Why do modern cartoons suck so much? [my very first nostalgic rant]

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't know how widely held this view is (I've seen a few other people complain about it on the internet, but I'm not sure if they form a consensus) so apologies if I'm being Captain Obvious here, but I thought the feeling was worth sharing.

My childhood was spent astride between the late 1990s and early 2000s, so I think I've been able to witness firsthand the absolute decadence of Western animation that occurred at the turn of those two decades. Seriously, think back about it. Back when I was a little kid, we had cartoons with reasonably mature, elaborate, and meaningful storylines. They were still destined to children, obviously, but they didn't view children as morons, and some didn't even hesitate to tackle "adult" topics. The Gold Standard was obivously Batman: The Animated Series, which has already gone down in history as, not only one of the best cartoons ever made, but also one of the highest points of the Batman franchise.

But what really struck me (and eventually motivated me to start this thread) was rediscovering an obscure French cartoon called Chris Colorado, which I had first seen when I was 8. I rewatched it in full 3 years ago, and was amaze by just how complex and multidimensional its characters were (with full-fledged anti-villains and good guys who perform questionable acts), and the maturity of themes they managed to include: treason, unrequited love, madness, kinda-sorta drug addiction, post-apocalyptic humanity, genetic engineering, manipulation, tyranny/resistance (with a few glaring references to Nazi occupation), electoral politics, etc. And then you had its musical theme. Listen, just listen to it. Really, if this is your thing and if you can tolerate a small deal of cartoonish camp, you highly recommend watching it. You'll find all the episodes in English on youtube (since it was actually released in several countries).

Anyway, the point is that this cartoon was probably among the last of its kind. Starting in the 2000s or so, what I found on TV was increasingly silly, cheap, immature crap. Sure, this stuff had always existed to some extent, but now you can find almost only this. The only thing that saved my childhood from complete bore were Japanese anime (first Digimon Adventure, then stuff like Knights of the Zodiac... thank God). But from the West, all you get is moronic cartoons which don't take themselves - or their viewers - even remotely seriously, drop any pretense of basic logic or any ambition to tackle even remotely serious topics otherwise than through pseudo-satire (the satire in question consisting mainly in showing stupid and utterly uninteresting characters doing stupid things which more or less closely relate to real-life issue). Now, the "intellectual" cartoons are supposed to be Spongebob Squarepants, Family Guy, or, for the affectionate creeps, My Little Pony... Seriously, how have we sunk that low?

Maybe I'm making the picture a bit too grim, but again, I'm speaking based on my personal experience as a child and later as a teenager. Maybe I was just tuning in to the wrong channels (in Italy, I watched Cartoon Network, Disney Channel and later Fox Kids - in France, mainstream TV). I don't know. If anyone can point out something of the same caliber as the good cartoons of the 90s, I'll happily reconsider my judgment. But from what I've seen, its a pretty depressing tale.

[Antonio the Sixth]

...

I think I went full Naso, didn't I ? I guess that's fitting, coming right after I once again expressed my distaste for his antics.

[Maxwell]

I am glad you prefaced this by saying it was a nostalgic rant, so I don't have to read it. Nothing against you Antonio, but there is nothing that I dread more than "nostalgic" rambling.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I am glad you prefaced this by saying it was a nostalgic rant, so I don't have to read it. Nothing against you Antonio, but there is nothing that I dread more than "nostalgic" rambling.

No worries, I understand. I myself usually have a similar attitude.

I guess I'm just in the mood for this right now.

[Lief 🗽]

Have you watched Adventure Time? It's very good.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

There's plenty of good animated series still airing new episodes (Adventure Time as Lief said, Regular Show, Gravity Falls, the very controversial one about horses, etc.)

Spongebob was good until about 2004 or 2005 before they replaced all the writers.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Have you watched Adventure Time? It's very good.

Nope, never seen it (although it's probably because I've long stopped watching cartoons on TV altogether).

Reading through the Wikipedia article, it does seem to have some interesting elements. However, the awfulness of the drawings (thanks google images) is a huge turnoff.

[Oakvale]

Because you're no longer a child and thus don't find television shows aimed at children engaging?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Have you watched Adventure Time? It's very good.

Nope, never seen it (although it's probably because I've long stopped watching cartoons on TV altogether).

Reading through the Wikipedia article, it does seem to have some interesting elements. However, the awfulness of the drawings (thanks google images) is a huge turnoff.

Weird and crude character designs are part of the show's appeal.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Because you're no longer a child and thus don't find television shows aimed at children engaging?

Maybe... As I said, today I can still rewatch some cartoons from that time period and be genuinely interested (sure, the childish aspects sometimes bother me, but not that much). I think that "aimed at children" meant a different thing at that time than it does today.

Weird and crude character designs are part of the show's appeal.

I guess we just disagree on what makes a cartoon appealing. I mean, I'm not asking for uber-realistic design, but this stuff looks like it's for kids under 5.

