SWEDEN - September 14, 2014 - GUIDE and THREAD
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Heimdal
HenryH
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« Reply #175 on: April 18, 2014, 03:31:49 AM »

I have a few questions about the Sweden Democrats and the center-right.
First of all. How is the relationship between the SD and the Alliance? I know the SD isn’t a part of the government, but is the Alliance relying on the SD for support in the Riksdag?

Second of all. How radical is the SD perceived to be among the public? I have read somewhere that the SD used to contain a lot of very extreme groups, like BootBoys and Nazis. I assume that is mostly a thing of the past?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #176 on: April 18, 2014, 03:50:54 AM »

Is there a chance FI gains enough traction to reach the 4% threshold? It would be wonderful to see that happen. Cheesy
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Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese
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« Reply #177 on: April 18, 2014, 04:12:01 AM »

I have a few questions about the Sweden Democrats and the center-right.
First of all. How is the relationship between the SD and the Alliance? I know the SD isn’t a part of the government, but is the Alliance relying on the SD for support in the Riksdag?

Second of all. How radical is the SD perceived to be among the public? I have read somewhere that the SD used to contain a lot of very extreme groups, like BootBoys and Nazis. I assume that is mostly a thing of the past?

It's a complicated question. But since the Alliance passed a more generous immigration policy with support of the Greens, they have not been popular among SD supporters and the Alliance still refuse to have any organised cooperation with SD. As for parliamentary support, SD's policies fall closer to the right, and they thus end up supporting the government more often than not, but that is not due to any love between them and the government.     

As for your second question it depends which part of the public you ask. Some Hipster area in Stockholm, they're considered worse than Hitler himself, while in rural Skåne, they're not seen as especially controversial.
But they've gotten rid of their most openly racist policies and the Nazis, who've moved on to the National Democrats (ND) and The Swedes' Party (SvP)


Is there a chance FI gains enough traction to reach the 4% threshold? It would be wonderful to see that happen. Cheesy

A chance? Yes, as I wrote they've gained significantly.
Do I think it's likely? No, but I know several political nerd friends who think they will.   
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Lurker
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« Reply #178 on: April 18, 2014, 04:32:25 AM »

Is there a chance FI gains enough traction to reach the 4% threshold? It would be wonderful to see that happen. Cheesy

Another left-wing party is the last thing the Swedish left needs, at least in the long run (particularly with regards to the 4% treshold).
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Heimdal
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« Reply #179 on: April 18, 2014, 04:33:04 AM »

 As for your second question it depends which part of the public you ask. Some Hipster area in Stockholm, they're considered worse than Hitler himself, while in rural Skåne, they're not seen as especially controversial.
But they've gotten rid of their most openly racist policies and the Nazis, who've moved on to the National Democrats (ND) and The Swedes' Party (SvP)

That is very interesting. I guess that SD have moved toward the center (to some extent at least), which has enabled them to gain far more voters than other rightwing populist parties in Sweden. Their level of support as of today resembles FrP and Dansk Folkeparti.

Could you explain what sorts of parties the National Democrats and The Swedes Party are? Are they just a more radical/extreme version of the SD?
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Heimdal
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« Reply #180 on: April 18, 2014, 04:35:46 AM »

Is there a chance FI gains enough traction to reach the 4% threshold? It would be wonderful to see that happen. Cheesy

Another left-wing party is the last thing the Swedish left needs, at least in the long run (particularly with regards to the 4% treshold).

Indeed. Just look at the parliamentary election in Norway last fall. The socialist left (SV), the communists (RV) and the Green Party (MdG) got far fewer seats than their combined amount of votes would suggest. A new leftwing fringe party would most likely benefit the right far more than the left. 
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« Reply #181 on: April 18, 2014, 05:44:34 AM »

Is there a chance FI gains enough traction to reach the 4% threshold? It would be wonderful to see that happen. Cheesy

Another left-wing party is the last thing the Swedish left needs, at least in the long run (particularly with regards to the 4% treshold).

Indeed. Just look at the parliamentary election in Norway last fall. The socialist left (SV), the communists (RV) and the Green Party (MdG) got far fewer seats than their combined amount of votes would suggest. A new leftwing fringe party would most likely benefit the right far more than the left.  

