Ukraine Crisis
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 02:04:44 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Ukraine Crisis
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59 60 61 62 63 ... 72
Author Topic: Ukraine Crisis  (Read 233913 times)
RogueBeaver
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,058
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1425 on: July 13, 2014, 03:22:49 PM »

Interesting RFE interview with a former rebel.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1426 on: July 13, 2014, 06:43:42 PM »


Oh.
Logged
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,681
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1427 on: July 13, 2014, 07:05:18 PM »


Are these "Soviet Persons" more of that in the old school Communist scene or more of a Chinese sense where communism is just the origin of their culture and they are no longer communist?
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,804


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1428 on: July 14, 2014, 12:00:49 AM »

Looks like Russian invasion may be imminent- a stray shell has landed on the wrong side of the border.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/13/ukraine-crisis-consequences-idUSL5N0OX2E120140713

Ukraine must cool down now. They cannot give Putin a pretext for invasion.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,804


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1429 on: July 17, 2014, 10:33:05 AM »

Russia has shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet flying in Ukrainian airspace.

This is after shooting down a high altitude Ukrainian military transport plane last week.

They are openly engaging in acts of war now.
Logged
GMantis
Dessie Potter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,947
Bulgaria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1430 on: July 17, 2014, 03:39:04 PM »

Russia has shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet flying in Ukrainian airspace.

This is after shooting down a high altitude Ukrainian military transport plane last week.

They are openly engaging in acts of war now.
Before believing the Ukrainian government too much, it should be noted that they haven't proven very trustworthy in the past, for example going as far as claiming that the insurgents in Slavyansk shelled the town themselves to make the Ukrainian army look bad.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,804


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1431 on: July 17, 2014, 03:45:04 PM »

Russia has shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet flying in Ukrainian airspace.

This is after shooting down a high altitude Ukrainian military transport plane last week.

They are openly engaging in acts of war now.
Before believing the Ukrainian government too much, it should be noted that they haven't proven very trustworthy in the past, for example going as far as claiming that the insurgents in Slavyansk shelled the town themselves to make the Ukrainian army look bad.

Why are you such a Russian hack? Do you work for Pravda or something?
Logged
GMantis
Dessie Potter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,947
Bulgaria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1432 on: July 17, 2014, 04:26:02 PM »

Russia has shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet flying in Ukrainian airspace.

This is after shooting down a high altitude Ukrainian military transport plane last week.

They are openly engaging in acts of war now.
Before believing the Ukrainian government too much, it should be noted that they haven't proven very trustworthy in the past, for example going as far as claiming that the insurgents in Slavyansk shelled the town themselves to make the Ukrainian army look bad.

Why are you such a Russian hack? Do you work for Pravda or something?
Does a Russian hack means someone who doesn't swallow every preposterous lie the Ukraine media government supplies to Western media? If so, I am. If we use a common sense definition of the term, certainly not. If you had bothered to check my other posts you would have seen for example that I believed that the pro-Russian rebels shot down the Malaysian plane today. But of course that would require effort which someone who prefers to have a simple-minded black and white world-view would be unlike to make. And of course you could read my other posts on this very page, and I'm ready to defend everything that I've written there - if you were able to use actual arguments, instead of reflexive name calling.
Logged
swl
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 581
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1433 on: July 17, 2014, 04:39:53 PM »
« Edited: July 17, 2014, 04:43:53 PM by swl »

If the rebels shot down the plane, the 'best' case now would be for Russia to realize that they've been providing weapons to a bunch of drunkards and to step back from the conflict (probably unofficially, since they deny being involved), forcing the rebels to negotiate. Of course that seems optimistic.

If the Ukrainian loyalists or the Russian army are responsible, it's going to be bad...
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1434 on: July 17, 2014, 05:00:34 PM »

Azov Battalion enlisting foreign neo-Nazis.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1435 on: July 19, 2014, 01:41:33 AM »

I'm going to leave this here
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1436 on: July 19, 2014, 01:49:52 AM »


The President is right, because there is no ideological struggle between NATO and Putin's Russia, both of which are firmly in the hands of opposed sets of private oligarchs (though arguably Russia's domestic policy is embracing traditional conservatism in order to court the favor of the Orthodox Church). This is entirely two opposing imperialist sides jockeying for influence in a strategically important and quite populous European state.
Logged
Middle-aged Europe
Old Europe
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,178
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1437 on: July 19, 2014, 04:26:51 AM »


Without hindsight, Obama was certainly right at the time and I'm still wondering how Romney arrived at the conclusion that Russia is America's "geopolitical foe no. 1". If anything, you had to name China from a 2012 perspective.
Logged
Cory
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1438 on: July 19, 2014, 08:55:04 PM »

Without hindsight, Obama was certainly right at the time and I'm still wondering how Romney arrived at the conclusion that Russia is America's "geopolitical foe no. 1". If anything, you had to name China from a 2012 perspective.

