Ukraine Crisis

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia

How f**king brave of you considering you neither would have to fight nor you live in the region.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

We need to supply Ukraine with nukes or else Russia can just run roughtshot over them.

[CatoMinor]

We need to supply Ukraine with nukes or else Russia can just run roughtshot over them.

You are just trolling right?

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

We need to supply Ukraine with nukes or else Russia can just run roughtshot over them.

You are just trolling right?

You are correct: nuclear weapons are too dangerous. Chemical weapons would be better to give them.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

We need to supply Ukraine with nukes or else Russia can just run roughtshot over them.

You are just trolling right?

You are correct: nuclear weapons are too dangerous. Chemical weapons would be better to give them.

...your still trolling, right?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

According to Al Jazeera, the Russian line on the Strilkove incident is that they were trying to prevent a "terrorist attack" on a gas plant.  (The implication was also that the Russian troops are still there.)

A "pre-emptive strike" against "terrorism"? No wonder Bush liked what he saw in Putin's soil.

[MaxQue]

According to Al Jazeera, the Russian line on the Strilkove incident is that they were trying to prevent a "terrorist attack" on a gas plant.  (The implication was also that the Russian troops are still there.)

A "pre-emptive strike" against "terrorism"? No wonder Bush liked what he saw in Putin's soil.

I wonder when Russia will bomb the Kremlin. Plenty of terrorists there.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

According to Al Jazeera, the Russian line on the Strilkove incident is that they were trying to prevent a "terrorist attack" on a gas plant.  (The implication was also that the Russian troops are still there.)

A "pre-emptive strike" against "terrorism"? No wonder Bush liked what he saw in Putin's soil.

I wonder when Russia will bomb the Kremlin. Plenty of terrorists there.

Robert Gates was head of the CIA when it mined the Nicaraguan Harbor and the USA became the only country ever convicted of terrorism by the World Court, so naturally he was a key leader in the "War on Terrorism". It was crystal clear that "change" was just a slogan for Obama the moment he decided to retain Robert Gates.

[bullmoose88]

According to Al Jazeera, the Russian line on the Strilkove incident is that they were trying to prevent a "terrorist attack" on a gas plant.  (The implication was also that the Russian troops are still there.)

A "pre-emptive strike" against "terrorism"? No wonder Bush liked what he saw in Putin's soil.

I don't see what dirt, earthworms, and shrubs have to do with this.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

We need to supply Ukraine with nukes or else Russia can just run roughtshot over them.

You are just trolling right?

You are correct: nuclear weapons are too dangerous. Chemical weapons would be better to give them.

...your still trolling, right?

We have two choices if we don't want Putin to enslave Ukraine and eventually Eastern Europe: either we go in ourselves or Ukraine gets the arms it needs to scare off Russia. I don't want to start world war III, so I prefer the second route.

[Cory]

Some interesting details from Foundations of Geopolitics, the founding document of modern Eurasianism and a major influence on Russian foreign policy circles. Bolded key parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

Military operations play relatively little role. The textbook believes in a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries.[1] The book states that "the maximum task [of the future] is the 'Finlandization’ of all of Europe".[1]

In Europe:

    -Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term a "Moscow-Berlin axis".[1]
    -France should be encouraged to form a "Franco-German bloc" with Germany. Both countries have a "firm anti-Atlanticist tradition".[1]
    -United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[1]
    -Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".[1]
    -Estonia should be given to Germany's sphere of influence.[1]
    -Latvia and Lithuania should be given a "special status" in the Eurasian-Russian sphere.[1]
    -Poland should be granted a "special status" in the Eurasian sphere.[1]
    -Romania, Macedonia, "Serbian Bosnia" and Greece - "orthodox collectivist East" - will unite with the "Moscow the Third Rome" and reject the "rational-individualistic West".[1]
    -Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is sanitary cordon, which would be inadmissible.[1]

In the Middle East and Central Asia:

    -The book stresses the "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" which lies "at the foundation of anti-Atlanticist strategy". The alliance is based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization".
    -Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow-Tehran axis".[1]
    -Armenia has a special role and will serve as a "strategic base" and it is necessary to create "the [subsidiary] axis Moscow-Erevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an Aryan people ... [like] the Iranians and the Kurds".[1]
    -Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran.[1]
    -Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.[1]
    -Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[1]
    -The book regards the Caucasus as a Russian territory, including "the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian (the territories of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan)" and Central Asia (mentioning Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan and Tajikistan).[1]

In Asia:

    -China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled".[2] Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia".[1]
    -Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.[1]
    -Mongolia should be absorbed into Eurasia-Russia.[1]

The book emphasizes that Russia must spread Anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main ‘scapegoat’ will be precisely the U.S."