Yep. One of the reasons why I think it will be difficult for the centre-left to gain a majority, in the 2017 Norwegian election. It's possible that 1/6, or more, of its vote will be wasted, if both MdG and SV barely fail to pass the treshold (not that MdG aligns with any "bloc", but I would suspect 90% of their voters are from the left (and yes, I'm very much getting ahead of myself here)).
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Gustaf
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« Reply #182 on: April 18, 2014, 06:50:46 AM »

 As for your second question it depends which part of the public you ask. Some Hipster area in Stockholm, they're considered worse than Hitler himself, while in rural Skåne, they're not seen as especially controversial.
But they've gotten rid of their most openly racist policies and the Nazis, who've moved on to the National Democrats (ND) and The Swedes' Party (SvP)

That is very interesting. I guess that SD have moved toward the center (to some extent at least), which has enabled them to gain far more voters than other rightwing populist parties in Sweden. Their level of support as of today resembles FrP and Dansk Folkeparti.

Could you explain what sorts of parties the National Democrats and The Swedes Party are? Are they just a more radical/extreme version of the SD?


The National Democrats are openly racist, they oppose race-mixing and wants Sweden to return to some idyllic nineteenth century farmer society. They're complete nutjobs.

However, they are nowhere near as scary as SvP which is a Nazi party. SvP used to be called National Socialist Front when I was in high school. They're exactly what that sounds like.

All of the non-SD far-right groups are very tiny fringe groups. And all totally insane. SD has done a good job of cleaning up their image, which is why they get so much support now.

The Swedish mainstream right is not at a place where they can cooperate with SD and if they did a large chunk of their support would join the left. I know plenty of activists for the government who would prefer a left-wing government over one with SD in it. Long term I guess we will go down the Danish/Norwegian route though.
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Enno von Loewenstern
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« Reply #183 on: April 18, 2014, 07:33:57 AM »

 As for your second question it depends which part of the public you ask. Some Hipster area in Stockholm, they're considered worse than Hitler himself, while in rural Skåne, they're not seen as especially controversial.
But they've gotten rid of their most openly racist policies and the Nazis, who've moved on to the National Democrats (ND) and The Swedes' Party (SvP)

That is very interesting. I guess that SD have moved toward the center (to some extent at least), which has enabled them to gain far more voters than other rightwing populist parties in Sweden. Their level of support as of today resembles FrP and Dansk Folkeparti.

Could you explain what sorts of parties the National Democrats and The Swedes Party are? Are they just a more radical/extreme version of the SD?


The National Democrats are openly racist, they oppose race-mixing and wants Sweden to return to some idyllic nineteenth century farmer society. They're complete nutjobs.

However, they are nowhere near as scary as SvP which is a Nazi party. SvP used to be called National Socialist Front when I was in high school. They're exactly what that sounds like.

All of the non-SD far-right groups are very tiny fringe groups. And all totally insane. SD has done a good job of cleaning up their image, which is why they get so much support now.

The Swedish mainstream right is not at a place where they can cooperate with SD and if they did a large chunk of their support would join the left. I know plenty of activists for the government who would prefer a left-wing government over one with SD in it. Long term I guess we will go down the Danish/Norwegian route though.

That is exactly what i am thinking. I would say in about/less 10 years from now the Alliance wants to cooperate with the SD. First, in the municipalities than on the federal level. These 10 years are also very good for SD to professionalize itself, to consolidate, to stabilize and to train cadres and also in order to grow through their status as opposition party. Mistakes of the center-right as the liberalization of immigration law, despite the excesses of the multicultural society will give the SD  boost. In a few years reaching the level of DPP, Finns and FrP.

However, the candidates of the SD for the European elections look atrocious. Why did they chose them, who are they and were there no better ones? They really do not look like i could vote for them.
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Heimdal
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« Reply #184 on: April 18, 2014, 08:54:05 AM »

 As for your second question it depends which part of the public you ask. Some Hipster area in Stockholm, they're considered worse than Hitler himself, while in rural Skåne, they're not seen as especially controversial.
But they've gotten rid of their most openly racist policies and the Nazis, who've moved on to the National Democrats (ND) and The Swedes' Party (SvP)

That is very interesting. I guess that SD have moved toward the center (to some extent at least), which has enabled them to gain far more voters than other rightwing populist parties in Sweden. Their level of support as of today resembles FrP and Dansk Folkeparti.

Could you explain what sorts of parties the National Democrats and The Swedes Party are? Are they just a more radical/extreme version of the SD?


The National Democrats are openly racist, they oppose race-mixing and wants Sweden to return to some idyllic nineteenth century farmer society. They're complete nutjobs.

