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Akno21
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2005, 07:04:15 pm »
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It was memorial. End of discussion. Not a political rally.

Harking got up there and was turning it political. He was turning it into "Let's show them! Those big bad Republicans won't win this! We'll show them!" and the fact that members of the Republican leadership took time out of their schedule to go to this memorial and were booed was disgraceful.

Do you have a copy of his speech?

The part that I thought went over the top was when Wellstone's friend, Rick Hahn, told Republicans to honor your friend and win the election for Paul Wellstone. That was a bit crazy.

How are you going to stop tens of thousands of people from chanting "Fritz, Fritz, Fritz!" when Walter Mondale steps out. As I said, the event was dominated by liberals, and the crowd was basically the liberal base of Minnesota. The liberal base of Minnesota is not going to heartily cheer Bill Frist.

Going back to the Santorum dying scenerio, I'm assuming you would stand up and cheer for Hillary Clinton and any other Democrat who appears at the Santorum memorial.

Overall, I think you simply fail to grasp the emotion that was in that building that night.

This was a public memorial, not a private funeral. The Democrats didn't encourage the crowd to boo the Republicans. It happened. The liberal base of Minnesota booed the republicans. The actual Democratic party candidates/elected officals did not. The Wellstone people did not expect that to happen, they had to revert from last week campaigning to planning a memorial, funeral, and everything else in the matter of days.

I wouldn't cheer Hillary but I wouldn't act like inappropriate either.

What you're failing to grasp is the fact that it was a memorial and the behavior was out of line. It was so out of line that we now have a Senate seat because of it. Now tell me how liberal Minnesotans are.

When did I say Minnesotans were liberal? I said it was the liberal base at the memorial.

The whole crowd did not boo the republicans. Here is the video.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/#

Trent Lott appears at at 01:18:22. Right before that they show Clinton and Kennedy, and the crowd goes nuts with cheers. When Lott comes up, there are no cheers, but no boos like the cheers for Clinton and Kennedy before.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2005, 07:21:44 pm »
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It was memorial. End of discussion. Not a political rally.

Harking got up there and was turning it political. He was turning it into "Let's show them! Those big bad Republicans won't win this! We'll show them!" and the fact that members of the Republican leadership took time out of their schedule to go to this memorial and were booed was disgraceful.

Do you have a copy of his speech?

The part that I thought went over the top was when Wellstone's friend, Rick Hahn, told Republicans to honor your friend and win the election for Paul Wellstone. That was a bit crazy.

How are you going to stop tens of thousands of people from chanting "Fritz, Fritz, Fritz!" when Walter Mondale steps out. As I said, the event was dominated by liberals, and the crowd was basically the liberal base of Minnesota. The liberal base of Minnesota is not going to heartily cheer Bill Frist.

Going back to the Santorum dying scenerio, I'm assuming you would stand up and cheer for Hillary Clinton and any other Democrat who appears at the Santorum memorial.

Overall, I think you simply fail to grasp the emotion that was in that building that night.

This was a public memorial, not a private funeral. The Democrats didn't encourage the crowd to boo the Republicans. It happened. The liberal base of Minnesota booed the republicans. The actual Democratic party candidates/elected officals did not. The Wellstone people did not expect that to happen, they had to revert from last week campaigning to planning a memorial, funeral, and everything else in the matter of days.

I wouldn't cheer Hillary but I wouldn't act like inappropriate either.

What you're failing to grasp is the fact that it was a memorial and the behavior was out of line. It was so out of line that we now have a Senate seat because of it. Now tell me how liberal Minnesotans are.

When did I say Minnesotans were liberal? I said it was the liberal base at the memorial.

The whole crowd did not boo the republicans. Here is the video.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/#

Trent Lott appears at at 01:18:22. Right before that they show Clinton and Kennedy, and the crowd goes nuts with cheers. When Lott comes up, there are no cheers, but no boos like the cheers for Clinton and Kennedy before.

There was enough inappropriate behavior that occured for Ventura to comment out how outraged he was about the whole thing the next day.
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Akno21
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2005, 08:00:41 pm »
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When did I say Minnesotans were liberal? I said it was the liberal base at the memorial.

The whole crowd did not boo the republicans. Here is the video.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/#

Trent Lott appears at at 01:18:22. Right before that they show Clinton and Kennedy, and the crowd goes nuts with cheers. When Lott comes up, there are no cheers, but no boos like the cheers for Clinton and Kennedy before.

