Federal Budget Thread

[Sam Spade]

bumpity.  This will be done in the next couple of days or so, now that I have time to look at the figures.

[Sam Spade]

Ok, I have gone through the budget specifics and have gotten these numbers.

The total I get through adding the Departments and the Miscellaneous Agencies together is:

2,577.162 billion (or 2.57 trillion)

However, there are offsetting receipts, which look to be in the area of:

129.635 billion

And there is a little funny math here and there (probably adding Social Security surplus in and the like, by my totals, another 92.772 billion is subtracted), which gets the official numbers to: 

2,354.755 billion (2.35 trillion)

This deals only with BA (or Budget Authority), not with (O) outlays, which is about 45 billion more.  I am assuming we will go by the (BA) Budget Authority figure.

If John Ford finds things that we have to add to, it will have to be added under further approrpiations bills, I would assume.

Next, I will give a somewhat outlined account of the various American Departments, and then the Atlasian add-ons, and then hopefully we can get an actually preliminary budget and start assigning various departments to Cabinet positions.

[Sam Spade]

Budget (BA)
Just basing this off of the FY 2005 figures on the site John Ford linked to.

Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  4.376 billion
2.   Judicial Branch:  6.043 billion
Total:  10.419 billion

Cabinet Departments
3.   Agriculture Dept:            83.283 billion
4.   Commerce Dept:            5.837 billion
5.   Defense Dept. (military) –         402.633 billion
6.   Education Dept. –             66.434 billion
7.   Energy Dept. –             22.098 billion
8.   Health and Human Services Dept. –       571.589 billion
9.   Homeland Security Dept. -          31.414 billion
10.   Housing and Urban Development Dept. –   34.042 billion
11.   Interior Dept. –             10.591 billion
12.   Justice Dept. –             21.776 billion
13.   Labor Dept.:                57.321 billion
14.   State Dept.:                10.893 billion
15.   Transportation Dept.:             58.376 billion
16.   Treasury Dept.   :            396.511 billion*
17.   Veterans Affairs Dept.:         65.285 billion
Total:                     1,838.083 billion (1.84 trillion)

Other Outlays:
18.   Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:         3.989 billion
19.   Other Defense Civil Programs:         40.505 billion
20.   Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):      7.636 billion
21.   Executive Office of the President:         0.342 billion
22.   General Service Administration:         0.230 billion
23.   International Assistance Programs:         18.257 billion
24.   National Aeronautics and Space Administration:   16.245 billion
25.   National Science Foundation:            5.770 billion
26.   Office of Personnel Management:         63.688 billion
27.   Small Business Administration:         0.681 billion
28.   Social Security Administration:         555.031 billion
29.   Other Independent Agencies:            17.084 billion
30.   Allowances:                  -0.798 billion
Total:                        728.660 billion

Total (BA):  2,577.162 billion (2.58 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  129.635 billion (brings us to total of 2,447.527 billion (2.45 trillion))
Actual Total (BA):  2,354.755 billion (92.772 billion is subtracted from above)

Next, the Atlasian add-ons.

[A18]

I call upon the Senate to show some fiscal responsibility by abolishing at least one department this year/month.

[Sam Spade]

Atlasian Add-ons

1.   Agriculture Dept.:         1.000 billion
2.   Defense Dept.:            30.220 billion
3.   Education Dept.:         17.650 billion
4.   Energy Dept.            1.020 billion
5.   Transportation Dept.:         0.395 billion (Mag-Lev research, Waterways Act)
6.   Miscellaneous:         0.050 billion (John F. Kennedy memorial)   
Total Additional Atlasian expenditures:   50.335 billion

[Sam Spade]

The Atlasian Budget FY 2006[/b]

Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  4.376 billion
2.   Judicial Branch:        6.043 billion
Total:                           10.419 billion

Cabinet Departments
3.   Agriculture Dept:                       84.283 billion (+1.000 billion)
4.   Commerce Dept:                            5.837 billion
5.   Defense Dept. (military):                          432.853 billion (+30.220 billion)
6.   Education Dept.:                            84.084 billion (+17.650 billion)
7.   Energy Dept.:                                23.118 billion (+1.020 billion)
8.   Health and Human Services Dept.:              571.589 billion
9.   Homeland Security Dept.:                       31.414 billion
10.   Housing and Urban Development Dept.:   34.042 billion
11.   Interior Dept.:                               10.591 billion
12.   Justice Dept.:                               21.776 billion
13.   Labor Dept.:                           57.321 billion
14.   State Dept.:                           10.893 billion
15.   Transportation Dept.:                   58.771 billion (+0.395 billion)
16.   Treasury Dept.   :                      396.511 billion
17.   Veterans Affairs Dept.:                        65.285 billion
Total:                              1,888.368 billion (1.88 trillion)