However, they are nowhere near as scary as SvP which is a Nazi party. SvP used to be called National Socialist Front when I was in high school. They're exactly what that sounds like.

All of the non-SD far-right groups are very tiny fringe groups. And all totally insane. SD has done a good job of cleaning up their image, which is why they get so much support now.

The Swedish mainstream right is not at a place where they can cooperate with SD and if they did a large chunk of their support would join the left. I know plenty of activists for the government who would prefer a left-wing government over one with SD in it. Long term I guess we will go down the Danish/Norwegian route though.

That must be a blessing for the SD. I think a lot of Swedes would want to vote for a party that wants to restrict immigration to Sweden.  However, they don’t want to vote for a party whose members idolize the Third Reich. I think the SD leadership is happy that those people have disappeared.

In a way I am not surprised that SD and the Moderates are having a hard time finding together. My view of the SD is that the party is mostly about restricting immigration, and preserving different sorts of social services. Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears like tax cuts and privatization of public services isn’t a big priority for them. I don’t know that much about Swedish politics, but the Moderates at least used to campaign on tax cuts and privatization of public services. So immigration probably isn’t the only obstacle.
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Heimdal
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« Reply #185 on: April 18, 2014, 09:00:35 AM »

Is there a chance FI gains enough traction to reach the 4% threshold? It would be wonderful to see that happen. Cheesy

Another left-wing party is the last thing the Swedish left needs, at least in the long run (particularly with regards to the 4% treshold).

Indeed. Just look at the parliamentary election in Norway last fall. The socialist left (SV), the communists (RV) and the Green Party (MdG) got far fewer seats than their combined amount of votes would suggest. A new leftwing fringe party would most likely benefit the right far more than the left.  

Yep. One of the reasons why I think it will be difficult for the centre-left to gain a majority, in the 2017 Norwegian election. It's possible that 1/6, or more, of its vote will be wasted, if both MdG and SV barely fail to pass the treshold (not that MdG aligns with any "bloc", but I would suspect 90% of their voters are from the left (and yes, I'm very much getting ahead of myself here)).

I am quite sure that the center-left will be back in office by 2017. First of all because they don’t need to assemble the sort of alliance that they did in 2005. I think a minority government from the Labour party is the most likely outcome at this point. They will be able to cooperate with a lot of parties in Stortinget, from issue to issue. 

That is assuming that SV doesn’t rebound to the level of support they enjoyed in 2001-2005. But even if they do, they might be hesitant to join the Labor party in government. 
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windjammer
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« Reply #186 on: April 20, 2014, 03:07:27 PM »

Swedish Cheese, Gustaf, and the other swedish posters, for which party are you going to vote?
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The Lord Marbury
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« Reply #187 on: April 20, 2014, 03:20:34 PM »
« Edited: April 20, 2014, 03:26:38 PM by The Lord Marbury »

Swedish Cheese, Gustaf, and the other swedish posters, for which party are you going to vote?



And surprise was felt by no-one. Wink
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FredLindq
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« Reply #188 on: April 20, 2014, 04:04:32 PM »
« Edited: April 20, 2014, 04:10:07 PM by FredLindq »

http://www.moderat.se/rosta-i-valet-till-europaparlamentet-den-10-april-25-maj
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windjammer
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« Reply #189 on: April 20, 2014, 05:10:03 PM »

Swedish Cheese, Gustaf, and the other swedish posters, for which party are you going to vote?



And surprise was felt by no-one. Wink
You know, it wouldn't have surprised me if you would have voted for the most leftwing party!
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Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese
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« Reply #190 on: April 20, 2014, 05:29:48 PM »
« Edited: August 11, 2014, 12:06:37 PM by Swedish Cheese »

I'll vote for the Centre Party.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #191 on: April 21, 2014, 02:41:29 PM »

I am as of yet undecided. I know I won't vote SD, V or FP but anything else is still possible.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #192 on: April 21, 2014, 02:44:42 PM »

 As for your second question it depends which part of the public you ask. Some Hipster area in Stockholm, they're considered worse than Hitler himself, while in rural Skåne, they're not seen as especially controversial.
But they've gotten rid of their most openly racist policies and the Nazis, who've moved on to the National Democrats (ND) and The Swedes' Party (SvP)

That is very interesting. I guess that SD have moved toward the center (to some extent at least), which has enabled them to gain far more voters than other rightwing populist parties in Sweden. Their level of support as of today resembles FrP and Dansk Folkeparti.