Because their alliance with Iran and Loyalist Syria? The invasion of Georgia to teach the West a lesson about who's sphere of influence is who's?
Logged
Beezer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,902


Political Matrix
E: 1.61, S: -2.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1439 on: July 20, 2014, 05:57:41 AM »


Without hindsight, Obama was certainly right at the time and I'm still wondering how Romney arrived at the conclusion that Russia is America's "geopolitical foe no. 1". If anything, you had to name China from a 2012 perspective.

Or maybe Romney just had a modicum of foresight.
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1440 on: July 20, 2014, 11:29:15 AM »


Without hindsight, Obama was certainly right at the time and I'm still wondering how Romney arrived at the conclusion that Russia is America's "geopolitical foe no. 1". If anything, you had to name China from a 2012 perspective.

Or maybe Romney just had a modicum of foresight.

Romney's campaign was the opposite of being led by someone with foresight.
Logged
Cory
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1441 on: July 20, 2014, 08:23:50 PM »

I agreed with Romney at the time and didn't get why do many people didn't. Don't get me wrong Islamic Extremism was the most direct and actively lethal threat but in the grand scheme of things Russia was clearly the main "enemy". Our foreign policy interests directly conflict in a number of areas. Russia wants to be a major superpower again and doing so involves redrawing the world order and with America being the status quo power this fundamentally will bring us into conflict and tension.
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1442 on: July 21, 2014, 10:21:20 AM »

Russia is really, really weak. What's happening now is a meager attempt to try and restore national pride. They aren't anywhere close to being a major threat to US interests.

The worst thing we can do is treat them as somebody important when they're not.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1443 on: July 21, 2014, 06:25:12 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2014, 06:28:16 PM by Simfan34 »

I'm not.sure how weak they are with nuclear weapons, thousands of Tanks, hundreds of billionaires with expropriable assets, public opinion by all measures supporting the regime... sure, they might have poor foreign relations but both their capability to do harm is quite high and our capability (or willingness) to retaliate still seems to be limited. The USSR was a far poorer and smaller economy than the US. That did not mean they were able to pose a major threat.

The fact that only ~52% of the member states of the UN voted yes to condemn a blatantly fraudulent, deceptive, forceful, and illegal annexation of another country, which pretty much threatens every country that prefers not to be invaded by a neighbour, is proof of how much clout Russia can wield.
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1444 on: July 21, 2014, 06:36:47 PM »

The fact that only ~52% of the member states of the UN voted yes to condemn a blatantly fraudulent, deceptive, forceful, and illegal annexation of another country

I'm fairly certain Ukraine still exists.
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1445 on: July 21, 2014, 06:48:59 PM »

I'm not.sure how weak they are with nuclear weapons, thousands of Tanks, hundreds of billionaires with expropriable assets, public opinion by all measures supporting the regime... sure, they might have poor foreign relations but both their capability to do harm is quite high and our capability (or willingness) to retaliate still seems to be limited. The USSR was a far poorer and smaller economy than the US. That did not mean they were able to pose a major threat.

The fact that only ~52% of the member states of the UN voted yes to condemn a blatantly fraudulent, deceptive, forceful, and illegal annexation of another country, which pretty much threatens every country that prefers not to be invaded by a neighbour, is proof of how much clout Russia can wield.

It also shows what a pointless joke the UN has become.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1446 on: July 22, 2014, 12:06:51 AM »

I'm sure they could take over the whole tthing and nothing would change.
Logged
Knives
solopop
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,460
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1447 on: July 22, 2014, 05:04:40 AM »

I'm not.sure how weak they are with nuclear weapons, thousands of Tanks, hundreds of billionaires with expropriable assets, public opinion by all measures supporting the regime... sure, they might have poor foreign relations but both their capability to do harm is quite high and our capability (or willingness) to retaliate still seems to be limited. The USSR was a far poorer and smaller economy than the US. That did not mean they were able to pose a major threat.

The fact that only ~52% of the member states of the UN voted yes to condemn a blatantly fraudulent, deceptive, forceful, and illegal annexation of another country, which pretty much threatens every country that prefers not to be invaded by a neighbour, is proof of how much clout Russia can wield.

It also shows what a pointless joke the UN has become.

The UN works well, it's just the Security Council is a mess.
Logged
Хahar 🤔
Xahar
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,731
Bangladesh


Political Matrix
E: -6.77, S: 0.61

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1448 on: July 22, 2014, 06:41:43 AM »

It also shows what a pointless joke the UN has become.

Please stop talking and come back when you figure out what the United Nations actually does.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,096
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1449 on: July 22, 2014, 03:18:35 PM »

It also shows what a pointless joke the UN has become.

Please stop talking and come back when you figure out what the United Nations actually does.
In my lifetime, the only thing I have seen the UN "do" is make itself a forum for third world crackpots and tyrants to blame the west for their problems.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 53 54 55 56 57 [58] 59 60 61 62 63 ... 72  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 12 queries.