere with people's alcohol purchasing/consumption decisions, even if most of them don't touch the stuff themselves. If only the Baptists had such consistency.

What about WV and LA?

Can't speak for N. Louisiana (though I'm certain it's all wet) but the south part of the state and the New Orleans area in particular have incredible minimal laws about selling alcohol.  Louisiana was also the last state to raise the drinking age to 21, and only did so because they would have lost road money from the Feds--Reagan blackmailed the states into raising the age.

I actually turned legal three times in my life, 18 in Louisiana, 19 in Texas, and 21 in Texas because Texas was such a dick of a state that when they raised the age they didn't include a grandfather clause.

[RedSLC]

Quite a few states have laws that don't allow dry counties, Utah and Idaho being two of them. And if you're familiar with their liquor laws the reason is quite obvious, both are "control states" (meaning the state has a monopoly on the wholesaling of alcohol) and thus allowing any counties to go dry would deny the state a source of a income.

Illinois by the way is also a state where the law doesn't allow municipalities to go dry so Cook County should be blue. There is a small town in it that has a law from the 19th century on the books prohibiting liquor sales and stores but state law trumps it and everyone agrees it would be struck down if it was ever actually challenged.

Here are the 17 states that effectively prohibit dry counties:

-Arizona
-Hawaii
-Illinois (though the aforementioned village, South Holland, is able to get around this by not issuing alcohol licenses)
-Indiana
-Iowa
-Maryland
-Missouri
-Montana
-Nebraska
-Nevada (with the exception of Panaca, which is dry via grandfathering)
-North Dakota
-Oklahoma (despite what the map shows, they've apparently enacted alcohol legislation that trumps municipal and county law).
-Oregon
-Pennsylvania
-South Carolina
-Utah
-Wyoming

Also, Idaho allows localities to prohibit on-premises sales, but not off-premises sales, which effectively prevents any "fully" dry localities from existing.

[DINGO Joe]

And yet, Pennsylvania has some of the most byzantine alcohol purchasing laws I've ever encountered.

[traininthedistance]

Quite a few states have laws that don't allow dry counties, Utah and Idaho being two of them. And if you're familiar with their liquor laws the reason is quite obvious, both are "control states" (meaning the state has a monopoly on the wholesaling of alcohol) and thus allowing any counties to go dry would deny the state a source of a income.

But Pennsylvania is a control state and there's a lot of yellow on the map in PA?

Here are the 17 states that effectively prohibit dry counties:

-Arizona
-Hawaii
-Illinois (though the aforementioned village, South Holland, is able to get around this by not issuing alcohol licenses)
-Indiana
-Iowa
-Maryland
-Missouri
-Montana
-Nebraska
-Nevada (with the exception of Panaca, which is dry via grandfathering)
-North Dakota
-Oklahoma (despite what the map shows, they've apparently enacted alcohol legislation that trumps municipal and county law).
-Oregon
-Pennsylvania
-South Carolina
-Utah
-Wyoming

Also, Idaho allows localities to prohibit on-premises sales, but not off-premises sales, which effectively prevents any "fully" dry localities from existing.

Is the map just wrong for PA then?

[DC Al Fine]

Tip of the hat to Utahans for choosing not to interfere with people's alcohol purchasing/consumption decisions, even if most of them don't touch the stuff themselves. If only the Baptists had such consistency.

What about WV and LA?

Speaking as someone who is (technically) a Southern Baptist, I can assure you that all the conjecture about Baptists denouncing liquor and then running into one another at the liquor store is definitely grounded in reality.

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God.
Protestants don't recognize the Pope as head of the church.
Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

[ElectionsGuy]

As much as I dislike prohibiting the sales of alcohol, this is a policy I would happily leave up to the counties and local municipalities to decide. Even if it is confusing for out-of-towners to know the specific dry counties.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

While looking over some religious jokes because of some of the other posts in this thread, I came across this some that while not about alcohol struck my funny bone:
A Jewish man was growing nervous. His son was coming of age and his 13th year
was drawing closer. The Jewish father was concerned that his young son was not
well versed in the Jewish faith and wanted to better educate him on ihs roots
before his bar mitzvah. The father decided to send his young son to Israel to see their homeland and study his heritage.