[Lief 🗽]

Adventure Time's animation is beautiful and charming and hilarious. Still pictures of it don't do it justice.

[afleitch]

Adventure Time's animation is beautiful and charming and hilarious. Still pictures of it don't do it justice.

Smart show, great storytelling. I enjoy it.

As for 'modern cartoons' as someone who was too old to watch the stuff that Antonio watched, to me those were 'rubbish'; of course some were and some were not. Likewise a lot of the stuff I used to watch on viewing as an adult are just terrible.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Likewise a lot of the stuff I used to watch on viewing as an adult are just terrible.

I'm continually impressed at the ability of children to use their imaginations to make truly terrible things watchable/readable/etc.

[courts]

a lot of things coincided to produce the 1989-2000 animation boom: reagan-era deregulation and the still-profitability of saturday morning cartoons (which led to batman), cgi still being in its infancy, late boomers/gen x writers (who were influenced by things like rocky and bullwinkle and were generally more willing to push the envelope), etc. a lot of it was basically a happy accident.

also, digimon was bad. it was the poor man's pokemon in more ways than just the title.. and i knew that even as a 10 year old. but for some reason i watched anyway. i guess the characters were cute if bland. granted, the premise was actually pretty good (certainly better thought out than pokemon...) even if it totally failed to live up to its potential.

There's plenty of good animated series still airing new episodes (Adventure Time as Lief said, Regular Show, Gravity Falls, the very controversial one about horses, etc.)

Spongebob was good until about 2004 or 2005 before they replaced all the writers.

yeah but those are very much exceptions to the general trend. the 90s really were pretty remarkable in terms of the sheer volume produced in movies and cartoon shows that were critically well received. whereas something like say, nostalgia over '80s cartoons tends to be just that.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Have you watched Adventure Time? It's very good.

So is The Regular Show

[Associate Justice PiT]

Likewise a lot of the stuff I used to watch on viewing as an adult are just terrible.

I'm continually impressed at the ability of children to use their imaginations to make truly terrible things watchable/readable/etc.

     I tend to think more that children just have terrible taste.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

yeah but those are very much exceptions to the general trend. the 90s really were pretty remarkable in terms of the sheer volume produced in movies and cartoon shows that were critically well received. whereas something like say, nostalgia over '80s cartoons tends to be just that.

Yeah, the quality of animation has had its ups and downs. However, the current trend seems to at least be a rise from the mid-2000's, which in many respects were the low point of modern Western culture.

[morgieb]

I am glad you prefaced this by saying it was a nostalgic rant, so I don't have to read it. Nothing against you Antonio, but there is nothing that I dread more than "nostalgic" rambling.

Modern adult TV notwithstanding, IMO we're in a low point wrt popular culture.

[courts]

I am glad you prefaced this by saying it was a nostalgic rant, so I don't have to read it. Nothing against you Antonio, but there is nothing that I dread more than "nostalgic" rambling.

Modern adult TV notwithstanding, IMO we're in a low point wrt popular culture.

'modern adult tv' is pretty poor. a few shows on premium cable or amc not withstanding obviously.

[Sopranos Republican]

Have you watched Adventure Time? It's very good.

So is The Regular Show

^^^^ Both of these shows are amazing. Cartoon Network is legit, Nick has been awful since Spongebob started to decline.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Have you watched Adventure Time? It's very good.

So is The Regular Show

^^^^ Both of these shows are amazing. Cartoon Network is legit, Nick has been awful since Spongebob started to decline.

Spongebob used to be the best goddamned show on tv and now Nick is resorting to combining clips of it with the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which is a disgrace and everyone who works on that show should be beheaded) which makes me want to disembowel myself

[Antonio the Sixth]

also, digimon was bad. it was the poor man's pokemon in more ways than just the title.. and i knew that even as a 10 year old. but for some reason i watched anyway. i guess the characters were cute if bland. granted, the premise was actually pretty good (certainly better thought out than pokemon...) even if it totally failed to live up to its potential.

Really? I've always thought that the contrast with the absolutely horrendous, franchise-driven Pokemon cartoon was striking. It had a serious storyline (with real stakes, as opposed to that "I wanna be da best!!" crap), a good deal of character development, plenty of moments of awesome... Digimon is probably one of the cartoons which most made my childhood.

[Lurker]

Because you're no longer a child and thus don't find television shows aimed at children engaging?

Maybe... As I said, today I can still rewatch some cartoons from that time period and be genuinely interested (sure, the childish aspects sometimes bother me, but not that much). I think that "aimed at children" meant a different thing at that time than it does today.

I think the key word here is rewatch. As you've already seen and liked these shows in your childhood, you're predisposed to like them when viewing them now. If you watched the cartoons for the first time as an adult, I doubt you'd have the same reaction.

[anvi]

Peanuts and Looney Tunes.  Here my generation rules.  That is all.

[dead0man]

You've heard old people refer to "the good old days"?  This is the same phenomenon.  "stuff is crap now, not like when I was younger" is a common complaint throughout history.