Uganda passes tough anti-gay laws.

[Storebought]

Africans express their homophobia as a nationalistic, or at least anti-western, reaction all the while their governments cheerfully accept western aid; while they stand in lines outside western embassies for hours in insufferable heat for the possibility of an entrance visa to Sodom and Gomorrah; while floating on furniture in the Mediterranean wishing to crash land into Europe. Even if the African himself never sets foot off the continent, he still happily accepts the remittances that his cousins in the Gay US or the Gay UK collect to send back home. It's as if Africans cannot apprehend that the mindset that allows gays to live in relative peace in western Europe/Canada/the good parts of the US is the same mindset that allows immigrant Africans themselves to live, and perhaps thrive, in western Europe/Canada/the good parts of the US for their benefit.

I wish I could say that it would be a great learning experience to resettle these Africans to their equally nationalistic and homophobic brethren in Russia, or China, or India, or the Middle East, or the dreadful parts of the US where the American missionaries are based, and see whether thrive in each, but I know better. Africans are already present in numbers in China and the Middle East, and, for all their complaints about the bigotry and abuse they face from their non-western inhabitants, the experience has not changed their base attitudes against people they think are inferior to them.

'Africans' in other parts of Africa that weren't their individual 'homelands' have had the same experiences for that matter (or even within their own countries some times).

Btw, I'm just wondering whether this is due to the nature of press reporting or the particular legacies of empire or the influence of American missionaries (who like to stick to their own language as much as possible by and large), but I'm getting the impression that these anti-gay campaigns are strongest in the formerly British parts of Africa.

Are you familiar with "corrective rape"? That was an atrocity that started in South Africa (where homosexuality is legal for white people), but has spread northwards because of Africa's internal population movements.

From my own conversations with Francophone Africans (who were Catholics) I suspect that Africans from Francophone nations aren't any more tolerant of homosexuality than anyone else from the rest of the continent. However, they might be less likely to use violence or statutory measures to 'correct' the issue. But that is only an assumption derived from a limited source.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Yes, alas, I know of it. I didn't know about its movement across Africa. Interesting although not hugely surprising. These sort of mores tend to be contagious and spread fast.

Ftr, when I was writing about migrants in Africa I was especially thinking of way 'Zimbabwean' migrants have been treated by black South Africans - at least in the townships.

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That sounds fairly plausible. It was merely a comment noting that pretty much all these cases (or at least those published in the media) - Botswana, Malawi, Kenya and Uganda primarily - have been former British colonies. South Africa too, but in colonial terms that's a special case.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Oh I will also add:

Nothing in this thread more shows the parochialism of many American and Western liberals than their focus of all of the blame for this on Christian Evangelicals and their megabucks. Not that that is of insignificant, it's the opposite of course but...

[Јas]

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

[DC Al Fine]

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

Evangelicals are turning into the the Western left's "TEH JOOS!!!"

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

Evangelicals are turning into the the Western left's "TEH JOOS!!!"

First they came for the racists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a racist.
Then they came for the homophobes, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a homophobe.
Then they came for the pro-lifers, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't pro-life.
Then they came for the marijuana opponents, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Adam C. FitzGerald.
Then they came for me, and there was nobody left to speak for me.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It's one thing to criticize conservative evangelicals for their role in lobbying for things like this. It's another to act like they are solely responsible or the only reason for it.

[afleitch]

It's one thing to criticize conservative evangelicals for their role in lobbying for things like this. It's another to act like they are solely responsible or the only reason for it.