Other Outlays:
18.   Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:      3.989 billion
19.   Other Defense Civil Programs:          40.505 billion
20.   Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):      7.636 billion
21.   Executive Office of the President:       0.342 billion
22.   General Service Administration:          0.230 billion
23.   International Assistance Programs:         18.257 billion
24.   National Aeronautics and Space Administration:   16.245 billion
25.   National Science Foundation:           5.770 billion
26.   Office of Personnel Management:            63.688 billion
27.   Small Business Administration:          0.681 billion
28.   Social Security Administration:            555.031 billion
29.   Other Independent Agencies:         17.134 billion (+0.050 billion
30.   Allowances:                     -0.798 billion
Total:                         728.710 billion

Total (BA):  2,627.497 billion (2.63 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  129.635 billion (brings us to total of 2,497.862 billion (2.50 trillion))
Actual Total (BA):  2,405.090 billion (2.41 trilion) (92.772 billion is subtracted from above)

PROPOSED BUDGET
2,405.090 Billion Dollars[/b][/i]
Projected Budget Deficit (according to John Ford) figures))
393.09 Billion Dollars[/i]

My first question is whether John Ford, as GM, is happy with this budget assumption that I'm basing the proposed budget on.

Next, after that.  After the Senate discusses this a little, I would like to how each one of these sectors fits in with our current 5-member Cabinet and allotment.  I will suggest a plan tomorrow.

After that, I will propose some cuts to programs that affect the United States, but will not affect Atlasia.  We can have votes on those, but I promise that I will only pick the most obvious choices (like the ones listed above).

Then, we can bring this thing to vote and get it through, hopefully.

King, if you could make this into a nice clean looking-document, once we get some of these issues ironed out, that would be nice.

Thanks.

[King]

Cabinet Departments
3.   Agriculture Dept:                       84.283 billion (+1.000 billion)
4.   Commerce Dept:                            5.837 billion
6.   Education Dept.:                            84.084 billion (+17.650 billion)
7.   Energy Dept.:                                23.118 billion
8.   Health and Human Services Dept.:              571.589 billion
9.   Homeland Security Dept.:                       31.414 billion
10.   Housing and Urban Development Dept.:   34.042 billion
11.   Interior Dept.:                               10.591 billion
13.   Labor Dept.:                           57.321 billion
15.   Transportation Dept.:                   58.771 billion (+0.395 billion)
17.   Veterans Affairs Dept.:                        65.285 billion

Considering none of these cabinet departments exist in Atlasia, I'd recommend you list them as something else.

[Sam Spade]

I realize that King.  I will put their various appropriations under the 5 distinct Cabinet departments we have right now (probably under the system you suggested).  I was just asking if anyone had any suggestions before I move forward.

My feeling right now is to also let the Independent agency stuff stay separate from the Cabinet departments, as it is here.  If there are no objections, I will move forward this evening.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So then... if your all serious about fiscal responsibility... how much are taxes going up by, how much is defense spending going down by and how much do you think you can save by making Government less "wasteful"?

Honest answers please

[A18]

Abolishing the educaiton department would be a great start.

[Sam Spade]

So then... if your all serious about fiscal responsibility... how much are taxes going up by, how much is defense spending going down by and how much do you think you can save by making Government less "wasteful"?

Honest answers please

I find it sort of ironic that you would say that, Al, because you are the one who said...

"It's not real money, kids."

If it were me, in general I would get rid of the Medicaid program and the Prescription drug legislation for Medicare (the one that Bush passed a few years before), as these are the two greatest and most perverse examples of socialism that will drain our country much, much more in the future.

All in all, that would yield about $500 billion dollars for this FY 2006 and countless trillions in the future.

I would also probably cut Akno's Education, etc... legislation, because it is just pointless spending.

However, I really sincerely doubt the Senate will go along with this.  Fiscal responsibility is not usually our nature in this chamber.

I will be against any general tax raises on the public at large, as they do not really serve any purpose, other than to slow the economy down. 

Nym90, Colin and I will work on cleaning out some unnecessary programs and stuff; hopefully the Senate will be kind enough to take our suggestions.

I also have a couple of suggestions for minor things to cut that are not applicable in Atlasia, but these are just minor things and won't amount to much budgetarily.

This is what the Senate will probably have to pass in order to reach a consensus, chances are.  The deficit will have to be cut down over time slowly, unfortunately.  But I will work towards that in government the best I can, while I can.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

My fake money remark was intended as a joke you know

Thanks for confirming your motives as far as the budget goes.

[Sam Spade]

My fake money remark was intended as a joke you know

Thanks for confirming your motives as far as the budget goes.

My motives?  You make it sound as if I'm trying to deliberately hide something. 

My statements above as to what I would like to cut are "ideals", not practical matters, especially in this Senate.  I am always willing to compromise over things as well, even if I have to give up some of my ideals.