Quote
There was enough inappropriate behavior that occured for Ventura to comment out how outraged he was about the whole thing the next day.

Did you hear any boos for Lott that were at all comparable to the loud cheering that took place for Clinton and Kennedy? Did you even listen to the recording on the video?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 08:14:21 pm by Akno21 »Logged

Akno21
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2005, 08:15:01 pm »
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Phil, I gave you the real event, on video, and you insist on believing Jesse Ventura when you can just watch the event yourself?
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2005, 08:29:34 pm »
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When did I say Minnesotans were liberal? I said it was the liberal base at the memorial.

The whole crowd did not boo the republicans. Here is the video.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/#

Trent Lott appears at at 01:18:22. Right before that they show Clinton and Kennedy, and the crowd goes nuts with cheers. When Lott comes up, there are no cheers, but no boos like the cheers for Clinton and Kennedy before.

Quote
There was enough inappropriate behavior that occured for Ventura to comment out how outraged he was about the whole thing the next day.

Did you hear any boos for Lott that were at all comparable to the loud cheering that took place for Clinton and Kennedy? Did you even listen to the recording on the video?

Was that a recording of the whole event? No, I don't believe so. There were times when Lott was booed. This event didn't turn into a big deal for no reason, Akno.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2005, 08:30:38 pm »
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Phil, I gave you the real event, on video, and you insist on believing Jesse Ventura when you can just watch the event yourself?

I watched it on TV, I watched Ventura, I watched others. Why are you denying the outcry about the event? You realize that that event was one of the main reasons why you lost the seat, right?
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Akno21
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« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2005, 08:41:42 pm »
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Phil, I gave you the real event, on video, and you insist on believing Jesse Ventura when you can just watch the event yourself?

I watched it on TV, I watched Ventura, I watched others. Why are you denying the outcry about the event? You realize that that event was one of the main reasons why you lost the seat, right?

I'm not denying the outcry. I'm saying it was not a fair representation of the event. We also lost the seat because Walter Mondale at age 80 something is no Paul Wellstone.

Listen to the part where Lott was shown, do you hear 16,000 people booing?
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Akno21
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« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2005, 08:44:02 pm »
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When did I say Minnesotans were liberal? I said it was the liberal base at the memorial.

The whole crowd did not boo the republicans. Here is the video.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/#

Trent Lott appears at at 01:18:22. Right before that they show Clinton and Kennedy, and the crowd goes nuts with cheers. When Lott comes up, there are no cheers, but no boos like the cheers for Clinton and Kennedy before.

Quote
There was enough inappropriate behavior that occured for Ventura to comment out how outraged he was about the whole thing the next day.

Did you hear any boos for Lott that were at all comparable to the loud cheering that took place for Clinton and Kennedy? Did you even listen to the recording on the video?

Was that a recording of the whole event? No, I don't believe so. There were times when Lott was booed. This event didn't turn into a big deal for no reason, Akno.

It had over 4 hours on it.

Here's a more direct version.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/openchannel.cfm
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« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2005, 10:04:35 pm »
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When did I say Minnesotans were liberal? I said it was the liberal base at the memorial.

The whole crowd did not boo the republicans. Here is the video.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/#

Trent Lott appears at at 01:18:22. Right before that they show Clinton and Kennedy, and the crowd goes nuts with cheers. When Lott comes up, there are no cheers, but no boos like the cheers for Clinton and Kennedy before.

Quote
There was enough inappropriate behavior that occured for Ventura to comment out how outraged he was about the whole thing the next day.

Did you hear any boos for Lott that were at all comparable to the loud cheering that took place for Clinton and Kennedy? Did you even listen to the recording on the video?

Was that a recording of the whole event? No, I don't believe so. There were times when Lott was booed. This event didn't turn into a big deal for no reason, Akno.

It had over 4 hours on it.

Here's a more direct version.

http://shows.implex.tv/Wellstone/openchannel.cfm

And there was no editing or anything like that? Sorry, Akno, but I'm very skeptical of this tape recording nothing and then all this public outcry. It doesn't make sense.
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« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2005, 10:58:33 pm »
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And there was no editing or anything like that? Sorry, Akno, but I'm very skeptical of this tape recording nothing and then all this public outcry. It doesn't make sense.

