opinion of the infraction points system

[WalterMitty]

horrible.

[minionofmidas]

I'd give it 7 out of 10 possible infraction points for concern trolling, excessive hyperbole and inducing posters to use profanity.

[WalterMitty]

I'd give it 7 out of 10 possible infraction points for concern trolling, excessive hyperbole and inducing posters to use profanity.

i got 1 infraction point for asking if christine o'donnell was hot.

i dont know which mod did that, but hopefully they arent a mod any longer.  this has been a while ago.

[Lief 🗽]

a total and complete failure that has negatively impacted the quality of the forum

[Torie]

Dave set up the system, and of course it is imperfect. The idea I suppose was that it was intended to try to minimize subjectivity. Obviously it does not eliminate it, and within a certain range, different Mods do different things, and have different things they focus on.

Rather than curse the darkness however, I would be interested in having illuminated what creative minds think might be a better system. Yes, I know, some just think nobody should be disciplined for anything, and just everything should go around here. Since Dave is not going to let that happen, are there any other ideas?

Granted this is basically a masturbatory exercise, since the odds of anything changing are close to absolute zero. Such is life.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I think Joe Republic labeled it "retarded".  Just delete the posts and move on without worrying about points. 

[Lambsbread]

I got 10/10 points in the thread Mecha made with all the swearing, even though I usually get about 5/10. Clearly the mods are stepping up their crusade to purge the Atlas of all naughty words.

[tik 🪀✨]

Dave set up the system, and of course it is imperfect. The idea I suppose was that it was intended to try to minimize subjectivity. Obviously it does not eliminate it, and within a certain range, different Mods do different things, and have different things they focus on.

Rather than curse the darkness however, I would be interested in having illuminated what creative minds think might be a better system. Yes, I know, some just think nobody should be disciplined for anything, and just everything should go around here. Since Dave is not going to let that happen, are there any other ideas?

Granted this is basically a masturbatory exercise, since the odds of anything changing are close to absolute zero. Such is life.

Sure. I have an alternative system that is nearly as needlessly cumbersome and subjective.

Let's say someone posts something against the rules. The moderator would change or delete the post immediately upon discovering it. The next step is to mute that person for double the amount of time they were last muted, but the decision to go ahead and do so must be reviewed by at least two other moderators who agree that it is warranted. If one doesn't agree, they scrap the muting. Someone's first mistake gets them muted for four hours. Their second, eight hours. Their third, sixteen. Their fourth - thirty-two hours.

This would do a few things - first, the offending post is still immediately dealt with. Second, there is a fairly real, concrete punishment every single time a person breaks the rules that gets worse exponentially for repeat offenders. Third, the decision to do so probably happens at a fairly later time and it requires the agreement of other people, spreading the responsibility.

Most posters will hate this idea, I'm sure. That's okay - it seems unlikely to happen. It's just an alternative.

[PJ]

Penalties simply need to reduced, especially for profanity that's not directing at another poster. Muting Mechaman and banning Barfbag were issues, but the system has benefits when real trolls arrive.

[muon2]

Dave set up the system, and of course it is imperfect. The idea I suppose was that it was intended to try to minimize subjectivity. Obviously it does not eliminate it, and within a certain range, different Mods do different things, and have different things they focus on.

Rather than curse the darkness however, I would be interested in having illuminated what creative minds think might be a better system. Yes, I know, some just think nobody should be disciplined for anything, and just everything should go around here. Since Dave is not going to let that happen, are there any other ideas?

Granted this is basically a masturbatory exercise, since the odds of anything changing are close to absolute zero. Such is life.

Sure. I have an alternative system that is nearly as needlessly cumbersome and subjective.

Let's say someone posts something against the rules. The moderator would change or delete the post immediately upon discovering it. The next step is to mute that person for double the amount of time they were last muted, but the decision to go ahead and do so must be reviewed by at least two other moderators who agree that it is warranted. If one doesn't agree, they scrap the muting. Someone's first mistake gets them muted for four hours. Their second, eight hours. Their third, sixteen. Their fourth - thirty-two hours.

This would do a few things - first, the offending post is still immediately dealt with. Second, there is a fairly real, concrete punishment every single time a person breaks the rules that gets worse exponentially for repeat offenders. Third, the decision to do so probably happens at a fairly later time and it requires the agreement of other people, spreading the responsibility.