It later came time for the young boy to return home. The boy came in and fell to his fathers feet thanking him over and over for sending him to Israel. "Ohhh father" he exclaimed excitedly "I learned so much while I was there...but I have some bad news" pausing a second or so he concluded "While I was there I converted to Christianity."

The father fell to his knees "OHHH NOOOO What have I done??" Worried he hurried over to his closest friends house. After explaining what happened to him his friend replied "Funny you should bring this to me...I also sent my son to Israel..and he TOO converted to Christianity."

The two friends almost in a panick decided they must immediatly go to the Rabbi and ask for guidance. After explaining the Rabbi replied "Funny you should bring this to me..I TOO sent my son to Israel and he ALSO converted to Christianity."

All three men in unison fell to their knees and blurted out prayers to God begging for guidance. God quietly replied "Funny you should bring this to me...I TOO sent my son to Israel..."
When Ole moved up north he discovered that he was the only Lutheran in his new little town of all Catholics. That was okay, but the neighbors had a problem with his barbecuing venison every Friday during the Lenten season, for it was torture for them. Since they couldn't eat meat on Friday, the tempting aroma was getting the best of them.

Hoping they could do something to stop this, the neighbors got together and went over to talk to Ole, eventually persuading him to join their church. The big day came and the priest had Ole kneel. He put his hand on Ole's head and said, “Ole, you were born a Lutheran, you were raised a Lutheran, and now,” he said as he sprinkled some incense over Ole's head, “now you are a Catholic!”

Ole was happy and the neighbors were happy. But the following Friday evening at suppertime, there was again that aroma of grilled deer steaks coming from Ole's yard. The neighbors went to talk to him about this and as they approached the fence, they heard Ole saying: “You were born a whitetail, you were raised a whitetail, and now.” he said as he sprinkled seasoning salt over the choice tenderloin cut, “now you are a trout!”
Why are Unitarian Universalists such poor hymn singers?

They're always reading ahead to see if they agree with the lines!
A Lutheran pastor and his wife were driving along Lake Shore Drive, in Chicago, and they were pulled over for speeding. As officer O'Malley approached the pastor, he saw the pastor's clerics, and mistook him for a Roman Catholic priest. “Oh, sorry about dat, fader. Uh, just try and slow it down a little, OK?”

As they drove away, the pastor's wife said, “Shame on you, Harold! That was unethical. You know who he thought you were!”

“Oh, I know who he thought I was,” replied the pastor. “I'm just wondering who he thought you were.”
So Jesus was sitting by the Temple in Jerusalem one day when suddenly a crowd comes roaring down the street chasing a woman. They back the woman up against the wall and are about to stone her, screaming that she was an adulteress. Just then the Pharisees intervened, seizing upon the opportunity to trap Jesus. “So, Rabbi, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. The law says she should be stoned. What do you say?”

Jesus kept looking at the ground and drawing in the dirt. He drew in the dirt and he drew in the dirt. Finally he looked up and said, “Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.” Everything was silent, then one by one you could hear the stones thud as they were dropped on the ground. But SUDDENLY a big rock comes whizzing right by Jesus' head! It barely missed him! Then Jesus cried, “MO-O-O-M!!!”
There was a Scottish tradesman, a painter called Jack, who was very interested in making a pound where he could. So he often would thin down his paint to make it go a wee bit further. As it happened, he got away with this for some time. Eventually the Presbyterian Church decided to do a big restoration job on one of their biggest churches. Jack put in a painting bid and because his price was so competitive, he got the job. And so he set to, with a right good will, erecting the trestles and putting up the planks, and buying the paint and…yes, I am sorry to say, thinning it down with the turpentine. Well, Jack was up on the scaffolding, painting away, the job nearly done, when suddenly there was a horrendous clap of thunder. The sky opened and the rain poured down, washing the thin paint from all over the church and knocking Jack fair off the scaffold to land on the lawn. Now, Jack was no fool. He knew this was a judgment from the Almighty, so he fell on his knees and cried, “Oh, God! Forgive me! What should I do?” And from the thunder, a mighty Voice spoke, “Repaint! Repaint! And thin no more!”
After twenty years of shaving himself every morning, a man in a small Southern town decided he had had enough. He told his wife that he intended to let the local barber shave him each day. He put on his hat and coat and went to the barber shop which was owned by the pastor of the local Baptist Church. The barber's wife, Grace, was working, so she performed the task. Grace shaved him and sprayed him with lilac water and said, “That will be $50.”

