Drinking Age

[RosettaStoned]

Ideally, I would prohibit the sale of alcohol altogether. However, for the moment, I feel that the age of 18 is a suitable bar for alcohol consumption. I am opposed to getting rid of said bar, as I feel that, even if its difficult to actually stop people drinking alcohol under that age, the government should still take a stand and define what is and isn't acceptable by criminalising use under that age.

Aren't you Catholic?

That I am. However, the important thing in my case is that I am an English Catholic.

Ideally, I would prohibit the sale of alcohol altogether. However, for the moment, I feel that the age of 18 is a suitable bar for alcohol consumption. I am opposed to getting rid of said bar, as I feel that, even if its difficult to actually stop people drinking alcohol under that age, the government should still take a stand and define what is and isn't acceptable by criminalising use under that age.

If you have time, I'd advise that you watch "How Beer Saved the World" on Netflix.

It's true that for centuries alcoholic beverages were by and large the only safe alternative to water, which obviously was pretty dirty prior to the 20th century in the west. However, with the advent of both drinkable water and alternative non-alcoholic beverages, I cannot see any real purpose for alcohol anymore.

 Hmm, interesting. Are you from the Lake District?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

No minimum age for consumption, 18 to purchase.

[SWE]

No minimum age for consumption, 18 to purchase.

[IceSpear]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

Adam C. Fitzgerald

[LeBron]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

Adam C. FitzGerald

Umm, once I turn 21, I'm not going to drink either. I don't drink because it's illegal for me now, but it's heavily addictive and even I admit, the wine I've had at church before does taste good, and while I can consume things in moderation, it's not worth the risk to go on a road of depression, crime, weight problems, self-inflicting injuries, getting behind the wheel while drunk or having at least 0.05 of alcohol in your system, or hangovers.

If I could, I agree with Cassius in saying that the sale and smuggling of alcohol should be prohibited altogether. Since that will never happen in the U.S. though and the drinking age can't be raised either, I would support keeping alcohol consumption at 21 or older with an exception for those 18 and older who can have a small amount of an alcoholic beverage as long as there's parental supervision with guidelines. The problem with lowering it and providing this so-called "individual liberty" is high schoolers abuse alcohol more than anybody and are going to parties including some who have cars/licenses so not only is it a problem that it would hurt a student's academic performance, but they could get either seriously hurt or killed. I owe my concern to not only my parents, but also DARE and my religion teacher 5 years ago who showed us a real documentary about an average 16 year old teen who had been invited to a non-supervised, alcoholic party. His friends kept on encouraging him to drink and he finally did in excessive amounts, so then after the party, he made a terrible decision in driving home and started losing focus while speeding up and crashed hard. It didn't end his life, but the documentary focused on how he ended up losing most of his brain and bodily functions, talked with speech impediments, disabled, and had to learn everything over again like walking, communicating, and simple preschool/educational things as his friends went onto college. I was only 14 when I saw that, and it still hits me hard.

And yes, this is the first time I've admitted that I do support Prohibition without avoiding the question, so go ahead and Deluge it Snowstalker. :/

[Joe Republic]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

Inks.  Which should come as a surprise to nobody.

[free my dawg]

I drink to forget Adam's views on alcohol.

[Supersonic]

18 is sensible.

[politicallefty]

I stand by what I said before. There should be no minimum drinking/consumption age and the purchase age should be no higher than 18. At the very least, the National Minimum Drinking Age Act should be repealed, allowing each state to set its drinking laws.

It is worth mentioning that most states allow consumption of alcohol under the purchase age of 21. According to this, 41 states allow drinking under 21. The most common exception seems to be parental consent.

[MurrayBannerman]

I  like the European model: 16 for beer and wine; 18 for harder alcohol like liquor/spirits.  

I'd prefer harder stuff to be 19 or 20, aka out of high school.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

Adam C. FitzGerald

Umm, once I turn 21, I'm not going to drink either. I don't drink because it's illegal for me now, but it's heavily addictive and even I admit, the wine I've had at church before does taste good, and while I can consume things in moderation, it's not worth the risk to go on a road of depression, crime, weight problems, self-inflicting injuries, getting behind the wheel while drunk or having at least 0.05 of alcohol in your system, or hangovers.

If I could, I agree with Cassius in saying that the sale and smuggling of alcohol should be prohibited altogether. Since that will never happen in the U.S. though and the drinking age can't be raised either, I would support keeping alcohol consumption at 21 or older with an exception for those 18 and older who can have a small amount of an alcoholic beverage as long as there's parental supervision with guidelines. The problem with lowering it and providing this so-called "individual liberty" is high schoolers abuse alcohol more than anybody and are going to parties including some who have cars/licenses so not only is it a problem that it would hurt a student's academic performance, but they could get either seriously hurt or killed. I owe my concern to not only my parents, but also DARE and my religion teacher 5 years ago who showed us a real documentary about an average 16 year old teen who had been invited to a non-supervised, alcoholic party. His friends kept on encouraging him to drink and he finally did in excessive amounts, so then after the party, he made a terrible decision in driving home and started losing focus while speeding up and crashed hard. It didn't end his life, but the documentary focused on how he ended up losing most of his brain and bodily functions, talked with speech impediments, disabled, and had to learn everything over again like walking, communicating, and simple preschool/educational things as his friends went onto college. I was only 14 when I saw that, and it still hits me hard.