If you listen carefully you can hear some scattered boos. The vast majority of the crowd clearly did not like Trent Lott. If you're running a 30 second clip trying to prove it was a political rally, there certainly are enough bits and pieces to cut from, a few of Harkin's final comments, some of the stuff from Rick Hahn, etc. It was a perfect opportunity for the right wing to use to their advantage, and they did.

Do you have any other recordings of the event? The tape is almost 4 1/2 hours long, I'm not sure how long the thing was, but it couldn't have been much longer than that.

A related question. If the event was such a political rally, how come Fritz Mondale was barely mentioned? True, there was some, win this election for Paul Wellstone type of stuff, but nothing that really said go out and vote Mondale, which would have made it more political. IIRC, the only time Mondale was even mentioned was when his picture went up on the big screen and the crowd cheered.
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2005, 11:00:53 pm »
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And there was no editing or anything like that? Sorry, Akno, but I'm very skeptical of this tape recording nothing and then all this public outcry. It doesn't make sense.

If you listen carefully you can hear some scattered boos. The vast majority of the crowd clearly did not like Trent Lott. If you're running a 30 second clip trying to prove it was a political rally, there certainly are enough bits and pieces to cut from, a few of Harkin's final comments, some of the stuff from Rick Hahn, etc. It was a perfect opportunity for the right wing to use to their advantage, and they did.

Do you have any other recordings of the event? The tape is almost 4 1/2 hours long, I'm not sure how long the thing was, but it couldn't have been much longer than that.

A related question. If the event was such a political rally, how come Fritz Mondale was barely mentioned? True, there was some, win this election for Paul Wellstone type of stuff, but nothing that really said go out and vote Mondale, which would have made it more political. IIRC, the only time Mondale was even mentioned was when his picture went up on the big screen and the crowd cheered.

It would have made it more political by mentioning Mondale's name but it was political enough with all that was going on. It was disgraceful. I'm not changing my opinion on that.
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Akno21
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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2005, 11:31:21 pm »
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And there was no editing or anything like that? Sorry, Akno, but I'm very skeptical of this tape recording nothing and then all this public outcry. It doesn't make sense.

If you listen carefully you can hear some scattered boos. The vast majority of the crowd clearly did not like Trent Lott. If you're running a 30 second clip trying to prove it was a political rally, there certainly are enough bits and pieces to cut from, a few of Harkin's final comments, some of the stuff from Rick Hahn, etc. It was a perfect opportunity for the right wing to use to their advantage, and they did.

Do you have any other recordings of the event? The tape is almost 4 1/2 hours long, I'm not sure how long the thing was, but it couldn't have been much longer than that.

A related question. If the event was such a political rally, how come Fritz Mondale was barely mentioned? True, there was some, win this election for Paul Wellstone type of stuff, but nothing that really said go out and vote Mondale, which would have made it more political. IIRC, the only time Mondale was even mentioned was when his picture went up on the big screen and the crowd cheered.

It would have made it more political by mentioning Mondale's name but it was political enough with all that was going on. It was disgraceful. I'm not changing my opinion on that.

You say it was disgraceful because Jesse Ventura and others say it was disgraceful. Just watch the video, or obtain written parts of the speeches, find the disgraceful stuff. I wouldn't mind actually seeing what lines you consider disgraceful, but you seem unable to produce them.
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2005, 01:10:13 pm »
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And there was no editing or anything like that? Sorry, Akno, but I'm very skeptical of this tape recording nothing and then all this public outcry. It doesn't make sense.

If you listen carefully you can hear some scattered boos. The vast majority of the crowd clearly did not like Trent Lott. If you're running a 30 second clip trying to prove it was a political rally, there certainly are enough bits and pieces to cut from, a few of Harkin's final comments, some of the stuff from Rick Hahn, etc. It was a perfect opportunity for the right wing to use to their advantage, and they did.

Do you have any other recordings of the event? The tape is almost 4 1/2 hours long, I'm not sure how long the thing was, but it couldn't have been much longer than that.

A related question. If the event was such a political rally, how come Fritz Mondale was barely mentioned? True, there was some, win this election for Paul Wellstone type of stuff, but nothing that really said go out and vote Mondale, which would have made it more political. IIRC, the only time Mondale was even mentioned was when his picture went up on the big screen and the crowd cheered.

It would have made it more political by mentioning Mondale's name but it was political enough with all that was going on. It was disgraceful. I'm not changing my opinion on that.