The man thought the price was a bit high, but he paid the bill and went to work. The next morning the man looked in the mirror, and his face was as smooth as it had been when he left the barber shop the day before. Not bad, he thought. At least I don't need to get a shave every day. The next morning, the man's face was still smooth. Two weeks later, the man was still unable to find any trace of whiskers on his face. It was more than he could take, so he returned to the barber shop. “I thought $50 was high for a shave”, he told the barber's wife, ''ut you must have done a great job. It's been two weeks and my whiskers still haven't started growing back.”

The expression on her face didn't even change, expecting his comment. She responded, “You were shaved by Grace. Once shaved, always shaved.”

A new pastor was visiting in the homes of his parishioners. At one house it seemed obvious that someone was at home, but no answer came to his repeated knocks at the door. Therefore, he took out a business card and wrote 'Revelation 3:20' on the back of it and stuck it in the door. When the offering was processed the following Sunday, he found that his card had been returned. Added to it was this cryptic message, 'Genesis 3:10'. Reaching for his Bible to check out the citation, he broke up in gales of laughter. Revelation 3:20 begins  'Behold, I stand at the door and knock.' Genesis 3:10 reads, 'I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid for I was naked.'

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

And yet, Pennsylvania has some of the most byzantine alcohol purchasing laws I've ever encountered.

Yep.  Only a few of the state run liquor stores are open on Sunday (the gigantic super-stores are open), but wtf, why can't I buy liquor when and where I want it.

They only recently permitted Sunday sales at beer distributorships, and you have to have a Sunday license if you're a bar/restaurant...

Effing archaic.

[DemPGH]

"Dry" and "wet" is a bit of a misnomer. I live in a yellow county, and my house is well "envined." I live near several state stores - there are plenty of them in the sticks as well, and while they could have expanded hours, I'm quite satisfied with them.

This is about people wanting to get beer at Wal-Mart or whatever, and that's fine with me. But in PA we have two opposite extremes on the liquor issue, and when we have Republicans in a blue collar state like this who won't go along with privatization, there are clearly problems. And there are.

[opebo]

Finally, a map that makes Missouri look quite good.

[angus]

Apparently I lived in a mixed county.  The nearest Liquor store is about 600 meters.  The nearest "Beer Distributor" is about 2 miles.  The nearest restaurant that sells beer is next door to the liquor store, about 600 meters.  That restaurant has about 20 different beers on tap and, according to the sign on the window, at least 100 bottled brands.

Byzantine, yes.

[Adam Griffin]

Some of these states' definitions of "dry" are a bit inconsistent. Take Tennessee for instance. By default, every jurisdiction in Tennessee is dry (as defined by no sales of wine or liquor), but beer is universally allowed. Ergo, a dry county or city in Tennessee still has beer sales. Municipalities and counties are free to pass referendums that allow for wine, liquor by the drink and package sales. You can't buy wine in a supermarket in Tennessee (ridiculous).

On the map, I've spotted a few errors in the SE TN counties - both Polk and Bradley should be yellow/mixed.

[Del Tachi]

Despite being a "control state" the Mississippi map is entirely correct.  The State owns and operates all liquor stores but the county gives the licenses.  Therefore, the county can basically "deny" the State the ability to operate a liquor store within its borders.  This actually makes good sense, as it allows the super socially conservative counties (i.e., northeast Mississippi) to go completely dry as their residents would have them to but preserves a source of income for the State in the more "progressive" counties.   

Having to drive-over into the next county to get alcohol is a Mississippi tradition. 

[RosettaStoned]

 Wow...I would hate to live in Kentucky!