The Sage Garden

[Paul Kemp]

It's a bit more complicated than that.  The real war is between the owning class and the working class.  The owning class does what it can to incite the working class into racial conflict as a distraction from the true conflict. 

[Paul Kemp]

Anyone who wastes their time watching TV shows is an intellectual lightweight. Read a f**king book!

[Paul Kemp]

Anyone who wastes their time watching TV shows is an intellectual lightweight. Read a f**king book!

Gentlemen, I have been outsaged.

Never.

[Paul Kemp]

Countries aren't the biggest threats to world peace, the international ruling class is.

Never forget.

[Paul Kemp]

While that previous post is most sage, I raise you this:

Countries aren't the biggest threats to world peace, the international ruling class is.

Precisely.

The worst warmongers often speak on behalf of the "peace-loving people" that they allegedly represent.

War is profitable for elites -- unless the political order that serves them is overthrown and those elites are dispossessed.  War is good for corporate profits from steel-making to provisioning, let alone weapons manufacture. It's even good for bankers who get high-yield bonds of little likelihood of default so long as victory ensues. War is a marvelous excuse for throttling the interests of laborers on farms or in factories.

If war goes well, the cartels and trusts get new, captive markets in defeated countries -- and with direct colonization or the establishment of a puppet state, resources to loot for minimal cost and cheap labor to exploit to the fullest. Upon victory the agrarian interests of the victor might impose ruinous taxes upon freehold farmers who have no alternative but to submit to hereditary peonage.

War is a scam. Maybe the best way to stop war is to break the power of the traditional ruling elites -- break the trusts and cartels, open the market to international competition, do land reform that turns landless peasants into freehold farmers, and permit strong unions to form. Oh yes -- impose gender equity.     

[Paul Kemp]

Don't forget this one. It's as sage as the post you quoted:

It's pretty true. Those hippies wanna take us back to the stone age.

Not really. "Sage" is defined in my book as a failed attempt at displaying some kind of profound intellect  with a sense of elitism. I don't think Cathcon's statement meets the criteria.

[Paul Kemp]

I don't think anyone is saying that someone is immune from criticism (if you consider being placed in The Garden criticism, that is) but that it simply doesn't meet the expected criteria. If anything a post like that would be better suited for The Deluge, as one could take it to display ignorance.

Obvious the expression "sage" here is used sarcastically or ironically but the very definition (I hate doing this) is: "having, showing, or indicating profound wisdom". I'm not sure Cathcon's statement applies, sarcastically or literally.

That being said, this shows why these threads are kinda dumb.

[Paul Kemp]

"Green nutery is a cancer" and "environmentalists are hippies" are not failed attempts of profundity; they are just commonplaces.

Right so they probably don't belong. I wouldn't have necessarily put that Snowstalker quote here either.

My post that you quote was in response to this:

Cathcon can be an arrogant prick sometimes. Sure, he's no Snowstalker, but that's not a reason to make him immune of any criticism.

[Paul Kemp]

The sage has gone sour.

[Paul Kemp]

"Hegemony" is most certainly a red flag for sage.

[Paul Kemp]

Emphasis on sage my own:

Yes because of the rise of neoliberalism, the power of the corporatist oligarchy, the dismantling of the New Deal-Great Society consensus etc. etc.

[Paul Kemp]

Nah, this one isn't sage. These terms actually make perfect sense in context.

Those terms are sage red-flags and have been since the infancy of adopting the word. It makes no difference whether it makes sense or not...

[Paul Kemp]

Nah, this one isn't sage. These terms actually make perfect sense in context.

Those terms are sage red-flags and have been since the infancy of adopting the word. It makes no difference whether it makes sense or not...

I don't think any term is inherently sage, unless it's really some pompous and obscure word nobody actually ever uses. The general phrasing and the issue addressed should be taken into account.

Actual humans don't sincerely use the terms "neoliberalism" and "corporatist oligarchy" unless trying to appear wise or philosophical therefore sage by definition. Agreeing with it doesn't make it any less so. Hell, I somewhat agree with the post itself.

[Paul Kemp]

If using the word "neoliberalism" is sage, then it's the word sage that is completely meaningless.

Well yes but only because some here have some bastardized idea of what the silly term is. There's a reason why "neoliberalism" was on the banned words list on IRC (which obviously existed for purely humorous reasons). It actually was one of the first terms to be dubbed "sage" back when the whole "Snowstalker being sage" thing started.

I'm not sure why you're being so sensitive about this. It's not some damning indictment. It's just a bit of fun, which is what using the term "sage" really is.

[Paul Kemp]

I just think there's little point in using a word if it encompasses Snowstalker's worst rants alongside with posts that are relevant, factually correct and not pompous. This focus on a word as being "sage" is pretty misleading IMO. If I get it right, the word neoliberalism was banned from IRC because of Snowstalker's abuse of it, not because it was a word that should never be used - indeed, the words "socialism" and "fascism" were banned too, does that mean anyone who every uses them is being sage?

I think the issue here is you're trying to put some serious substance to a term that was pretty much coined as something that's just "taking a piss" as some of our friends would say. You're putting too much thought into it.

By the way in which we (maybe not you) use the term, stating that America is in decline because of "neoliberalism" and a "corporatist oligarchy" IS "sage", even if you agree with it and find it valid (which, as I've already stated, I mostly do). There's a definite element of attempting to convey a sort of profundity and wisdom when it could've come been put into terms that were more common-sense and doesn't come off so much as a "look how many important articles I read" statement. You're more than welcome to disagree with it but it's pretty much the definition as far as I'm concerned.

Don't be upset; we've all been offenders of a little sage abuse every now and then.

[Paul Kemp]

I just think there's little point in using a word if it encompasses Snowstalker's worst rants alongside with posts that are relevant, factually correct and not pompous. This focus on a word as being "sage" is pretty misleading IMO. If I get it right, the word neoliberalism was banned from IRC because of Snowstalker's abuse of it, not because it was a word that should never be used - indeed, the words "socialism" and "fascism" were banned too, does that mean anyone who every uses them is being sage?

Lol wow, they ban words now?

No words are banned. Some were at one point for a gag.

[Paul Kemp]

Is right-wing sagery possible?

Today, our socio-economic problems are created by incompetent progressive regulators.

Absolutely!

[Paul Kemp]

Boy, this Meursault character really is The Worst.