In the United States:

    -Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]

Obviously not all of it is being enacted (that we know of) but it's clear the general direction of Russian foreign policy is being heavily influenced by this philosophy.

[Cory]

Also, what does everyone think of the idea of American forces setting up a "tripwire" in the case of a larger Russian invasion of the Ukraine? The idea is we would insert a line (or "wire") of paratroopers along the Dnieper. The idea is that we will be allowing Russia to take the Eastern half of Ukraine but making it to where if Russia wants to go further they have to attack American soldiers, thus automatically triggering a war.

Don't get me wrong they could break through this "wire" easily but by doing so they would be declaring war on NATO. The idea is the Russians will accept the gift (Eastern Ukraine & Crimea) and know better then to escalate.

That and I think the Administration could bypass Congress with this kind of maneuver. If the Russians attack it will trigger the War Powers Act. I highly doubt that Congress has the audacity to play funding games to prevent this.

[bullmoose88]

I'm really interested to see what China does from here on out...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Also, what does everyone think of the idea of American forces setting up a "tripwire" in the case of a larger Russian invasion of the Ukraine? The idea is we would insert a line (or "wire") of paratroopers along the Dnieper. The idea is that we will be allowing Russia to take the Eastern half of Ukraine but making it to where if Russia wants to go further they have to attack American soldiers, thus automatically triggering a war.

Don't get me wrong they could break through this "wire" easily but by doing so they would be declaring war on NATO. The idea is the Russians will accept the gift (Eastern Ukraine & Crimea) and know better then to escalate.

That and I think the Administration could bypass Congress with this kind of maneuver. If the Russians attack it will trigger the War Powers Act. I highly doubt that Congress has the audacity to play funding games to prevent this.

That is a horrible idea that will blow up things to an unnecessary level. If Russia wants to play games with ethnic separatism, I saw we should hit back. I’m sure the people of Chechnya agree….(and yes, I know they are Islamists).

[Cory]

That is a horrible idea that will blow up things to an unnecessary level. If Russia wants to play games with ethnic separatism, I saw we should hit back. I’m sure the people of Chechnya agree….(and yes, I know they are Islamists).

No it isn't. Things like this are why the Russians don't take Western leadership seriously.

If the Russians outright invaded Ukraine proper and NATO literally did nothing (substantial) to stop them then it will be hard for anyone to take the West seriously form now on. It will be made clear that the West simply doesn't have the basic strength of character to face down a major power.

The Russians will not attack the tripwire. They will accept the gift.

[MaxQue]

The level of naivety of Westerners is sickening.

[bullmoose88]

The level of naivety of Westerners is sickening.

Do tell.

[MaxQue]

The level of naivety of Westerners is sickening.

Do tell.

Well, everyone here seems to assume than Putin is rational and mentally sane. I'm not sure at all of that.

[bullmoose88]

The level of naivety of Westerners is sickening.

Do tell.

Well, everyone here seems to assume than Putin is rational and mentally sane. I'm not sure at all of that.

I think he's correct in inferring that the West will not shed blood over Ukraine because it is not obliged to do so.  The sane/rational part will come into play if he decides to use the Putin doctrine to step into the territory of a nato member.

[Beet]

The level of naivety of Westerners is sickening.

Do tell.

Well, everyone here seems to assume than Putin is rational and mentally sane. I'm not sure at all of that.

Well everyone here seems to assume Kim Jong Un is rational and mentally sane.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I'd say Putin is mentally sane. Maybe narrow-minded depending on how you look at it.

As I indicated a couple of pages ago, as an ex-KGB colonel he places too much emphasis on raw political and military power while seemingly laughing about "soft power". Sure, he's gonna ensure that Crimea and the port of Sevastopol never fall into NATO hands, but at the same time he's about to wreck his country's economy (not to mention his country's image) in the process.

Yesterday's peace demonstrations in Moscow show that at least part of his own population (even though it may be only a vocal minority) begins to see him as a Russian version of Dubya.  Well, maybe Cheney rather than Dubya, since Putin is probably more intelligent as well as more cynical.

[Beezer]

95.5 percent for union with Russia. Most impressive.

[IceSpear]

95.5 percent for union with Russia. Most impressive.

Almost as impressive as Kim Jong Un's recent re-election.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The everyday life on Crimea...

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

95.5 percent for union with Russia. Most impressive.

Was there a boycott?