Spain leaving the recession behind ?
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  Spain leaving the recession behind ?
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Tender Branson
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« on: January 04, 2014, 11:05:36 AM »

Spain’s unemployment sees one of the sharpest drops on record

The number of unemployed in Spain dropped by a record number in December making up the second biggest monthly drop in 14 years and bringing hope to the 4.7 million people still without a job in the EU’s fourth-largest economy.

The number of people registered as unemployed fell by 107,570 in December, according to figures in the Friday’s Labour Ministry report published on Friday.

The jobless queue shrank by 147,385 people in the whole of 2013. The Ministry said it was the biggest December drop on record, and the second biggest of any month on record, according to the Wall Street Journal.

http://rt.com/business/spain-crisis-unemployment-drop-150

Spain Car Registrations Show First Annual Growth Since 2010

MADRID--Spain's new car registrations in 2013 showed their first overall increase for three years, data released Thursday showed, as a government subsidy for households helped offset a decline in sales to companies.

In a press release, Spanish car manufacturer association Anfac said car registrations--a proxy for sales--grew 3.3% in 2013. A government program offering consumers a rebate if they hand in an old car when purchasing a new one bolstered sales to households, Anfac said. Car sales to individuals increased 36% in December compared with the same month in 2012 and rose 18% overall in 2013 compared with the same period a year earlier. Spain's government increased the sales tax in September 2012, depressing auto sales late in that year.

http://online.wsj.com/article/DN-CO-20140102-003484.html
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 02:49:55 PM »
« Edited: January 04, 2014, 02:52:29 PM by Snowstalker »

Cautiously optimistic; hopefully Spain can continue its recovery from near-rock bottom, even if it means that the PP might actually win the next election. Of course, given the horrific numbers Spain still has (especially in regards to youth unemployment), it's no cause for celebration yet.

Hopefully this also means that the Catalonians end their silly tantrum.
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Velasco
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 02:57:33 PM »

Sadly, that news look more optimistic than reality. The 4.7 million of unemployed, according to the Spain's Ministry of Employment, rise to 5.9 million in the 3rd quarter of 2013 according to INE (National Institute of Statistics).

http://www.ine.es/prensa/epa_tabla.htm

INE makes quarterly surveys of the labour market which are more accurate than Ministry's figures, because many people threw the towel and don't care to register in employment offices. Also, contributors to Social Security increased in December about 64,000 with regard to November. However, contributors diminished about 85,000 in the last 12 months. New employment contracts are temporary in a huge extent; indefinite (stable) contracts fell by 20% in the last year. The general impression is that Spain's economy touched the bottom, but unemployment will continue in astronomic levels (above 20%) for the years to come.

There are too many clouds in the sky, even if 'recession' is technically over:

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http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/01/02/inenglish/1388664336_295595.html?rel=rosEP
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Franknburger
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 04:20:28 PM »

Doesn't sound too good yet...
 
It seems Spain (and especially Spain's young generation) is left with hardly another choice than to re-invent itself. At least, Spain has never lacked creativity - to the opposite, it has nursed some of the finest painters and artists the world has ever seen. Artistry ties into design, and that can be a competitive edge, as Steve Jobs (and others) have demonstrated.
Spain furthermore has a unique geographical and historical position at the crossroads of occident, orient, and the New World. In the 17th century, that potential was drowned by domestic corruption and English pirates, but at least the latter shouldn't be an issue anymore in the 21st century.

I hope this doesn't sound cynic (it is meant as encouragement by someone from Germany's "no future" generation): A crisis (and unemployment) is an opportunity to try out something new, and Spain has the potential to succeed in it.

[Of course, first raising sales tax and than essentially disbursing that raise back to people buying new cars (but not those buying more energy-efficient fridges, water-saving devices, or trying out new forms of multigenerational housing) isn't really strengthening innovation, it is just supporting one established industry at the expense of many others. And, apparently, the current Spanish government is rather trying to turn the clock back than to stimulate new ideas. One reason more to unleash creativity...]
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Velasco
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 04:57:58 PM »

I hope this doesn't sound cynic (it is meant as encouragement by someone from Germany's "no future" generation): A crisis (and unemployment) is an opportunity to try out something new, and Spain has the potential to succeed in it.

It doesn't sound cynical at all. I'm on the same opinion in what regards reinvention and encouraging creativity to find a way out. Also, Spain needs to find in what sectors it can be competitive and to create products with added value (creativity, of course). It's really disheartening to see how the government, mainly for ideological reasons, withdraws the funds to stimulate clean energies (the potential in solar and wind power is enormous) or increases brutally VAT taxes on films and books, among many other things... We will never manage to be competitive for the simple route of reducing wages. I believe that there's potential in the society; the problem is that I don't see it in the political class (government and opposition).
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StateBoiler
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 02:10:51 PM »
« Edited: January 10, 2014, 02:13:01 PM by StateBoiler »

No.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Edward-Hugh/103632406357698

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StateBoiler
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 02:19:39 PM »

Doesn't sound too good yet...
 