Most posters will hate this idea, I'm sure. That's okay - it seems unlikely to happen. It's just an alternative.

Torie beat me to the idea of opening up the suggestion box, and Tik's idea is exactly what I'd hope to see. It's a sound idea, though not without its own consequences. I hope others will follow Tik with their suggestions, and reactions to others' ideas.

[DINGO Joe]

Remember, guns don't kill people, mods do.

[© tweed]

Yes, I know, some just think nobody should be disciplined for anything, and just everything should go around here. Since Dave is not going to let that happen, are there any other ideas?

Dave absolutely would not voice any concern with a >90% reduction in moderation on the Forum.  limited to the most obvious cases: posting porn, copyright violations and resulting complaints, too many f-bombs, etc.

[ElectionsGuy]

horrible.

[Napoleon]

Obviously a great idea, considering the source.

[Paul Kemp]

Obviously a great idea, considering the source.

lol.

[Lief 🗽]

Obviously a great idea, considering the source.

lol.

hahah that's amazing, great find

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

When I got here Alcon, Joe, Bushie, Al, Gustaf etc........didn't have any troubles and life went on just fine, with no complaints.  Hell, Alcon, moderated the two troll boards by himself, and no one bitched. 

Take it back to simpler times.

[minionofmidas]

The two troll boards... [year two to five years in the future] presidential election and... ?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The two troll boards... [year two to five years in the future] presidential election and... ?

FC and OT, but yeah, the presidential election boards have devolved into troll boards for sure.

[sentinel]

Eh, its fine.

[Torie]

Yes, I know, some just think nobody should be disciplined for anything, and just everything should go around here. Since Dave is not going to let that happen, are there any other ideas?

Dave absolutely would not voice any concern with a >90% reduction in moderation on the Forum.  limited to the most obvious cases: posting porn, copyright violations and resulting complaints, too many f-bombs, etc.

You think? Who do you think concocted this little list:

[© tweed]

Yes, I know, some just think nobody should be disciplined for anything, and just everything should go around here. Since Dave is not going to let that happen, are there any other ideas?

Dave absolutely would not voice any concern with a >90% reduction in moderation on the Forum.  limited to the most obvious cases: posting porn, copyright violations and resulting complaints, too many f-bombs, etc.

You think? Who do you think concocted this little list:

doesn't prove a single thing.  certainly doesn't force Moderators to define each term in an ever-expaning manner.

[Eraserhead]

Obviously a great idea, considering the source.

lol.

hahah that's amazing, great find

Wow, everything has come full circle.

That whole thread is pretty great. I especially like the Bushie-Straha exchange. Classic Bushie.

[Mr. Morden]

Furthermore, I'm also implementing a new framework based on reported posts.  The following is a guideline and can be modified subject to moderator inputs.

• At 3, 6, and 9 reported posts in which a moderator deletes or modifies the post, a warning is generated that sends a PM to the member showing the original posts that were moderated.
• 10 reported posts in which a moderator deletes or modifies the post will place the member on moderated posting for 5 days. 
• 15 reported posts in which a moderator deletes or modifies the post will place the member on moderated posting for an additional 10 days. 
• 20 reported posts in which a moderator deletes or modifies the post will ban the member.

Imagine if the bolded had actually been implemented! 

[Marokai Backbeat]

Penalties simply need to reduced, especially for profanity that's not directing at another poster. Muting Mechaman and banning Barfbag were issues, but the system has benefits when real trolls arrive.

Does it? Anytime there's been serious disturbances, they're just kind of dealt with on sight, there's really no by-the-book dealing with certain people, which is the issue I have with this system. It seems to do nothing except get in the way of decent posters, and anytime it's directed at actual serious issues, infraction points are just inflated to reach whatever target the moderator wants to reach. It's nearly impossible to get banned by intended use of the infraction system unless you're deliberately trying to, and if a poster is that much of a nuisance they're usually eliminated before they get that far.

I have no real problem with most of the moderation on this site, but the system itself is a total farce. Despite protests to the contrary from some moderators, aside from "don't use profanity" and "don't post pornography" all the other rules and punishments are just made up as people go along. The main problem I have with it all is that people pretend most moderator actions are based on some sort of "system" when they're clearly not.