Could you explain what sorts of parties the National Democrats and The Swedes Party are? Are they just a more radical/extreme version of the SD?


The National Democrats are openly racist, they oppose race-mixing and wants Sweden to return to some idyllic nineteenth century farmer society. They're complete nutjobs.

However, they are nowhere near as scary as SvP which is a Nazi party. SvP used to be called National Socialist Front when I was in high school. They're exactly what that sounds like.

All of the non-SD far-right groups are very tiny fringe groups. And all totally insane. SD has done a good job of cleaning up their image, which is why they get so much support now.

The Swedish mainstream right is not at a place where they can cooperate with SD and if they did a large chunk of their support would join the left. I know plenty of activists for the government who would prefer a left-wing government over one with SD in it. Long term I guess we will go down the Danish/Norwegian route though.

That must be a blessing for the SD. I think a lot of Swedes would want to vote for a party that wants to restrict immigration to Sweden.  However, they don’t want to vote for a party whose members idolize the Third Reich. I think the SD leadership is happy that those people have disappeared.

In a way I am not surprised that SD and the Moderates are having a hard time finding together. My view of the SD is that the party is mostly about restricting immigration, and preserving different sorts of social services. Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears like tax cuts and privatization of public services isn’t a big priority for them. I don’t know that much about Swedish politics, but the Moderates at least used to campaign on tax cuts and privatization of public services. So immigration probably isn’t the only obstacle.


Oh, it's no coincidence, SD has been purging these people for the last decade and moderating their image. They do have an MP who every now and then indicates support for Nazi groupings though.

M no longer stands for large tax-cuts or privatizations, but it is true SD is still to their left on economics. A large part of M's liberal, urban middle-class voters could never support SD though. Most young party activists in M are some shade of libertarian and those guys loathe SD every bit as much as the left does. Also, Reinfeldt seems to have something of a personal beef with them. He's gone out of his way to mark his distance to SD.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #193 on: April 21, 2014, 03:19:01 PM »

I am as of yet undecided. I know I won't vote SD, V or FP but anything else is still possible.

That's verging on gustaf.txt Tongue
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #194 on: April 21, 2014, 03:53:02 PM »

I am as of yet undecided. I know I won't vote SD, V or FP but anything else is still possible.

Why not the FP? Judging from wiki (I know, I know), they seem like your kind of thing.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #195 on: April 21, 2014, 04:10:33 PM »

The whole trick in Gustaf is his aversion of EU compared to his context.

Oh right, of course. Didn't think of that.

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Gustaf
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« Reply #196 on: April 21, 2014, 05:06:05 PM »

The whole trick in Gustaf is his aversion of EU compared to his context.

Oh right, of course. Didn't think of that.



Well, there is that, but actually even apart from that I'm not an FP person, really. They're our version of Liberal Democrats in the UK.

Essentially, you have to remember that the Swedish Conservatives these days really don't have any of the typical conservative party baggage (no homophobia, no racism, no nationalism, no love for defense, etc, etc).

Given that, I prefer them to the smug middle-class social engineering attitudes of FP. Essentially, if I vote government my natural choice would be M because the others have sort of become joke parties by now. But I could vote C or KD to support them getting above 4% threshold. I could also see a scenario where I vote opposition for either S or MP. But I can't see a scenario where FP would be the top choice.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #197 on: April 21, 2014, 05:06:29 PM »

I am as of yet undecided. I know I won't vote SD, V or FP but anything else is still possible.

That's verging on gustaf.txt Tongue

Haha, really?
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #198 on: April 21, 2014, 05:13:47 PM »

Quote
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Of course they have.

Edit: QUESTION - if C or KD fall out of parliament will that basically be the end for them?
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« Reply #199 on: April 22, 2014, 01:38:40 AM »
« Edited: April 22, 2014, 02:15:31 AM by Lurker »

Many centre-right voters will undoubtedly vote tactically to save Centerpartiet and KD (like Gustaf is considering) so it's pretty unlikely that they will fall under the treshold, IMO.

Centerpartiet has a very long history and have significant resources - very much doubt they'll disappear even if they got less than 4%. But, it might convince them that the "Thatcherism" stuff was not a very good idea (I get the impression that the current line of the party, which has practically placed them to the right of Moderaterna economically, is pretty unpopular amongst many in the party).
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