It seems Spain (and especially Spain's young generation) is left with hardly another choice than to re-invent itself.

or the young generation are choosing to emigrate, to places like Germany for instance, which leads to this (same source, the writer lives in Barcelona):

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The main reading which is being made of the first step is the following one:
 
"The new regime breaks the link between pension increases and inflation, in a move that seeks to balance Spain’s deficit-stricken social security system. "
 
My feeling is that this assessment does not go far enough. There is no doubt that the link is being cut, but that the reform in fact does rather more than this. As Tobias says, pensions can only now rise above 0.25% annually if the social security fund is in surplus, something which is very unlikely to be the case from now on. So the reform goes beyond simple inflation de-linking, and cuts completely the tie between pension payments and government finance. Basically it gets the government completely out of the middle. The key point to note here is the principle of sustainability, which will already be applied as of tomorrow. Only as much can go out in payments as comes in in contributions, and that is that. This is the gist of the philosophy behind the experts' committee report. The pensions system now involves an implicit contract between those who contribute and those who receive.
 
The implications of this are only partly reflected in the new law, which is a sort of "work in progress" and seems to represent a kind of "get them in the mood" approach to the issue. The link between government guarantee and actual pension is cut, but the implications of this are not really being fully explained yet. Let them used to the idea that pensions won't rise, and then you can let them know they may actually fall, not only in real terms but also in nominal ones would be how I would describe the situation. Frankly I think Fatima Bañez was being rather stupid in saying "pensions will never go down", because she may even have difficulty living up to this next year, but then she is a politician and this is what politicians seem to do - forget this year what they were saying last year, I mean. But then, I have never been able to understand much about politics.
 
As far as I can see, if Spain gets even slight deflation in 2014 then the even the 0,25% rise will become impossible to comply with without digging even deeper into the Reserve Fund. But the government has already put its hand into the fund to the tune of 18 billion euros in 2012 and 2013 (a number which rises to 23 billion if you count the money from the mutual funds). In 2013 the social security system received around 15.5 billion from the reserve, up considerably over the 6.5 billion it received in 2012. This number is therefore a minimum estimate of the amount of money which will be needed in 2014, given that the number of pensioners and the average pension will rise while the number of contributors probably won't to any significant degree and the average contribution will fall slightly.
 
So we can say the social security system will probably need AT LEAST 15 billion more from the fund next year, a reality which makes the payment of some 263 million euros extra to comply with the 0.25% increase seem ridiculous. The pension system is not on a sustainable path and something still needs to be done.
 
The idea of the Fund (as envisioned by the experts' committee) is to provide cyclical support to the pension system by accumulating resources in the good years and spending them in the bad ones. If they just run it down it will become useless for the purpose for which it exists (like with the bank deposit guarantee fund which cannot guarantee any deposits since the money has mainly been spent) so they can't go on using it much longer. The fund now stands at just under 24 billion euros. Maybe they will be able to get away with continuing to do subsidise pensions in 2015 as it is an election year, but then that will be that I think, and the first act of the new government will have to be to CUT pensions.

What the new law does mean is that the government can no longer seek recourse in the general government deficit for maintaining the value of pensions. That is the link that has now been cut. They will have enough problems sustaining health spending from public revenue, but then that's a problem between the autonomous community governments and their voters, and the central government are again out of the middle.
 
I have written a chapter on this for my book (out in March). In a way the pensions thing forms part of an interactive triad which includes the new growth paradigm (what Larry Summers calls secular stagnation, which is very demographically related) and the emigration of young people. At the moment young people are being forced out of the country by lack of jobs, but mounting fiscal pressure to support the elderly will soon add to the flow. Spain seems to have invented it's own kind of perpetual motion wind-yourself-down machine
 
In fact the situation on the pensions front has deteriorated even since the initial experts' report. I think the main change which has occurred is that the INE population estimates have changed. The Committee based their analysis on data from the long term population forecast provided by the INE. This assumed net positive immigration into Spain of 120,000 a year between now and 2060. This softened the looming population drop, and made it possibly more plausible to say that pensions wouldn't have to be reduced. But the latest short term forecast (covering the decade 2013 to 2023) have net NEGATIVE migration of between 200,000 and 300,000 a year. This seems much more plausible, is basically what the IMF is on about when it asks for a 10% internal devaluation to try and generate more work, and essentially changes everything about pensions. If not, bye, bye, Spain in every sense.
 
What I like least about what is happening at the moment in Spain is the way in which the political class as a whole are completely unable to come clean with the population about what it happening. Whether this is simply because they are stupid and don't themselves understand or whether there is some other reason I couldn't tell you.[/quote]
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Velasco
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 04:24:28 PM »

Doesn't sound too good yet...
 
It seems Spain (and especially Spain's young generation) is left with hardly another choice than to re-invent itself.

or the young generation are choosing to emigrate, to places like Germany for instance, which leads to this (same source, the writer lives in Barcelona):

This and foreign immigrants leaving Spain. Poverty and unemployment have struck the latter heavily. Many worked in ruined sectors like construction or in the informal economy.

Btw, I met a couple of Portuguese and a Spaniard in Berlin and they told me it's not that easy to get a job. The Spaniard guy is from Madrid and previously he was studying German language in the country for two years. He says he works too much and earns very little money. If you are very qualified (e.g. engineer) things are much more smooth. Recently, it surfaced in the media the case of a group of 124 Spaniards whom went to Leipzig cheated by a fake job offer. They were hosted in a hut or factory just outside the city and left alone there. The German government had to intervene and I believe it promised them jobs.
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