Nelson Mandela has died
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  Nelson Mandela has died
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Author Topic: Nelson Mandela has died  (Read 9631 times)
H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2013, 08:03:36 PM »

RIP. One of the genuinely great men of our times.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2013, 08:34:35 PM »
« Edited: December 07, 2013, 01:57:14 PM by afleitch »

The world's most beloved man who turned his back on terrorism.
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freefair
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« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2013, 08:53:51 PM »
« Edited: December 05, 2013, 09:51:16 PM by freefair »

Dunno about Reagan but Thatcher strongly disliked Apartheid and focused her efforts on constructive engagement (the carrot approach) with the NP government in order to bring about the peaceful end of apartheid without letting Soviet Communist influence permeate and extend itself or violent terrorism succeed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9997714/Margaret-Thatchers-vital-role-in-ending-apartheid.html
http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/secret-1985-letter-from-thatcher-pw-botha-urges-release-of-mandela.htm#.UqEDEJRlVsY.twitter
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=368488&sn=Detail
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22069896
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2013, 09:23:08 PM »


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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2013, 09:40:03 PM »


Mandela did engage in armed struggle, cofounding Umkhonto we Sizwe which was at one time labelled a terrorist organization by the US government.  One side's freedom fighter is often the other side's terrorist.  He wasn't the most violent of terrorists, but I have to wonder what he might have become had he not been caught and left to rot in jail. It's fairly easy to choose the course of peace when no other options are allowed you. It would be disingenuous not to acknowledge all this, tho it could have been done in a less trollish manner.
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freefair
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« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2013, 09:45:18 PM »


In fairness it was probably Justified Terrorism.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2013, 09:47:51 PM »
« Edited: December 05, 2013, 09:50:14 PM by Assemblyman DC »


Mandela did engage in armed struggle, cofounding Umkhonto we Sizwe which was at one time labelled a terrorist organization by the US government.  One side's freedom fighter is often the other side's terrorist.  He wasn't the most violent of terrorists, but I have to wonder what he might have become had he not been caught and left to rot in jail. It's fairly easy to choose the course of peace when no other options are allowed you. It would be disingenuous not to acknowledge all this, tho it could have been done in a less trollish manner.

I think you can excuse an old man for the violence committed in his youth during a revolution. Mandela had every opportunity to turn into Mugabe. He did not, and in my opinion, he fully lived up to the ideals he expressed upon his release from prison.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2013, 09:54:40 PM »


Mandela did engage in armed struggle, cofounding Umkhonto we Sizwe which was at one time labelled a terrorist organization by the US government.  One side's freedom fighter is often the other side's terrorist.  He wasn't the most violent of terrorists, but I have to wonder what he might have become had he not been caught and left to rot in jail. It's fairly easy to choose the course of peace when no other options are allowed you. It would be disingenuous not to acknowledge all this, tho it could have been done in a less trollish manner.

I think you can excuse an old man for the violence committed in his youth during a revolution. Mandela had every opportunity to turn into Mugabe. He did not, and in my opinion, he fully lived up to the ideals he expressed upon his release from prison.

I agree with all that.  He was definitely a freedom fighter and there is nothing to indicate he ever considered armed struggle to be the first choice of how to respond to the evils of apartheid. While a bit of hagiography is to be expected at a time like this and even encouraged, he certainly wasn't perfect, so I don't think we should mind the warts on the frog prince being pointed out, so long as it is done in a reasonable manner.
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Vosem
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« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2013, 10:17:32 PM »

May he RIP; whatever he may have done in his youth, ultimately his contributions to South Africa, and to the world as a whole, in the 1990s-2000s far more than redeem anything prior to that.
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JerryArkansas
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« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2013, 11:16:32 PM »

God rest his soul.  We today lost one of the greatest men to ever walk this earth.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
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« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2013, 11:26:30 PM »

May he rest in peace. What he was able to do for South Africa was a long time coming, and it will be a long time before we see his like again.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2013, 11:52:53 PM »


Wat.


