NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 (failed)

[Talleyrand]

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Sponsor: Representative Earthling

Representative, you have 24 hours to begin advocating for this.

Debate shall last 72 hours in total.

[Earthling]

Having searched on the wiki I did not find legislation that tells us that minors need to stay in school until they reach the age of 18. I want to fix that because I believe we should encourage minors to stay in school and graduate. Minors should not leave school without a diploma and start working in low-paying jobs. With a diploma they maybe can go to college and make something out of their lives.

[sentinel]

Woah..

This bill goes too far. If a parent wants to withdraw their student from school they should be able to do so within reason. Homeschooling, even though uncommon, has produced many productive members of the Northeast. Even though the public education system should try to accommodate all students, sometimes parents feel that it cannot. When that happens, parents should have the option to withdraw their child from school.

Requiring schooling, whether in a public/private institution or at home for a certain number of years is a different issue. I support requiring children to go through a certain amount of schooling, and I feel that the current state and local standards are sufficient. If we were to provide a regional standard, I would advise that we set it at 16 years old.

In addition, textbooks are already free in public school, and requiring schools to provide education is redundant.

EDIT: I'd like to remind the Assembly of the great work it has already done on education. Scott's education law and the Northeastern Higher Education Act were vital improvements to our education system.

[Goldwater]

I can not think of anything that would make me support this bill or anything similar to it.

[Cincinnatus]

I don't like this practice of compounding education bills.  Of course, there is no blame, but I think we should consider a comprehensive education bill for the region.  I'd be willing to spearhead a thread dedicated to this effort, if anyone is interested...

[sentinel]

I don't like this practice of compounding education bills.  Of course, there is no blame, but I think we should consider a comprehensive education bill for the region.  I'd be willing to spearhead a thread dedicated to this effort, if anyone is interested...

We've already had two comprehensive bills pass recently. Scott's bill, from what I recall, dealt mostly with K-12 --that passed in June. My & Dr. Cynic's bill dealt with secondary education (undergraduate, graduate, post graduate).

[Cincinnatus]

I don't like this practice of compounding education bills.  Of course, there is no blame, but I think we should consider a comprehensive education bill for the region.  I'd be willing to spearhead a thread dedicated to this effort, if anyone is interested...

We've already had two comprehensive bills pass recently. Scott's bill, from what I recall, dealt mostly with K-12 --that passed in June. My & Dr. Cynic's bill dealt with secondary education (undergraduate, graduate, post graduate).

So we combine the bills, discuss further implementations, ect, ect.  Introducing a plethora of education bills now, and moving forward, isn't exactly the best plan.  If we want to be the best region, we need to cohesively formulate bills.  Creating a thread, and focus group allows for longer term collaboration, and insight. 

Of course, if this is unappealing, I'm more than happy to work with any member of the Assembly on any education, or non-related bills, privately. 

[sentinel]

I don't like this practice of compounding education bills.  Of course, there is no blame, but I think we should consider a comprehensive education bill for the region.  I'd be willing to spearhead a thread dedicated to this effort, if anyone is interested...

We've already had two comprehensive bills pass recently. Scott's bill, from what I recall, dealt mostly with K-12 --that passed in June. My & Dr. Cynic's bill dealt with secondary education (undergraduate, graduate, post graduate).

So we combine the bills, discuss further implementations, ect, ect.  Introducing a plethora of education bills now, and moving forward, isn't exactly the best plan.  If we want to be the best region, we need to cohesively formulate bills.  Creating a thread, and focus group allows for longer term collaboration, and insight. 

Of course, if this is unappealing, I'm more than happy to work with any member of the Assembly on any education, or non-related bills, privately. 

This would be fine, I think we'd need to get a GM report on the state of education in the NE and the effect (long term and short) of the two bills that recently passed.

[Earthling]

I can support a comprehensive education bill.

But when it comes to pupils staying in school until 18, it is very important to me. Students should graduate. Making it in the world without a high-school diploma is tough. It also keeps young people of the job market, which might help older people.
Home schooling is bad in my opinion. Children should be in school, away from their parents and get a good education. Interaction with other children at school is important when growing up.

[sentinel]

Have you ever met someone who was home schooled? I have at least two friends who were and thet both turned out fine. Sure, they're Republicans but otherwise...

Anyway, Earthling you're not providing any evidence against homeschoolong except for you not liking it.

[Earthling]

Is the curriculum of home schooling good enough? Why are parents keeping their kids home? Is home schooling in a way nothing more than a madrasa?

I am fearful of home schooling because of the reasons behind it.

[sentinel]

Is the curriculum of home schooling good enough? Why are parents keeping their kids home? Is home schooling in a way nothing more than a madrasa?

