IDS2: The 'We're Not The Mideast' Act

[Donerail]

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Sponsor: SJoyce

[Associate Justice PiT]

     You better hope that you can get this passed and signed before I take office. Just saying.

[Donerail]

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Clause 17 of the Regional Bill of Rights states:

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This bill legally equates human personhood with that of a fetus in the earliest phases of pregnancy; this legislation would only allow the same penalties to be ascribed to a fetus in the later stages of gestation.

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The RU-486 pill is a medication that allows women to medically induce an abortion. This process is done earlier in pregnancy and is safer than surgery. The only effect of this initiative is to make abortion less safe, more costly, and unnecessarily restricted.

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An initiative that increases the number of late-term abortions by placing an unnecessary delay in front of minors who wish to seek an abortion, either by forcing them to go before regional authorities or forcing them to travel to another region - either way, it results in more later-term abortions and more health risks.

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Mandates a burdensome, unnecessary requirement upon abortion providers and forces them to provide women with false information.

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Jesus.

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A ridiculous, irrelevant, unused law.

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We should not use our dollars to introduce on a poor woman's decision on whether to terminate her pregnancy and select which benefits we provide because of how she chooses to exercise her rights.

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The penalties proscribed by these initiatives are detailed under a law that has been struck from the books.

[Supersonic]

Vehemently opposed, I'm pro life in most cases and I do not make an exception for the laws of the South. The IDS should stay true to its social conservative values. I'm also wary that repealing some of the, perhaps minor, acts of the Imperial Legislature will create momentum for an outright revamping of our regions abortion laws as is clearly evident here.

[Donerail]

Vehemently opposed, I'm pro life in most cases and I do not make an exception for the laws of the South. The IDS should stay true to its social conservative values. I'm also wary that repealing some of the, perhaps minor, acts of the Imperial Legislature will create momentum for an outright revamping of our regions abortion laws as is clearly evident here.

Social conservative values? The Supreme Court ruled spousal notification requirements unconstitutional in 1976. That's a good deal more reactionary than conservative.

That said, an amendment to make it more palatable:

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[Associate Justice PiT]

     That amendment more or less brings it into line with what I proposed.

[Supersonic]

I only support the repeal of the following bills:
Abortion Pill II (RU-486) Initiative
Pro-Informed Choice Initiative
Community Choice Initiative
Mother's Health Abortion Initiative
Safe Abortion Initiative

I have read through these bills, and I cannot support their repeal.

Vehemently opposed, I'm pro life in most cases and I do not make an exception for the laws of the South. The IDS should stay true to its social conservative values. I'm also wary that repealing some of the, perhaps minor, acts of the Imperial Legislature will create momentum for an outright revamping of our regions abortion laws as is clearly evident here.

Social conservative values? The Supreme Court ruled spousal notification requirements unconstitutional in 1976. That's a good deal more reactionary than conservative.

That said, an amendment to make it more palatable:

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While I approve of the amended version, I cannot vote in favour of a bill repeals the South's pro-life laws. This is one red line that I'm afraid I cannot cross.

[Donerail]

Sanchez? Enderman? Any thoughts?

[Dereich]

I have a thought: I'm a pro-life person myself and would prefer to see none of this go through. However, I've always felt that the Emperor shouldn't stubbornly resist what seems to be a decent public consensus. I'd say however, that some of those bills being repealed just seem like common sense, working to improve the process and make it generally safer (while also possibly reducing the number of abortions) especially the Mother's Health Abortion Initiative and the Safe Abortion Initiative. As long as I'm still Emperor I don't think I could sign a bill which repealed those initiatives.

[Donerail]

I have a thought: I'm a pro-life person myself and would prefer to see none of this go through. However, I've always felt that the Emperor shouldn't stubbornly resist what seems to be a decent public consensus. I'd say however, that some of those bills being repealed just seem like common sense, working to improve the process and make it generally safer (while also possibly reducing the number of abortions) especially the Mother's Health Abortion Initiative and the Safe Abortion Initiative. As long as I'm still Emperor I don't think I could sign a bill which repealed those initiatives.

Those two initiatives were passed a while back, and we repealed their enforcement sections without repealing the rest of the law. Those two are really just housekeeping.

