Ukraine Crisis
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Author Topic: Ukraine Crisis  (Read 233906 times)
Cory
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« Reply #150 on: February 21, 2014, 07:08:27 PM »
« edited: February 21, 2014, 07:10:13 PM by Cory »

So we should just embrace geopolitical sociopathy instead of backing away from it?

If only life were that simple. "Geo-political sociopathy" is geo-politics. Not to say there isn't room for humanitarianism (for example I think we should've intervened in Rwanda) but at the end of the day we have to do what is necessary lest our enemies gain the upper hand.

Spoken like a true HP. Congratulations.

Sorry real life is to "mean" for your tastes.

So does anybody have any factual disagreements with my assertion?
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Franzl
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« Reply #151 on: February 21, 2014, 07:14:34 PM »

So we should just embrace geopolitical sociopathy instead of backing away from it?

If only life were that simple. "Geo-political sociopathy" is geo-politics. Not to say there isn't room for humanitarianism (for example I think we should've intervened in Rwanda) but at the end of the day we have to do what is necessary lest our enemies gain the upper hand.

Spoken like a true HP. Congratulations.

Sorry real life is to "mean" for your tastes.

So does anybody have any factual disagreements with my assertion?

You misunderstand me. I'm not commenting on what may or may not influence American foreign policy. Rather, I'm personally identifying you as an HP, the reasons for which you've demonstrated quite well in this thread. I imagine you won't have the slightest idea why, but that's ok.
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Cory
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« Reply #152 on: February 21, 2014, 07:23:17 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2014, 07:29:01 PM by Cory »

You misunderstand me. I'm not commenting on what may or may not influence American foreign policy. Rather, I'm personally identifying you as an HP, the reasons for which you've demonstrated quite well in this thread. I imagine you won't have the slightest idea why, but that's ok.

I'm sorry if the type of cynicism that's required to make foreign policy for a major power is too much for you to understand. This isn't exactly anything new.

And of course you haven't demonstrated actual factual reasons to disagree with my assertion so whatever.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #153 on: February 21, 2014, 07:29:31 PM »

Security services have opened a criminal case against the mayor of Kharkiv for promoting separatism.
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
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« Reply #154 on: February 21, 2014, 09:34:39 PM »

1989 called. They want their approach to foreign policy back (duh-dum-ching).

It's not a Cold War thing. This is how it's always been done. It's like does anyone really think the UK went to war with Germany in 1914 because they were just "so concerned" about poor little Belgium. No, they went to war to stop Germany from becoming the dominant European power generally. Belgium was just a casus belli.

It's the same now as it ever was. The United States has global interests and they will be upheld, although sometimes a humanitarian mask is necessary (ala Libya 2011).

When someone says your ideas are stupid, it's not a winning idea to come back and say "hey, my ideas led to World War 1!"
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Franzl
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« Reply #155 on: February 22, 2014, 04:27:32 AM »

You misunderstand me. I'm not commenting on what may or may not influence American foreign policy. Rather, I'm personally identifying you as an HP, the reasons for which you've demonstrated quite well in this thread. I imagine you won't have the slightest idea why, but that's ok.

I'm sorry if the type of cynicism that's required to make foreign policy for a major power is too much for you to understand. This isn't exactly anything new.

And of course you haven't demonstrated actual factual reasons to disagree with my assertion so whatever.

As I expected.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #156 on: February 22, 2014, 04:38:04 AM »

The speaker of the parliament has resigned and the opposition have occupied the presidential offices; President reportedly in Kharkiv.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #157 on: February 22, 2014, 06:05:24 AM »

The Ministry of Interior and the Ukrainian Police have supposedly switched sides and pledged their support to the protestors now.

It seems that Yanukovych signing the compromise with the opposition was widely intepreted as a de facto surrender of the president. The precise content of the agreement has become more or less irrelevant now, but it certainly helped setting things in motion...
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #158 on: February 22, 2014, 06:13:24 AM »

So we should just embrace geopolitical sociopathy instead of backing away from it?

If only life were that simple. "Geo-political sociopathy" is geo-politics. Not to say there isn't room for humanitarianism (for example I think we should've intervened in Rwanda) but at the end of the day we have to do what is necessary lest our enemies gain the upper hand.

Spoken like a true HP. Congratulations.

Sorry real life is to "mean" for your tastes.

I mind you being an HP. I mind that your conception of reality is very unrealistic.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #159 on: February 22, 2014, 06:35:43 AM »

Ukrainian Parliament has just elected Arsen Avakov as the new Minister of Interior.

Avakov is a member of Yulia Tymoshenko's Batkivshchyna party.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #160 on: February 22, 2014, 07:44:59 AM »

Tymoshenko apparently has been released from prison.
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Beezer
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« Reply #161 on: February 22, 2014, 08:57:20 AM »

Yanukovich says on live tv that he is not resigning.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #162 on: February 22, 2014, 09:03:54 AM »

Yanukovych is not resigning, and says current parliament is illegal. Hmm, maybe an arrest warrant executed by the military should be forthcoming.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #163 on: February 22, 2014, 09:10:24 AM »

Says east is "stable" unlike west.
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Beezer
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« Reply #164 on: February 22, 2014, 09:15:11 AM »

Pics from Yanukovich's residence:







Private zoo:







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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #165 on: February 22, 2014, 09:31:30 AM »

21st century Marcos, and his family has plenty of loot too. Man's clearly insane.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #166 on: February 22, 2014, 09:34:09 AM »

21st century Marcos, and his family has plenty of loot too. Man's clearly insane.

Nah, he's just your very typical oligarch.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #167 on: February 22, 2014, 09:36:27 AM »

I meant what he's doing now is insane, not the loot.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #168 on: February 22, 2014, 09:38:13 AM »

I meant what he's doing now is insane, not the loot.

I don't know. He might very well be looking for a way out ot the country, which would be all but insane.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #169 on: February 22, 2014, 09:42:18 AM »

He could've taken a plane to Moscow. Didn't.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #170 on: February 22, 2014, 09:49:23 AM »

Kharkiv MPs are calling for militias to be formed, apparently. (Paging the Army?) But police in one of the biggest eastern cities have joined the protestors.
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RodPresident
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« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2014, 09:55:43 AM »

Things are going to become Civil War. Party of Regions Rada members are going to resign not only on fear, but because amnesty promises and that EU people need them to get majority. Yanukovich went to his power base (east) than get massacrated in Kiev. Power balance is in Armed Forces and Putin hands. If Putin promises support and Army loyal forces keep around, Yanukovich can build a government in Kharkiv or Donetsk to wage a war against East Ukraine.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #172 on: February 22, 2014, 09:58:38 AM »

Army has promised neutrality. Lavrov is denouncing the opposition and demanding that the EU use their influence to implement the agreement.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #173 on: February 22, 2014, 10:00:02 AM »

Sikorski just Tweeted this.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #174 on: February 22, 2014, 10:13:31 AM »

The Rada has voted to remove Yanukovych. Now voting on a May 27 presidential election.
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