And yes, this is the first time I've admitted that I do support Prohibition without avoiding the question, so go ahead and Deluge it Snowstalker. :/

LMAO. I guess that makes the one person who took DARE seriously.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No minimum age for consumption, 18 to purchase.

[Hifly]

16 for purchase except for hard liquor, for which it should be officially 18, fake IDs accepted.

No legal age barrier for consumption.

[Oakvale]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

Adam C. FitzGerald

Umm, once I turn 21, I'm not going to drink either. I don't drink because it's illegal for me now, but it's heavily addictive and even I admit, the wine I've had at church before does taste good, and while I can consume things in moderation, it's not worth the risk to go on a road of depression, crime, weight problems, self-inflicting injuries, getting behind the wheel while drunk or having at least 0.05 of alcohol in your system, or hangovers.

If I could, I agree with Cassius in saying that the sale and smuggling of alcohol should be prohibited altogether. Since that will never happen in the U.S. though and the drinking age can't be raised either, I would support keeping alcohol consumption at 21 or older with an exception for those 18 and older who can have a small amount of an alcoholic beverage as long as there's parental supervision with guidelines. The problem with lowering it and providing this so-called "individual liberty" is high schoolers abuse alcohol more than anybody and are going to parties including some who have cars/licenses so not only is it a problem that it would hurt a student's academic performance, but they could get either seriously hurt or killed. I owe my concern to not only my parents, but also DARE and my religion teacher 5 years ago who showed us a real documentary about an average 16 year old teen who had been invited to a non-supervised, alcoholic party. His friends kept on encouraging him to drink and he finally did in excessive amounts, so then after the party, he made a terrible decision in driving home and started losing focus while speeding up and crashed hard. It didn't end his life, but the documentary focused on how he ended up losing most of his brain and bodily functions, talked with speech impediments, disabled, and had to learn everything over again like walking, communicating, and simple preschool/educational things as his friends went onto college. I was only 14 when I saw that, and it still hits me hard.

And yes, this is the first time I've admitted that I do support Prohibition without avoiding the question, so go ahead and Deluge it Snowstalker. :/

^ Literally the most fiendish post in Atlas Forum history. Drink up, everyone. You'll need it. "Drunk driving is bad so alcohol should be illegal". Maybe we should just go ahead and ban cars entirely, too.

[traininthedistance]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

I can think of multiple people from college who abstained (or all-but-abstained) before they turned 21, and decided to just start drinking like a normal person on their 21st birthday, and are happy, responsible boozers to this day.

Okay, I can't think of that many people.  But I live with one of them.

[traininthedistance]

^ Literally the most fiendish post in Atlas Forum history. Drink up, everyone. You'll need it. "Drunk driving is bad so alcohol should be illegal". Maybe we should just go ahead and ban cars entirely, too.

Well, to be fair drunk driving is real bad, and if you want to call me a nanny stater for being opposed to it I will wear that badge with pride.  But the obvious and correct solution is to change our building patterns and transportation system such that you don't need to drive yourself everywhere to get around- that's the real problem.  

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

While I don't disagree with anything Simfan has said in this thread, I have to be quite amused at how inconsistent it is with his views on marijuana.

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

I can think of multiple people from college who abstained (or all-but-abstained) before they turned 21, and decided to just start drinking like a normal person on their 21st birthday, and are happy, responsible boozers to this day.

Okay, I can't think of that many people.  But I live with one of them.

I do know of people who weren't particularly interested in alcohol, and didn't drink much if at all before 21, but afterwards did try it out sparingly and ended up drinking somewhat though not excessively.

But if you talk about someone who doesn't drink at all until their 21st birthday, in which they get completely and utterly sh!tfaced like most do, yeah such people don't exist.

[traininthedistance]

While I don't disagree with anything Simfan has said in this thread, I have to be quite amused at how inconsistent it is with his views on marijuana.

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

I can think of multiple people from college who abstained (or all-but-abstained) before they turned 21, and decided to just start drinking like a normal person on their 21st birthday, and are happy, responsible boozers to this day.

Okay, I can't think of that many people.  But I live with one of them.

I do know of people who weren't particularly interested in alcohol, and didn't drink much if at all before 21, but afterwards did try it out sparingly and ended up drinking somewhat though not excessively.

But if you talk about someone who doesn't drink at all until their 21st birthday, in which they get completely and utterly sh!tfaced like most do, yeah such people don't exist.