[Dereich]

I have a thought: I'm a pro-life person myself and would prefer to see none of this go through. However, I've always felt that the Emperor shouldn't stubbornly resist what seems to be a decent public consensus. I'd say however, that some of those bills being repealed just seem like common sense, working to improve the process and make it generally safer (while also possibly reducing the number of abortions) especially the Mother's Health Abortion Initiative and the Safe Abortion Initiative. As long as I'm still Emperor I don't think I could sign a bill which repealed those initiatives.

Those two initiatives were passed a while back, and we repealed their enforcement sections without repealing the rest of the law. Those two are really just housekeeping.

Even so, I still think the principles behind them are ones the IDS should stand for.

[Supersonic]

Sanchez? Enderman? Any thoughts?

Yes, lets hear some other views.

I have a thought: I'm a pro-life person myself and would prefer to see none of this go through. However, I've always felt that the Emperor shouldn't stubbornly resist what seems to be a decent public consensus. I'd say however, that some of those bills being repealed just seem like common sense, working to improve the process and make it generally safer (while also possibly reducing the number of abortions) especially the Mother's Health Abortion Initiative and the Safe Abortion Initiative. As long as I'm still Emperor I don't think I could sign a bill which repealed those initiatives.

Those two initiatives were passed a while back, and we repealed their enforcement sections without repealing the rest of the law. Those two are really just housekeeping.

Even so, I still think the principles behind them are ones the IDS should stand for.

I concur.

[Enderman]

I, personally, cannot support this. Like Supersonic said, this is one line that I cannot cross.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I understand that requiring parental or spousal consent could only work to reduce the number of abortions, but how do they follow from a pro-life philosophy? If we suppose that a fetus should be accorded the same right to life as someone who has already been born, then surely having the assent of a second person does not make it permissible to revoke that right and terminate that life.

     This is an issue that I raised in my campaign. Parental and spousal consent laws are not ideas that really make sense in the pro-life paradigm, but rather seem to rise from an attempt to reduce the incidence of abortion in altogether ad hoc fashion. I think that this odd slapdash of pure expediency would not tend to cast the best light on what is fundamentally a right-wing movement.

[Donerail]

Those two initiatives were passed a while back, and we repealed their enforcement sections without repealing the rest of the law. Those two are really just housekeeping.

Even so, I still think the principles behind them are ones the IDS should stand for.

If it'll help passage of the bill, I'll strike Mother's Health/Safe Abortion - I just don't see the pros of keeping them on the books, or what they're doing besides cluttering up the statutes. It doesn't seem like a grand moral stance - 'we oppose abortions that pose a threat to the mother's health' (though it does seems inherently contradictory to support that initiative while also supporting the RU-486 ban). Does repealing those two bother anyone else (Small L/Sanchez/PiT?)

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I didn't include those in my original list of bills to repeal, so it doesn't bother me. I stayed away from laws that sounded noncontroversial, even if they were probably useless. Stuff like that makes great referendum fodder if one is so inclined.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I can't see myself supporting any of these repeals. I'll have a more detailed response later in the afternoon.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I'll have a more detailed response later in the afternoon.

     Glad to hear it. I've been trying to foment debate and generate interest here, so it looks like it is succeeding.

[Supersonic]

I move for a vote.

Objections?

[Donerail]

It has been so moved - 24 hours for objections to a final vote (I know that Sanchez had something he wanted to say).

[Supersonic]

Ah indeed, I didn't notice that. I'll await Sanchez' further comments.

[Donerail]

For what it's worth, I would appreciate answers to these.

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[Supersonic]

Yes, I read SJoyce's article, and I thank him for a thoughtful and well detailed contribution to the debate. Here's my position, I'm pro life and I don't want to see increasingly liberalised abortion laws in the South. My priority is to ensure that there as few abortions conducted in our region as possible and that is the belief of many of our socially conservative citizens. Personally, I don't believe a wholesale alteration of our laws in one bill is the best way to go about changing our abortion laws. Nevertheless, I would be open to a repeal of the Spousal Consent Initiative and I am leaning towards partial revisions to the Pro-Informed Choice Initiative. I am not a fan of opposing legislation straight from the outset, yet this is a difficult topic for me. Hopefully we can work out some form of common sense solution with the contribution of other legislators.
 

[Enderman]

I second Small L, I move for a final vote also

[Donerail]

We have a 24-hour objection period that began when Small L motioned for a final vote last night.