Opinion of the average American public school teacher

[Maxwell]

From my experience with public and private schools, not nearly as FF as Private School teachers.

[TNF]

What TNF said (God, I have drifted left, haven't I?)

It's odd how we've become pretty ideological compatible, isn't it?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Teaching unions do exist in other countries, you know...

[morgieb]

I can't speak for America, but most teachers tend to be FF. Obviously there are a few poor ones though.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Mega Freedom Fighters. The Unions, not so much.....

[Cassius]

I'm sure there fine, as long as they don't try and pretend that they're teachers because they want to help children, rather than the truth in the vast majority of cases which is that they have become a teacher because it enables them to eat (which, btw, is no different to the vast majority of people who are in employment), or it was the easiest job that they could get into for the best salary.

[DINGO Joe]

I taught PS for 5 years (the way the retirement program is structured, that's the point many mentally commit themselves to 20-25 years or pull the rip cord).  Get paid more and have a less stressful job now.  Teaching had higher highs and lower lows than other work I've done.  Teaching did have more time off and opportunities for things like continuing education at minimal cost.  It's a large profession with variably skilled and motivated people and there were some who clearly had it at one point and now were running out the clock (which was a fate I personally feared).  Don't really keep up with the various reform efforts, so unfortunately I have little to add about what could be done to make it a better profession, though quality of life matters as much as money.  

[TDAS04]

I've had teachers who I didn't like, but the vast majority were fairly nice, and devoted to helping kids.  Especially here in South Dakota, the teachers clearly did not go into teaching because they wanted an easy job or a fat paycheck, and to say otherwise is beyond ridiculous.

Bad teachers exist, but the typical teacher deserves a higher salary than the typical teacher makes.  Any attempt at "merit pay" must take into account that failing students are not always the teacher's fault; the kids may have bad parents, or they may just be stubborn, lazy kids.  Conservatives preach "personal responsibility", yet some insist that teachers be responsible for everything all of their students do.

[TNF]

Mega Freedom Fighters. The Unions, not so much.....

Translation: I like teachers, just so long as they don't have a voice on the job.

[DINGO Joe]

I'm sure there fine, as long as they don't try and pretend that they're teachers because they want to help children, rather than the truth in the vast majority of cases which is that they have become a teacher because it enables them to eat (which, btw, is no different to the vast majority of people who are in employment), or it was the easiest job that they could get into for the best salary.

You're wrong as usual and hopelessly debilitated by your cynicism.

[The Dowager Mod]

I'm sure there fine, as long as they don't try and pretend that they're teachers because they want to help children, rather than the truth in the vast majority of cases which is that they have become a teacher because it enables them to eat (which, btw, is no different to the vast majority of people who are in employment), or it was the easiest job that they could get into for the best salary.

As a person who taught 4th grade at a public school because i thought i could make a difference in young peoples lives i can say you are an idiot.

[Marokai Backbeat]

A group that gets far less respect than they deserve. Frankly, I suppose that goes for most people in this country that politicians pretend to like but end up doing very little for. Teachers are perhaps the most important group of people our society has.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Better people than krazen.

[Flake]

American teachers are treated so poorly, they are blamed for everything children do and they get an awful salary, they need to be more valued in our society, and they have taken so much time in their lives to educate our children, and they should be rewarded more for helping this country not becoming a hellhole.

[© tweed]

check this out, my mom dated this dude in high school.
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Bad-Teacher-Shocking-Education/dp/1402281005

[Maxwell]

Better people than krazen.

So they're better than some guy on a random internet forum? Thanks.

[H. Ross Peron]

American teachers are treated so poorly, they are blamed for everything children do and they get an awful salary, they need to be more valued in our society, and they have taken so much time in their lives to educate our children, and they should be rewarded more for helping this country not becoming a hellhole.

[Peter the Lefty]

Massive FF on balance.  I've had a few that were @$$holes, but far more that were awesome.  Underpaid by far.

[Frodo]

I was fortunate enough that the teachers I have had when I was in public schools here in the United States (middle and high) were of high-quality.

That being said, the fact that the quality of the teachers is so dependent on the average income-status of the school is atrocious, not to mention that we as a society are willing to accept anyone to teach our kids no matter what their quality -and that our teachers' unions protect them.  So I can understand the appeal of school vouchers and charter schools given the circumstances.  

So in order to change these circumstances, I really don't see why we can't import from Finland the requirement that all our teachers should have at least a master's in Education from a high-quality Ivy League college/university.  And for the federal government to help fund their scholarships.  And then to pay them wages that are comparable to those of lawyers, or doctors.  Do that, and their status in society should rise, and with it beginning a virtuous cycle in which the very best-quality students would aspire to be teachers.  