I don't think, Bandwagon Bill, that people are. They certainly have a very strong case to answer though, given their contacts with the legislators who have often introduced or pushed for the legislation in the respective parliaments. The Ugandan bill was not a government bill, it was a private members bill submitted by David Bahati who is a member of the American based Christian group, ‘The Family’. He first suggested the bill (which originally included the death penalty) at the 2008 Prayer Breakfast. Much of the evangelical circle jerk bullsh**t such as, let’s be honest here direct linkage of pedophilia to homosexuality has been regurgitated by American evangelical groups without any concern for the audience. What did they think would happen? The bill was also heavily promoted by Martin Ssempa, who also had links, though his promotion of abstinence based anti HIV/AIDS programmes in Uganda to Rick Warren’s church (who has since denounced him) and other groups. So American evangelical groups have pumped money, made links and promoted the same anti-gay rhetoric and then act ‘astonished’ when it leads people to propose legislation like this.

[Link]

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

How long have you lived in Malawi?  I've spent decades living or visiting various parts of subsaharan Africa and I have no recollection of ever even hearing the average man on the street say the word gay... unlike Americans who seem to talk about little else.  I can't speak for an entire continent but in the various places I have lived in, gone to school in, and visited the antigay furor was whipped up initially by Westerners.  It may be hard to believe for some members of this forum but not every country has gay bars on every corner and confused teenagers yearning to come out of the closet.  The people I knew spent more time worrying about other more basic issues... like food, shelter, and education.  Regardless of orientation they didn't sit around chatting casually in mixed company about sex.  Hard to believe but there are places in this world where people are a bit more reserved about that subject.

If western countries are so concerned about this topic they need to ban their missionaries and activists from going to subSaharan Africa to impose their culture.  I honestly find a lot of the Western reporting on this subject hysterical and delusional.

A country full of poor, breeding ignorants - indoctrinated by religious fascists who believe the bible literally.

Then a result like this comes out of it. No surprise.

(But don't get me wrong here: I'm not a racist. I just have a problem with backwards ignorant crazy people, no matter if they happen to be black, Taliban or white FPÖ/Tea Party/Evangelical-people ...)

This dovetails nicely with your "All African Americans Sound the Same" thread.  Someone from Austria going on a rant like that and calling other people "fascists."  The irony is too much.

[Sol]

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

I can't speak for Malawi, but I know that anti-gay laws and attitudes in a lot of countries is a direct legacy of colonialism. Is that the case in Malawi?

[Јas]

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

How long have you lived in Malawi? 

Coming up on 4 years.

In Malawi at least, the idea that American evangelicals are the major force behind the anti-gay agenda is, I think, not an easily supportable hypothesis.

I can't speak for Malawi, but I know that anti-gay laws and attitudes in a lot of countries is a direct legacy of colonialism. Is that the case in Malawi?

In terms of the law, the Malawi Penal Code (ss. 153 and 156) bans “unnatural offenses” and “indecent practices between males”, rendering such activity punishable by up to 14 years in prison, including hard labour. These are legacy provisions from the era of British colonial rule.

In 2011, President Mutharika’s government secured passage of a Penal Code amendment (s.137A) further criminalising “indecent practices between females” – punishable by 5 years imprisonment. The amendment was put forward by the Government, officially on gender equality grounds.

The Courts here are currently hearing a challenge to the Constitutionality of the anti-gay legislation.


In terms of attitudes, the leading voices opposing decriminalisation come from religious groups. It should be noted that in Malawi, the religious bodies which have the widest support do not have evident links with western evangelicals. The largest religious groups are Catholics, Presbyterians, Muslims, and probably after that Seventh Day Adventists and Anglicans. These are not groups particularly malleable to the whims of visiting evangelicals. They're perfectly capable of finding anti-gay justification and rhetoric from their received religious texts on their own. Nor do they require outside funding to promote the cause. Religious attendance, identification and engagement are high - they have a willing audience for their message.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The largest religious groups are Catholics, Presbyterians, Muslims, and probably after that Seventh Day Adventists and Anglicans.

Given the extremely literalist interpretation of the Bible that the SDA has, I think it's safe to say that church will never approve of gay sex.  They'd have to give up literalism to do it and if they give up literalism they lose a large part of the reason for being Sabbatarian.