I am fearful of home schooling because of the reasons behind it.

A madrasa is an educational institution whether secular or religious...

[Earthling]

I know what a madrasa is.
But if parents are teaching their children extremist religious views and other extremist stuff, than what is the difference? When in school, they at least get to hear other opinions.

[sentinel]

I know what a madrasa is.
But if parents are teaching their children extremist religious views and other extremist stuff, than what is the difference? When in school, they at least get to hear other opinions.

Aight, I'm done. This train is off the rails. I will veto any attempt to prohibit homeschooling.

[Earthling]

Home schooling will not be prohibited. Look at the bill, people should apply to the local education department to get permission.

[sentinel]

Home schooling will not be prohibited. Look at the bill, people should apply to the local education department to get permission.

Then why the tyraid against home schooling? I think you should have to notify the education department that your child is being home schooled and that we should to some [low] level, hold those parents accountable to ensure that they're at least receiving some education --but they should not have to ask for permission to home school their child.

[Earthling]

Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.

But the law still gives parents the option to do so. And it should be more regulated to makes sure that children are taught the things they need to know, not some crazy stuff their parents believe in.

[sentinel]

Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.

But the law still gives parents the option to do so. And it should be more regulated to makes sure that children are taught the things they need to know, not some crazy stuff their parents believe in.

Who are we to tell parents what they can and can't teach their children? If parents don't like public schools they should be able to withdraw their child and either homeschool them or send their child to private school --without getting the consent of the government. Notification is one thing, consent is another.

Plus, people are entitled to believe what they can't to believe. People's views of extremist is extremely variable. For instance, you apparently think madrassa's are categorically extremist --and thats complete bull.

Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.

We should compel parents to send their kids to public schools by supporting and fostering excellent public schools!

[Earthling]

Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.

But the law still gives parents the option to do so. And it should be more regulated to makes sure that children are taught the things they need to know, not some crazy stuff their parents believe in.

Who are we to tell parents what they can and can't teach their children? If parents don't like public schools they should be able to withdraw their child and either homeschool them or send their child to private school --without getting the consent of the government. Notification is one thing, consent is another.

Plus, people are entitled to believe what they can't to believe. People's views of extremist is extremely variable. For instance, you apparently think madrassa's are categorically extremist --and thats complete bull.

To start with your final words: I do believe schools that are only based on religious grounds and teach on religious grounds should be considered as extremist. The world is more than the Bible, Quran or books like that.

And what kids are taught at home is not our business, in it self. After all, normally a child goes to school and hears other things, other opinions. It makes the mind of child more broad and more open to different opinions and different people. But with home schooling, this is not the case. That makes it more problematic in my opinion.

Everyone has the right to believe what he or she wants, but teaching your children only your believes is wrong. It enslaves the children to your way of thinking. It can close the mind of children.

And of course you can send your child to private school. As long as the private school has a normal curriculum. Created and judged by the government.

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We should compel parents to send their kids to public schools but supporting and fostering excellent public schools!
[/quote]

I completely agree with that.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Calm your sh**t, guys, Conductor Alfred's gonna un- this train up!

I'm not a fan of homeschooling myself, but hey, it's your kids. Do what you want as long as it's not teaching them the earth is 6000 years old or whatever - parents should be allowed to have flexibility in the curricula and fashion in which they teach their children as long as it meets regional/federal education standards.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Calm your sh**t, guys, Conductor Alfred's gonna un- this train up!

I'm not a fan of homeschooling myself, but hey, it's your kids. Do what you want as long as it's not teaching them the earth is 6000 years old or whatever - parents should be allowed to have flexibility in the curricula and fashion in which they teach their children as long as it meets regional/federal education standards.

Home schooling can and should be headed up through a liaison with the local school district who can help coordinate curriculum and also put parents in touch with other home schooled children to promote extracurricular activities.

As far as I know, school districts do offer this... but so many choose home schooling for religious reasons so they don't take advantage of it.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I thought I'd take the liberty of dropping into my former region and asking the Representatives here to vote down this proposal.  While I too am skeptical of homeschooling in principle and favor implementing tight standards, I fear the restrictions imposed by this law leave very little flexibility to the parents of the region.  If parents want to raise and teach their children in a religious environment, I don't see the problem with it, and that is a liberty protected by our constitution.  I don't think there's necessarily a conflict between teaching religious values and sticking to a proper science curriculum, though.

Also, keep in mind that comprehensive education reform was passed about a year ago.  The education sector has already been nationalized.

[Talleyrand]

With 72 hours having elapsed in debate time, this bill is now up for a final vote. Voting will last 48 hours or until all sitting Representatives have voted. Please vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.

[Earthling]

I know the bill will fail to get through, but I am voting:


Aye

[Goldwater]

NAY