With these changes (which I don't see the unions objecting to), the teachers unions would become allies in creating a high-quality education system as opposed to the obstructionists that they are now.          

What total bulls**t.

Do prove me wrong, then.  The teachers unions have quite an image problem to overcome.  One, I might add, of their own making.    

Teachers' unions have been leading the fight to improve funding for education, especially in towns like Chicago, where the CTU strike got positive results not just for teachers, but for the students themselves. They don't just represent themselves, they represent the schools and the students, too. The "greedy teachers' union" nonsense is right-wing bulls**t used to attack teachers and undermine support for public schools in general. The Obama administrations' campaign to destroy public education by funding charter schools (something that he has been far more successful at than Bush ever was) combined with the "derp school choice derp waiting for superman derp ebil unions" nonsense will not build better schools. It will only further undermine our public school system.

The only way to build a quality public education system is to build it hand in hand with the people who do the actual teaching. Give the unions more, not less power. Give the teachers a union hiring hall. Double their wages, shrink class sizes, assume federal funding for education (with local control), make higher education completely free, ban homeschooling, ban private schooling. Those things will go a lot further in improving American education than will attacking teachers and their unions.

It hasn't escaped my attention that you never mentioned my suggestion in requiring that all prospective teachers have at least a master's in Education from an Ivy League college/university.  A bachelor's will never cut it.  Nothing will begin to improve unless we start demanding better quality teachers.  We should never allow just anyone to teach future generations -we certainly don't do so in the field of medicine or law.  If we want to raise the status of teachers in society to that of doctors, lawyers, and businessmen (and pay them accordingly), they need to demonstrate that they have the qualifications for the job.  We don't allow anyone off the the street to become a doctor or lawyer, and neither should we allow just anyone to teach our kids.    

Don't gloss over it.  

[TNF]

I was fortunate enough that the teachers I have had when I was in public schools here in the United States (middle and high) were of high-quality.

That being said, the fact that the quality of the teachers is so dependent on the average income-status of the school is atrocious, not to mention that we as a society are willing to accept anyone to teach our kids no matter what their quality -and that our teachers' unions protect them.  So I can understand the appeal of school vouchers and charter schools given the circumstances.  

So in order to change these circumstances, I really don't see why we can't import from Finland the requirement that all our teachers should have at least a master's in Education from a high-quality Ivy League college/university.  And for the federal government to help fund their scholarships.  And then to pay them wages that are comparable to those of lawyers, or doctors.  Do that, and their status in society should rise, and with it beginning a virtuous cycle in which the very best-quality students would aspire to be teachers.  

With these changes (which I don't see the unions objecting to), the teachers unions would become allies in creating a high-quality education system as opposed to the obstructionists that they are now.          

What total bulls**t.

Do prove me wrong, then.  The teachers unions have quite an image problem to overcome.  One, I might add, of their own making.    

Teachers' unions have been leading the fight to improve funding for education, especially in towns like Chicago, where the CTU strike got positive results not just for teachers, but for the students themselves. They don't just represent themselves, they represent the schools and the students, too. The "greedy teachers' union" nonsense is right-wing bulls**t used to attack teachers and undermine support for public schools in general. The Obama administrations' campaign to destroy public education by funding charter schools (something that he has been far more successful at than Bush ever was) combined with the "derp school choice derp waiting for superman derp ebil unions" nonsense will not build better schools. It will only further undermine our public school system.

The only way to build a quality public education system is to build it hand in hand with the people who do the actual teaching. Give the unions more, not less power. Give the teachers a union hiring hall. Double their wages, shrink class sizes, assume federal funding for education (with local control), make higher education completely free, ban homeschooling, ban private schooling. Those things will go a lot further in improving American education than will attacking teachers and their unions.

It hasn't escaped my attention that you never mentioned my suggestion in requiring that all prospective teachers have at least a master's in Education from an Ivy League college/university.  A bachelor's will never cut it.  Nothing will begin to improve unless we start demanding better quality teachers.  We should never allow just anyone to teach future generations -we certainly don't do so in the field of medicine or law.  If we want to raise the status of teachers in society to that of doctors, lawyers, and businessmen (and pay them accordingly), they need to demonstrate that they have the qualifications for the job.  We don't allow anyone off the the street to become a doctor or lawyer, and neither should we allow just anyone to teach our kids.    