The people I'm thinking of (obviously, one of them being my GF) are very much not binge drinkers and avoid the whole loud bar or clubbing scene, but actively like the taste and effects of alcoholic beverages in quieter contexts- and they would have gladly taken it up earlier if it was legal to do so.

I guess it's probably the case that they were more turned off by the culture that's grown up around getting booze illegally than just the illegality of it, TBF.  But the actual illegality of it did factor in somewhat.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I've never met a person who chooses not to drink because it's illegal.

Adam C. FitzGerald

Umm, once I turn 21, I'm not going to drink either. I don't drink because it's illegal for me now, but it's heavily addictive and even I admit, the wine I've had at church before does taste good, and while I can consume things in moderation, it's not worth the risk to go on a road of depression, crime, weight problems, self-inflicting injuries, getting behind the wheel while drunk or having at least 0.05 of alcohol in your system, or hangovers.

If I could, I agree with Cassius in saying that the sale and smuggling of alcohol should be prohibited altogether. Since that will never happen in the U.S. though and the drinking age can't be raised either, I would support keeping alcohol consumption at 21 or older with an exception for those 18 and older who can have a small amount of an alcoholic beverage as long as there's parental supervision with guidelines. The problem with lowering it and providing this so-called "individual liberty" is high schoolers abuse alcohol more than anybody and are going to parties including some who have cars/licenses so not only is it a problem that it would hurt a student's academic performance, but they could get either seriously hurt or killed. I owe my concern to not only my parents, but also DARE and my religion teacher 5 years ago who showed us a real documentary about an average 16 year old teen who had been invited to a non-supervised, alcoholic party. His friends kept on encouraging him to drink and he finally did in excessive amounts, so then after the party, he made a terrible decision in driving home and started losing focus while speeding up and crashed hard. It didn't end his life, but the documentary focused on how he ended up losing most of his brain and bodily functions, talked with speech impediments, disabled, and had to learn everything over again like walking, communicating, and simple preschool/educational things as his friends went onto college. I was only 14 when I saw that, and it still hits me hard.

And yes, this is the first time I've admitted that I do support Prohibition without avoiding the question, so go ahead and Deluge it Snowstalker. :/

^ Literally the most fiendish post in Atlas Forum history. Drink up, everyone. You'll need it. "Drunk driving is bad so alcohol should be illegal". Maybe we should just go ahead and ban cars entirely, too.

There's wine in my parents' fridge, going to drink it now

[Oakvale]

^ Literally the most fiendish post in Atlas Forum history. Drink up, everyone. You'll need it. "Drunk driving is bad so alcohol should be illegal". Maybe we should just go ahead and ban cars entirely, too.

Well, to be fair drunk driving is real bad, and if you want to call me a nanny stater for being opposed to it I will wear that badge with pride.  But the obvious and correct solution is to change our building patterns and transportation system such that you don't need to drive yourself everywhere to get around- that's the real problem. 

Opposing drunk driving is hardly a nanny statist position, it's the idea that the logical solution to this is to ban alcohol that's ridiculous. You're absolutely right re: changing the transportation infrastructure to decrease the necessity of cars.

[Boris]

We're only going to have about 25 years more - max - of drunk driving deaths anyway...

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No minimum age for consumption or purchase. Telling teenagers that they can't drink does not achieve the intended result, and substituting law enforcement for discipline is about as stupid as policy-making can get.

I've been able to acquire whatever alcohol I can afford since I was 15, and I don't even have an older sibling. I would guess that the same holds true for most teenagers.

On the other hand, I've seen plenty of lives thrown off the rails by the ham-fisted and selective enforcement of anti-alcohol laws. As with other anti-drug laws, the actual effect is to alienate large parts of the public and to place more arbitrary power in the hands of cops.

They don't ID-check you where you live?

We're only going to have about 25 years more - max - of drunk driving deaths anyway...

How so?

[Boris]

We're only going to have about 25 years more - max - of drunk driving deaths anyway...

How so?

Current industry forecasts have self-driving vehicles making up a majority of those sold by the 2030s. And 2035 is closer in time to us than Gulf War I, Nevermind, T2, etcetera

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

We're only going to have about 25 years more - max - of drunk driving deaths anyway...

How so?

Current industry forecasts have self-driving vehicles making up a majority of those sold by the 2030s. And 2035 is closer in time to us than Gulf War I, Nevermind, T2, etcetera

"A majority of vehicles sold" is quite a bit different than "every single vehicle on the road", and that's assuming that industry forecasts are always right.

[Boris]

We're only going to have about 25 years more - max - of drunk driving deaths anyway...

How so?

Current industry forecasts have self-driving vehicles making up a majority of those sold by the 2030s. And 2035 is closer in time to us than Gulf War I, Nevermind, T2, etcetera

"A majority of vehicles sold" is quite a bit different than "every single vehicle on the road", and that's assuming that industry forecasts are always right.

Making nuanced predictions about the future isn't fun