You say it was disgraceful because Jesse Ventura and others say it was disgraceful. Just watch the video, or obtain written parts of the speeches, find the disgraceful stuff. I wouldn't mind actually seeing what lines you consider disgraceful, but you seem unable to produce them.

No, I said it was disgraceful because of the booing, because of the partisan scream fest at a memorial service. I said Minnesotans agreed with me and the Ventura comments (along with others) proved that.
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Akno21
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« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2005, 03:28:24 pm »
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No, I said it was disgraceful because of the booing, because of the partisan scream fest at a memorial service. I said Minnesotans agreed with me and the Ventura comments (along with others) proved that.

What booing? Can you give me the time, on the only recording we have available at this point, where a Republican is booed? Which lines were partisan? If a senate colleague is making a positive speech about Wellstone, it is obviously going to include stuff about he worked for progressive principles. Duh.

To eliminate all political references, you might as well only let his neighbors speak about how he always took his trash out to the curb and made sure his dog never went off his property or some totally inconsequential stuff like that. The only stuff that could really be taken out is the let's win this election for Paul Wellstones stuff.

Finally, do you believe the Wellstone people intended for the event to be a political rally?
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« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2005, 03:47:14 pm »
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No, I said it was disgraceful because of the booing, because of the partisan scream fest at a memorial service. I said Minnesotans agreed with me and the Ventura comments (along with others) proved that.

What booing? Can you give me the time, on the only recording we have available at this point, where a Republican is booed? Which lines were partisan? If a senate colleague is making a positive speech about Wellstone, it is obviously going to include stuff about he worked for progressive principles. Duh.

To eliminate all political references, you might as well only let his neighbors speak about how he always took his trash out to the curb and made sure his dog never went off his property or some totally inconsequential stuff like that. The only stuff that could really be taken out is the let's win this election for Paul Wellstones stuff.

Finally, do you believe the Wellstone people intended for the event to be a political rally?

When I say partisan, I mean it came across as bashing. Harkin, Wellstone's friend...they were turning it into something it shouldn't have been.

As for the Wellstone people, I don't know what they wanted. I'm just blaming the clowns that turned it into a disgraceful event. They turned it into a hostile event while members of the GOP were in attendance. Then again, I thank them for allowing us to pick up another seat. Like I said earlier, I'm sticking to my belief that some of the lines were uncalled for at times.

(My 7,000th post! Smiley )
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« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2005, 03:54:25 pm »
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No, I said it was disgraceful because of the booing, because of the partisan scream fest at a memorial service. I said Minnesotans agreed with me and the Ventura comments (along with others) proved that.

What booing? Can you give me the time, on the only recording we have available at this point, where a Republican is booed? Which lines were partisan? If a senate colleague is making a positive speech about Wellstone, it is obviously going to include stuff about he worked for progressive principles. Duh.

To eliminate all political references, you might as well only let his neighbors speak about how he always took his trash out to the curb and made sure his dog never went off his property or some totally inconsequential stuff like that. The only stuff that could really be taken out is the let's win this election for Paul Wellstones stuff.

Finally, do you believe the Wellstone people intended for the event to be a political rally?

When I say partisan, I mean it came across as bashing. Harkin, Wellstone's friend...they were turning it into something it shouldn't have been.

As for the Wellstone people, I don't know what they wanted. I'm just blaming the clowns that turned it into a disgraceful event. They turned it into a hostile event while members of the GOP were in attendance. Then again, I thank them for allowing us to pick up another seat. Like I said earlier, I'm sticking to my belief that some of the lines were uncalled for at times.

(My 7,000th post! Smiley )

It was not an anti-Republican speech by Harkin. It was pro-Wellstone, and therefore turned into pro-Democrat.

You have yet to find any specific lines that you consider to be uncalled for.

Congrats Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2005, 03:58:25 pm »
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No, I said it was disgraceful because of the booing, because of the partisan scream fest at a memorial service. I said Minnesotans agreed with me and the Ventura comments (along with others) proved that.

What booing? Can you give me the time, on the only recording we have available at this point, where a Republican is booed? Which lines were partisan? If a senate colleague is making a positive speech about Wellstone, it is obviously going to include stuff about he worked for progressive principles. Duh.