Don't gloss over it.  

Requiring a degree from an Ivy League school won't produce better teachers, it'll produce teachers from the same socioeconomic strata.

[Frodo]

I was fortunate enough that the teachers I have had when I was in public schools here in the United States (middle and high) were of high-quality.

That being said, the fact that the quality of the teachers is so dependent on the average income-status of the school is atrocious, not to mention that we as a society are willing to accept anyone to teach our kids no matter what their quality -and that our teachers' unions protect them.  So I can understand the appeal of school vouchers and charter schools given the circumstances.  

So in order to change these circumstances, I really don't see why we can't import from Finland the requirement that all our teachers should have at least a master's in Education from a high-quality Ivy League college/university.  And for the federal government to help fund their scholarships.  And then to pay them wages that are comparable to those of lawyers, or doctors.  Do that, and their status in society should rise, and with it beginning a virtuous cycle in which the very best-quality students would aspire to be teachers.  

With these changes (which I don't see the unions objecting to), the teachers unions would become allies in creating a high-quality education system as opposed to the obstructionists that they are now.          

What total bulls**t.

Do prove me wrong, then.  The teachers unions have quite an image problem to overcome.  One, I might add, of their own making.    

Teachers' unions have been leading the fight to improve funding for education, especially in towns like Chicago, where the CTU strike got positive results not just for teachers, but for the students themselves. They don't just represent themselves, they represent the schools and the students, too. The "greedy teachers' union" nonsense is right-wing bulls**t used to attack teachers and undermine support for public schools in general. The Obama administrations' campaign to destroy public education by funding charter schools (something that he has been far more successful at than Bush ever was) combined with the "derp school choice derp waiting for superman derp ebil unions" nonsense will not build better schools. It will only further undermine our public school system.

The only way to build a quality public education system is to build it hand in hand with the people who do the actual teaching. Give the unions more, not less power. Give the teachers a union hiring hall. Double their wages, shrink class sizes, assume federal funding for education (with local control), make higher education completely free, ban homeschooling, ban private schooling. Those things will go a lot further in improving American education than will attacking teachers and their unions.

It hasn't escaped my attention that you never mentioned my suggestion in requiring that all prospective teachers have at least a master's in Education from an Ivy League college/university.  A bachelor's will never cut it.  Nothing will begin to improve unless we start demanding better quality teachers.  We should never allow just anyone to teach future generations -we certainly don't do so in the field of medicine or law.  If we want to raise the status of teachers in society to that of doctors, lawyers, and businessmen (and pay them accordingly), they need to demonstrate that they have the qualifications for the job.  We don't allow anyone off the the street to become a doctor or lawyer, and neither should we allow just anyone to teach our kids.    

Don't gloss over it.  

Requiring a degree from an Ivy League school won't produce better teachers,

On what grounds do you make this claim? 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So what? 

[H. Ross Peron]

Erhm by Ivy League schools do you include schools that are more or less on the level of Ivies such as the UCs?

[Frodo]

Erhm by Ivy League schools do you include schools that are more or less on the level of Ivies such as the UCs?

Depends on their Education schools.  We are already well known for having the best doctors in the world, and that is in no small part due to the fact that we have such stringent standards for applicants.  And they are therefore paid handsomely.  And are regarded highly in our society.

I see no reason why the same can't also be applied to prospective teachers.  

[Marokai Backbeat]

A teacher can only use the tools they are given, they're not miracle workers. If you're a teacher in the middle of f**king nowhere, or some inner city teacher of a school that is perpetually underfunded, dealing with classes full of kids where the parents are so busy working their asses off because they get paid for s**t themselves that they barely have time to sleep 6 hours a night, let alone take hours of time for their kids, all of the Ivy League educations in the country aren't going to make those kids straight-A students. This is a really great policy to follow through on if you want no teachers.

[Frodo]

A teacher can only use the tools they are given, they're not miracle workers. If you're a teacher in the middle of f**king nowhere, or some inner city teacher of a school that is perpetually underfunded, dealing with classes full of kids where the parents are so busy working their asses off because they get paid for s**t themselves that they barely have time to sleep 6 hours a night, let alone take hours of time for their kids, all of the Ivy League educations in the country aren't going to make those kids straight-A students. This is a really great policy to follow through on if you want no teachers.

I get that this has to be part of a larger solution that includes tackling poverty (and I am more than happy to go along with it), but are you really saying that, in effect, we should be grateful that we have anyone teaching those kids at all, no matter how mediocre they are?  Are you that willing to compromise on teacher quality?