Uganda passes tough anti-gay laws.

[Silent Hunter]

It's actually too bad the country still isn't run from Westminister.

When it was run from Westminster, gay sex was still illegal.

[Cory]

Awful new laws, though perhaps not as awful as the racism/neo-colonialism pervading this thread.

*facepalm*

So anti-gay laws in Uganda aren't as "awful" as having your feelings hurt on an internet message board? Ugh.

If someone behaves like a savage they will be called one. Barbarism is real, not all cultures are equal.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

It's actually too bad the country still isn't run from Westminister.

When it was run from Westminster, gay sex was still illegal.

Indeed, it's quite likely that Uganda's first anti-gay sex laws were passed in the Colonial period. Certainly that's true for a lot of other countries.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So then, what are you going to do about it?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It occurs to me that racism is not necessarily a nobler sentiment than homophobia.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Given some of the intellectual background of the emergence of that ideology from the 1890s onwards, would there be anything more intellectually ironic than the concept of Sexual Liberationalist Imperialism?

Oooh... tough one. I'll get back to you on this.

[Boris]

It's actually too bad the country still isn't run from Westminister.

When it was run from Westminster, gay sex was still illegal.

Yes, but along came Harold Wilson and David Cameron

[LeBron]

So a massive, international cause is created by Jason Russell to fend off someone who was an evil, evil bastard (Kony), yet nobody will step up to go off on the Ugandan Parliament about these terrible freedom restricting laws? Giving life-imprisonment to people who they were born as is not right and shouldn't have to fear for their lives even more over there.

The only positive thing I can even find to say about this is at least they had the sanity to do away with the death penalty provision. Uganda sure as hell should never want to join the likes of the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea or others in that club. NK I don't think officially has any laws against it, but I would assume that's because they're just so isolated that they don't even know what homosexuality is and if any male/male or female/female were caught doing anything sexual, then R.I.P.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

So anti-gay laws in Uganda aren't as "awful" as having your feelings hurt on an internet message board? Ugh.

As a matter of general principle homophobia is about equally awful to racism, is the point that we're trying to make.

[Famous Mortimer]

Don't blame savages for their own savage behavior. Instead, blame Western White people, because Black Africans can't be held responsible for their own actions.

God, the PC left are annoying.

[The Free North]

Don't blame savages for their own savage behavior. Instead, blame Western White people, because Black Africans can't be held responsible for their own actions.

God, the PC left are annoying.

Yeah was going to post this after reading the clown on page 1 who was blaming Americans for this.

It's really more comical than anything else because anyone with that logic cant be taken seriously at all.

[Cory]

As a matter of general principle homophobia is about equally awful to racism, is the point that we're trying to make.

This isn't about race, despite how much as you want it to be.

[afleitch]

Don't blame savages for their own savage behavior. Instead, blame Western White people, because Black Africans can't be held responsible for their own actions.

God, the PC left are annoying.

Yeah was going to post this after reading the clown on page 1 who was blaming Americans for this.

It's really more comical than anything else because anyone with that logic cant be taken seriously at all.

That was me. Spend five ing minutes acqianting yourself before you darken my door again.

[Sol]

The point that everyone here is trying to make is that calling Ugandans "savages" has rather unfortunate historical racial connotations, and that that attitude is the kind which encourages that kind of legislation in Africa.

And actually, a lot of homophobia in Africa is due to attitudes either introduced by European colonizers like Britain during the Victorian era- which was of course, outlandishly homophobic, or by American Missionaries.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

As a matter of general principle homophobia is about equally awful to racism, is the point that we're trying to make.

This isn't about race, despite how much as you want it to be.

What makes you think I 'want' this to 'be about race'?

[opebo]

You're missing the point, though that's unsurprising from you.

My point is we should instill in them a desire to overcome their humble origins.  Castigating them with those origins when they misbehave is part of the learning process.

You do realize just what an imperialist cur you sound like, right?

Of course - that's the point.  All tools should be used in the 'good fight'.

[Famous Mortimer]

The point that everyone here is trying to make is that calling Ugandans "savages" has rather unfortunate historical racial connotations, and that that attitude is the kind which encourages that kind of legislation in Africa.

And actually, a lot of homophobia in Africa is due to attitudes either introduced by European colonizers like Britain during the Victorian era- which was of course, outlandishly homophobic, or by American Missionaries.

So it's your position that Black Africans are borderline retards incapable of understanding context or being held responsible for their own actions, therefore we should walk on eggshells to avoid offending them, least we somehow upset them and cause them act barbarically? I mean, obviously you wouldn't phrase it that way but how is that inaccurate in substance?

[politicallefty]

Any US aid that goes there should be stopped immediately. I'd also support stopping all trade and establishing sanctions. The US should certainly do its part to destroy the Ugandan economy.