To eliminate all political references, you might as well only let his neighbors speak about how he always took his trash out to the curb and made sure his dog never went off his property or some totally inconsequential stuff like that. The only stuff that could really be taken out is the let's win this election for Paul Wellstones stuff.

Finally, do you believe the Wellstone people intended for the event to be a political rally?

When I say partisan, I mean it came across as bashing. Harkin, Wellstone's friend...they were turning it into something it shouldn't have been.

As for the Wellstone people, I don't know what they wanted. I'm just blaming the clowns that turned it into a disgraceful event. They turned it into a hostile event while members of the GOP were in attendance. Then again, I thank them for allowing us to pick up another seat. Like I said earlier, I'm sticking to my belief that some of the lines were uncalled for at times.

(My 7,000th post! Smiley )



You have yet to find any specific lines that you consider to be uncalled for.

Congrats Smiley

I will go through later and find the specific quotes. Now here's my question to you: You said you found the event disgraceful at times, correct? The people of MN found it disgraceful, too, isn't that right? What do you think their reasoning for it being disgraceful is and what is your reasoning?
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« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2005, 05:20:14 pm »
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I will go through later and find the specific quotes. Now here's my question to you: You said you found the event disgraceful at times, correct? The people of MN found it disgraceful, too, isn't that right? What do you think their reasoning for it being disgraceful is and what is your reasoning?

I did not feel the "Let's go out and win this election for Paul Wellstone" type of moments were appropriate. They may have been playing to the crowd, but that doesn't excuse them.

They found it disgraceful because that was the story the media told. And the event was done in a way where you could play a 5 second clip of Harkin screaming, and you'd agree with the opinion it was disgraceful. Snap shots don't tell the whole story, but there were some snap shots that certainly didn't help the Democrats. They thought it was a political rally (it wasn't, but could VERY EASILY be portrayed as one) and obvously a memorial service should not be a political rally.
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« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2005, 05:24:41 pm »
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I will go through later and find the specific quotes. Now here's my question to you: You said you found the event disgraceful at times, correct? The people of MN found it disgraceful, too, isn't that right? What do you think their reasoning for it being disgraceful is and what is your reasoning?

I did not feel the "Let's go out and win this election for Paul Wellstone" type of moments were appropriate. They may have been playing to the crowd, but that doesn't excuse them.

They found it disgraceful because that was the story the media told. And the event was done in a way where you could play a 5 second clip of Harkin screaming, and you'd agree with the opinion it was disgraceful. Snap shots don't tell the whole story, but there were some snap shots that certainly didn't help the Democrats. They thought it was a political rally (it wasn't, but could VERY EASILY be portrayed as one) and obvously a memorial service should not be a political rally.

Akno, it turned into a political rally.
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« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2005, 05:53:53 pm »
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I will go through later and find the specific quotes. Now here's my question to you: You said you found the event disgraceful at times, correct? The people of MN found it disgraceful, too, isn't that right? What do you think their reasoning for it being disgraceful is and what is your reasoning?

I did not feel the "Let's go out and win this election for Paul Wellstone" type of moments were appropriate. They may have been playing to the crowd, but that doesn't excuse them.

They found it disgraceful because that was the story the media told. And the event was done in a way where you could play a 5 second clip of Harkin screaming, and you'd agree with the opinion it was disgraceful. Snap shots don't tell the whole story, but there were some snap shots that certainly didn't help the Democrats. They thought it was a political rally (it wasn't, but could VERY EASILY be portrayed as one) and obvously a memorial service should not be a political rally.

Akno, it turned into a political rally.

For parts of it, yes it did. However, it was still a memorial for Paul Wellstone, not a rally for Walter Mondale.
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« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2005, 06:01:53 pm »
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Enough of this Wellstone debate.  Either way I still feel sorry for Walter Mondale.
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« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2005, 06:02:41 pm »
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Enough of this Wellstone debate.  Either way I still feel sorry for Walter Mondale.

I agree.
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« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2005, 10:22:06 am »
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Enough of this Wellstone debate.  Either way I still feel sorry for Walter Mondale.

I agree.

^^^

Seeing as Ventura's been mentioned, anyone else read Garrison Keillor's spoof of him? Grin
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« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2005, 06:05:19 pm »
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I will go through later and find the specific quotes.

Bump for Phil.
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« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2005, 06:10:43 pm »
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I will go through later and find the specific quotes.

Bump for Phil.

Ignored by Phil. I figured the argument was over.
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