My goal here is to pass a budget most of all, and if that means having a budget deficit that I find abhorrent.  Right now, the budget deficit is roughly 3.5% of GDP.  I would like to get that down to 2% or so.  That would probably mean cutting 150 billion or so from the budget.  A lot, but not entirely unreasonable.

Not that I think budget deficits or debt in general is necessarily bad; they certainly help with regards to bonds and other things in the government and outside.  This is one of the reasons why I am opposed to a balanced budget amendment.

However, I feel the debt and deficit is to high right now with regards to GDP.  There are certain percentages of those two things I have in mind right now (as historical averages), but I am willing to inch my way towards that.

By the way, on defense, when we get together on the "Waste Reduction Committee" thing, we will most certainly talk to Jake and see if there are any Defense budget things that are no longer necessary and can be cut.  I will certainly cut Defense programs that are no longer seen by the Defense department as vital.

[Jake]

What does the OPM do with 63 billion dollars.  It sounds like a massive bureaucracy.  Maybe that can get the axe, and be replaced with something smaller?

As far as cabinet alocation. how about this?

Defense and Security
Defense Dept
Homeland Security Dept
Vet Affairs Dept
Energy Dept
Dept of Interior

Treasury
Soc Sec Admin
Treasury Dept
Commerce Dept

Sec State
Dept of State

Att Gen
Justice Dept

Department of Social Services     Proposed
Labor Dept
HUD Dept
HHS Dept
Agriculture Dept
Education Dept
Transportation Dept (either here or Defense)

If we don't add a cabinet member, Treasury gets all of the last Depts.

[The Duke]

How is our deficit smaller than the Federal deficit when we've spent more money than they have?

[Sam Spade]

How is our deficit smaller than the Federal deficit when we've spent more money than they have?

This is a good question.  I can only tell you that I did the math and that's what I came up with.

I will try and redo the figures and see if anything's wrong, but I don't see anything off-hand at the moment, except for that 92.772 billion that appears to not exist as receipts or off-hand contributions.

As GM, it's up to you to really determine whether that 92.772 billion subtraction actually exists or not.  That would make the budget deficit more around 485 billion.

It's the only thing I can find wrong with the budget so far.

[Sam Spade]

Or we can use the actual Outlay total of 2,399.843 billion (plus Atlasian increases), which would make this weird subtraction figure much smaller and leave us with a Budget deficit of about 440 billion dollars.

Like I said, this is a really a GM question for me, because the budget is sort of confusing on these things, honestly.

[Sam Spade]

Jake, I am fine with your allotment of resources, though I think we probably shouldn't create a new department just yet.  (mainly because I don't know who would handle it).

Given that, here's how things shape up:

The Atlasian Budget FY 2006[/b]

Branches of Government:
1.   Legislative Branch:  4.376 billion
2.   Judicial Branch:        6.043 billion
Total:                           10.419 billion

Cabinet Departments

Defense Department:                                     563.261 billion
1.   Defense Sub-Dept. (military):                          432.853 billion (+30.220 billion)
2.   Energy Sub-Dept.:                                23.118 billion (+1.020 billion)
3.   Homeland Security Sub-Dept.:                       31.414 billion
4.   Interior Sub-Dept.:                               10.591 billion
5.   Veterans Affairs Sub-Dept.:                       65.285 billion

Treasury Department                                     1,292.438 billion (1.29 trillion)
1.   Agriculture Sub-Dept:                       84.283 billion (+1.000 billion)
2.   Commerce Sub-Dept:                            5.837 billion
3.   Education Sub-Dept.:                            84.084 billion (+17.650 billion)
4.   Health and Human Services Sub-Dept.:              571.589 billion
5.   Housing and Urban Development Sub-Dept.:   34.042 billion
6.   Labor Sub-Dept.:                           57.321 billion
7.   Transportation Sub-Dept.:                   58.771 billion (+0.395 billion)
8.   Treasury Sub-Dept.   :                      396.511 billion

Justice Dept:                                                     21.776 billion

State Dept.                                 10.893 billion

Total:                              1,888.368 billion (1.88 trillion)

Other Outlays:
18.   Corps of Engineers – Civil Works:      3.989 billion
19.   Other Defense Civil Programs:          40.505 billion
20.   Environmental Protection Agency (EPA):      7.636 billion
21.   Executive Office of the President:       0.342 billion
22.   General Service Administration:          0.230 billion
23.   International Assistance Programs:         18.257 billion
24.   National Aeronautics and Space Administration:   16.245 billion
25.   National Science Foundation:           5.770 billion
26.   Office of Personnel Management:            63.688 billion
27.   Small Business Administration:          0.681 billion
28.   Social Security Administration:            555.031 billion
29.   Other Independent Agencies:         17.134 billion (+0.050 billion
30.   Allowances:                     -0.798 billion
Total:                         728.710 billion