But seriously, I have a recommendation to y'all: stay away from any the FB statuses of any US politician who dares to honor Mandela; the comments are ridiculously terrible. Especially on Ted Cruz's status.
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Sbane
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« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2013, 11:53:25 PM »


Mandela did engage in armed struggle, cofounding Umkhonto we Sizwe which was at one time labelled a terrorist organization by the US government.  One side's freedom fighter is often the other side's terrorist.  He wasn't the most violent of terrorists, but I have to wonder what he might have become had he not been caught and left to rot in jail. It's fairly easy to choose the course of peace when no other options are allowed you. It would be disingenuous not to acknowledge all this, tho it could have been done in a less trollish manner.

Hmm, what time was that organization considered a terrorist organization by the US government?
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2013, 12:51:45 AM »


In fairness it was probably Justified Terrorism.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2013, 12:54:08 AM »

When your oppressors are terrorized, you're doing something right.
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Hifly
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« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2013, 01:35:38 AM »

Jacob Zuma's speech was very moving. Frankly, I was afraid it would have been another Nicholas Maduro speech that was overdramatic and self serving. Fortunately, Zuma kept it solemn and serious.

If you had seem the very beginning as he came on stage you would not say that. Totally unprofessional and distracting.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2013, 02:43:41 AM »

He was a pretty terrible president but a heroic freedom fighter in the literal sense.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2013, 03:45:26 AM »

I think its interesting to reflect that when Nelson Mandela was born, Woodrow Wilson was President of the United States, and that World War I was still raging on in the fields of France.
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opebo
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« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2013, 04:06:36 AM »

Delayed the catharsis where they kill or drive out the exploiter colonialists by at least a generation.
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Beezer
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« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2013, 07:22:55 AM »


Wat.


But seriously, I have a recommendation to y'all: stay away from any the FB statuses of any US politician who dares to honor Mandela; the comments are ridiculously terrible. Especially on Ted Cruz's status.

Damn...

Sen Cruz, you need to study your history. He was a glorified terrorist!

Nelson Mandela was a socialist terrorizer of white Africans, hated Capitalism and didn't think commoners had a right to private property, and thought government should control and distribute wealth...

He was a convicted terrorist and a leader in the Communist Party. . .good grief Ted!!!!!

He was a mass murdering communist. How is that a "defender of liberty"?

Nelson Mandela was a communist who murdered many people. He caused that capital of South Africa become a place where rate of rape was in first ten at whole world. I won't cry, because in history were many people who were real advocates of freedom.

You just lost my vote Ted. He was a communist.
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tik 🪀✨
ComradeCarter
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« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2013, 07:45:14 AM »


Wat.


But seriously, I have a recommendation to y'all: stay away from any the FB statuses of any US politician who dares to honor Mandela; the comments are ridiculously terrible. Especially on Ted Cruz's status.

Damn...

Sen Cruz, you need to study your history. He was a glorified terrorist!

Nelson Mandela was a socialist terrorizer of white Africans, hated Capitalism and didn't think commoners had a right to private property, and thought government should control and distribute wealth...

He was a convicted terrorist and a leader in the Communist Party. . .good grief Ted!!!!!

He was a mass murdering communist. How is that a "defender of liberty"?

Nelson Mandela was a communist who murdered many people. He caused that capital of South Africa become a place where rate of rape was in first ten at whole world. I won't cry, because in history were many people who were real advocates of freedom.

You just lost my vote Ted. He was a communist.


Some quotes don't deserve italics.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2013, 07:56:23 AM »


Well, as far as the terrorist business is concerned, he was probably preferable to Eamon de Valera and Menachem Begin.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2013, 09:24:20 AM »

May he rest in peace. What he was able to do for South Africa was a long time coming, and it will be a long time before we see his like again.

This, and one of the greatest.
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GMantis
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« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2013, 11:48:39 AM »

RIP For all his faults, he succeeded in carrying out a peaceful transition to black rule without using the opportunity to take revenge upon the whites (especially considering his long stay in prison)
.
Also nice to see that the rumors of anti-white pogroms in the case of Mandela's death were just that.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2013, 12:26:02 PM »

It's sad when someone dies and when it's someone of his achievements it's even harder. But he was a 95 year old man, who'd been sick for a LONG time. I thank him for what he did and think his reward is now his eternal rest.
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