[Sol]

The point that everyone here is trying to make is that calling Ugandans "savages" has rather unfortunate historical racial connotations, and that that attitude is the kind which encourages that kind of legislation in Africa.

And actually, a lot of homophobia in Africa is due to attitudes either introduced by European colonizers like Britain during the Victorian era- which was of course, outlandishly homophobic, or by American Missionaries.

So it's your position that Black Africans are borderline retards incapable of understanding context or being held responsible for their own actions, therefore we should walk on eggshells to avoid offending them, least we somehow upset them and cause them act barbarically? I mean, obviously you wouldn't phrase it that way but how is that inaccurate in substance?

You know, I don't even know where to begin with this post.

Firstly, my point about calling the Ugandan government "savages" is more based on Nathan's previous point:

The problem is that this specific manner of saying 'f**k you' to homophobic Ugandans tends to function as an incentive for them to find new ways to say 'f**k you' to LGBT Ugandans.

A huge part of the discussion of homosexuality in parts of the world other than North America and Western Europe is the idea that social acceptance of it and recognition of gay relationships is 'un[insert denomyn for non-Western country or region here]' and a Westernizing tendency or a symptom of some kind of decadence. This is false, and in the case of Uganda ultraconservative American Evangelical missionaries--whose actions and attitudes are often trusted more than those of Western governments--share a huge amount of the blame for encouraging these notions, but since it's fundamentally a form of scapegoating as a perceived cultural defense mechanism and moreover precisely since it does ruin people's lives, it's a false notion that we need to try our best not to inadvertently strengthen by choosing to refer to these people in, well, the sorts of terms that Western imperialists interested in ruining their countries' cultures would use. That is, calling them 'savages' is about the worst and most counterproductive possible way of expressing an obviously understandable and to an extent accurate sentiment.

It isn't thinking they're dumb- It's that calling Ugandans "savages" encourages the persecution of Gender and Sexual minorities in Uganda. Furthermore, "savages" has all sorts of unfortunate racial connotations- wouldn't "Jerks" be more appropriate, perhaps? Or "Bigots"?
The latter is really calling a spade a spade, eh?

[Indy Texas]

The point that everyone here is trying to make is that calling Ugandans "savages" has rather unfortunate historical racial connotations, and that that attitude is the kind which encourages that kind of legislation in Africa.

And actually, a lot of homophobia in Africa is due to attitudes either introduced by European colonizers like Britain during the Victorian era- which was of course, outlandishly homophobic, or by American Missionaries.

Being black or having been controlled by a foreign power at some point in history does not excuse you indefinitely from bad policymaking.

But it's worth pointing out that American evangelical groups have a big hand in this. They've basically accepted that they lost the culture war in America. They know gay marriage is inevitably going to be coming to their state within the next few years if it hasn't already. The major political party that they used to have considerable sway over is now more interested in economic issues than social issues. So they figure if they can't "save" America, they can "save" other countries that are more receptive to their entreaties.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's fine to condemn this - not just fine but right as this is atrocious - but the thought processes that lead to the word 'savages' being chosen as the means of condemnation are not particularly pretty ones.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I lay the blame at the foot of the activities of American evangelists than I do with the Ugandan people. Exporting homophobia is the Christian right's new colonialism.

This is probably the most accurate statement in this thread.  I'm quite certain Our Dear Friend and his crew do the same in Kenya. 

[Beet]

It's worth noting that not all Ugandans support the law just because it was passed by the government.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/131223/ugandan-gay-activists-vow-fight-ignorant-bill

[Cory]

What makes you think I 'want' this to 'be about race'?

Because you keep trying to make it that way. This isn't about race, it's a social thing. I would say the same of the Taliban or Serbian militants.

[Silent Hunter]

It's fine to condemn this - not just fine but right as this is atrocious - but the thought processes that lead to the word 'savages' being chosen as the means of condemnation are not particularly pretty ones.

Exactly; the word is too loaded with connotations.

[Ban my account ffs!]

The point that everyone here is trying to make is that calling Ugandans "savages" has rather unfortunate historical racial connotations, and that that attitude is the kind which encourages that kind of legislation in Africa.

And actually, a lot of homophobia in Africa is due to attitudes either introduced by European colonizers like Britain during the Victorian era- which was of course, outlandishly homophobic, or by American Missionaries.

Yeah cuz tiptoeing around their sensitive feelings, treating them like the victims of homosexual hedonism, and begging them not to kill me for being born wrong....
is totally how we should go about this.

Nope.  Savages.  Every last one who supports this law, whether they're black, green, or just have a blackened shriveled soul that they try to treat with hateful Bible verses.
SAVAGES
You think I give Russia a pass for their savagery?  As far as I'm concerned both countries need to be reeducated.