Total (BA):  2,627.497 billion (2.63 trillion)
Offsetting Receipts:  129.635 billion (brings us to total of 2,497.862 billion (2.50 trillion))
Actual Total (BA):  2,405.090 billion (2.41 trilion) (92.772 billion is subtracted from above)

PROPOSED BUDGET
2,405.090 Billion Dollars[/b][/i]
Projected Budget Deficit (according to John Ford) figures))
393.09 Billion Dollars[/i]

[Jake]

Oh, you, might want to give me NASA and the EPA to me and the Natl Science Foundation to Treasury.  Does anyone know what the Office of Personel Management does?

[Sam Spade]

Oh, you, might want to give me NASA and the EPA to me and the Natl Science Foundation to Treasury.  Does anyone know what the Office of Personel Management does?

Mainly, it handles Civil service and employee retirement and disability funds.  For the federal government, I would assume.

[Jake]

Oh, you, might want to give me NASA and the EPA to me and the Natl Science Foundation to Treasury.  Does anyone know what the Office of Personel Management does?

Mainly, it handles Civil service and employee retirement and disability funds.  For the federal government, I would assume.

Maybe you three would want to cut its budget a bit.  I've heard the best way to get a business to streamline is to cut its budget.

[Sam Spade]

Oh, you, might want to give me NASA and the EPA to me and the Natl Science Foundation to Treasury.  Does anyone know what the Office of Personel Management does?

Mainly, it handles Civil service and employee retirement and disability funds.  For the federal government, I would assume.

Maybe you three would want to cut its budget a bit.  I've heard the best way to get a business to streamline is to cut its budget.

I'm waiting to start on that once the other two get back into town.  I've got some reasonable small cuts that I want to approve first, because they're sort of obvious.

[jokerman]

My recomendation for taxation is a cut in non-scientific/r+d corporate income tax subsidies and a roll back of Bush's tax cuts to the wealthy.  I am also working on a bill for the Senate to work on that would put a limit on the tax refunds any one individual could receive.  
My recomendation for spending is a small cut in the Deps of Agriculture and Commerce and overall cuts in administrative expenditures.

[Sam Spade]

My proposal of reasonable cuts totaling $1.340 billion.

From Other Independent Agencies ($417 million)

Elimination of the Election Assistance Commission at a savings of $50 million to the Atlasian taxpayer.  (lines 386-397).
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

Elimination of the Federal Election Commission at a savings of $52 million to the Atlasian taxpayer.  (lines 617-622)
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

Elimination of the National Archives and Records Administration at a savings of $304 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 823-879)
Rationale: Unnecessary in Atlasia.  The Atlas Wiki forms our Archives and Records

Elimination of the Office of Government Ethics at a savings of $11 million to the Atlasian taxpayer.
Not really needed in Atlasia.  We can police our own ethical problems (not naming names).

From General Services Administration ($20 million)

Elimination of the Electronic Government (E-Gov) fund at a savings of $5 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 103-111).
Rationale: Unnecessary in Atlasia.  The Atlas Wiki forms our Electronic Services to the public.

Elimination of FCIC (Federal Citizen Information Center) at a savings of $15 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 129-138).
Rationale: Unnecessary in Atlasia.  The Atlas Wiki forms our Electronic Services to the public.

From Department of the Treasury (Treasury Sub-Dept.) ($55 million)

Elimination of the Presidential Election Campaign fund at a savings of $55 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer (lines 76-78)
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

From Department of the Treasury (Commerce Sub-Dept.)($848 million)

Elimination of the Bureau of the Census at a savings of $848 million to the Atlasian Taxpayer. (lines 106-148)
Rationale: Unnecessary because of position of SoFA

In perusing through the Federal budget, there is a lot of junk (IMO, pork) that deserves cutting, but we'll just have to decide that sometime else, unless someone has a particular interest in something.

Also, I might be missing some stuff that's useless in Atlasia.  If so, please point it out.

[Sam Spade]

My recomendation for taxation is a cut in non-scientific/r+d corporate income tax subsidies and a roll back of Bush's tax cuts to the wealthy.  I am also working on a bill for the Senate to work on that would put a limit on the tax refunds any one individual could receive. 
My recomendation for spending is a small cut in the Deps of Agriculture and Commerce and overall cuts in administrative expenditures.

I will naturally oppose any tax hikes on the hard-working citizens of Atlasia, no matter how much they make.  I am not particularly interested in tax cuts either.

If there's any way to cut back of corporate income tax subsidies fairly, I would probably be open to that.

I am hoping that in the next few weeks that hughento will present his tax plan to us for consideration. (if you're listening hughento, I do think what you proposed is very important).