Why are the worst suburbs across state lines?
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  Why are the worst suburbs across state lines?
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Author Topic: Why are the worst suburbs across state lines?  (Read 1103 times)
dpmapper
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« on: January 10, 2014, 08:22:51 AM »

It seems to me that, for cities that border other states, it is almost always the case that the suburb (or, really, smaller city in the metro area) in the worst shape lies across a state line. 

For instance:

Chicago -> Gary
St. Louis -> East St. Louis
Philadelphia -> Camden
New York -> Newark

Maybe Memphis-> West Memphis, KC -> KCK are examples as well?  I don't know enough about Cincinnati, Charlotte, or Portland to answer for them.  Omaha or Louisville might be too small of a metro area to have a really bad suburb?   

Anyway, if this is true, why might it be? 
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Sol
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 09:10:07 AM »

Charlotte's suburbs in SC are all rich- none of them are particularly poor, from what I understand.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2014, 12:33:05 PM »

It seems to me that, for cities that border other states, it is almost always the case that the suburb (or, really, smaller city in the metro area) in the worst shape lies across a state line. 

For instance:

Chicago -> Gary
St. Louis -> East St. Louis
Philadelphia -> Camden
New York -> Newark

Maybe Memphis-> West Memphis, KC -> KCK are examples as well?  I don't know enough about Cincinnati, Charlotte, or Portland to answer for them.  Omaha or Louisville might be too small of a metro area to have a really bad suburb?   

Anyway, if this is true, why might it be? 
Conjecture: The wealthiest persons tend to live in the major cities, and there are also typically more cultural institutions and universities.  The state line cuts off expansion of the cities proper, so the cross-state areas may be close, but are separate.  There may not be jobs created in these areas.  Housing is cheaper and there is less resistance to Blacks moving in, or Whites moving further out.
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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 12:58:57 PM »

With the exception of Gary, all the places mentioned are at a distance that could plausibly be within the city limits except for the fact that the city center abuts a river which forms a state boundary. So it may be not so much that the state line actually causes suburban areas to be poor, but rather that the state line makes essentially urban areas to count in some technical sense as "suburban".
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 01:08:25 PM »

Actually, Newark is far more of an exception than Gary. (Now... if the OP had referred to Jersey City...)
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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 02:13:45 PM »

Actually, Newark is far more of an exception than Gary. (Now... if the OP had referred to Jersey City...)

Newark is about equidistant from Lower Manhattan as East New York or the south Bronx, so one can imagine a hypothetical NYC that went as far into NJ as it actually does into NY including it. That's all I meant to be getting at.

When I lived in NJ the train I would take into New York stopped at Secaucus Junction after Newark (sometimes delayed there due to the bottlenecked rail tunnel under the Hudson whose expansion Chris Christie cancelled) so I am unfortunately well acquainted with the industrial swampland along the Hackensack.
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jfern
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 03:42:54 PM »

When I lived in NJ the train I would take into New York stopped at Secaucus Junction after Newark (sometimes delayed there due to the bottlenecked rail tunnel under the Hudson whose expansion Chris Christie cancelled) so I am unfortunately well acquainted with the industrial swampland along the Hackensack.

Someone there probably forgot to endorse Christie.
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HAnnA MArin County
semocrat08
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 08:38:24 PM »

Jefferson County (southern St. Louis suburbs) consistently has the highest number of meth lab busts in the state of Missouri, although their western exurban neighbors in Franklin County are close contenders in a not-so-distant second place. I'm not sure if that's worse than a casual cruise through East St. Louis, though.
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ag
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 09:32:45 PM »
« Edited: January 10, 2014, 09:34:51 PM by ag »

Actually, Newark is far more of an exception than Gary. (Now... if the OP had referred to Jersey City...)

Newark is far easier to get to from Midtown or the Village than most of NYC. PATH takes about 20 or 25 min from Christopher St. - actually, there are places in Manhattan where the subway takes longer. The bits of swamp in between notwithstanding, this would not have been a different city, if not for the state line.
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ag
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 09:37:47 PM »

State lines cut up urban areas, making technical "suburbs" of what would have been inner city districts otherwise.

Newark, of course is (or, at least, used to be) quite a separate urban core - but then so was Brooklyn. In any case, whether it is a separate inner city, or an extension of NYC, Newark is not a suburb in any sense of the word. The same, I guess, is frequently true in other places as well.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 05:16:45 PM »

The examples you listed are more a matter of racial segregation than the presence of state boundaries.

Overland Park (KS) is certainly not worse off than Kansas City. Council Bluffs (IA) isn't worse than Omaha.
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