Has political correctness gone too far (especially during the winter season)?

[The Arizonan]

I just want to put a huge bronze cross on my barracks room door just to see what happens.

[ElectionsGuy]

The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like "penmanship".

Absolute most ridiculous strawman in the history of the Atlas Forum. If you were joking, very nice, because I literally LOLed for about 20 seconds at the sheer absurdity of it.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/49446-new-washington-state-law-bans-words-penmanship-freshman-fisherman-as-sexist/

I'm not joking.

Meh, whatever. Some fool in Washington goes overboard with his word list on an otherwise OK bill, and you spin it to "those loony liberals are banning the word "penmanship" for being sexist!!!!"

I was spinning it? lol This thread is about political correctness, right?

[7,052,770]

The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like "penmanship".

Absolute most ridiculous strawman in the history of the Atlas Forum. If you were joking, very nice, because I literally LOLed for about 20 seconds at the sheer absurdity of it.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/49446-new-washington-state-law-bans-words-penmanship-freshman-fisherman-as-sexist/

I'm not joking.

Meh, whatever. Some fool in Washington goes overboard with his word list on an otherwise OK bill, and you spin it to "those loony liberals are banning the word "penmanship" for being sexist!!!!"

I was spinning it? lol This thread is about political correctness, right?

<Not sure if srs>  Yes, you listed "The right for trying to censor 'immorality' as they call it," and
 "The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like 'penmanship'," as your examples of how political correctness has gone amok.

By listing them as your two examples, you implied that they were a big deal and around equal in stature.  I'll grant that the right does often try to enforce its moral code on the country, and that that is a nationwide thing, but it's very obviously absurd to suggest that censoring the word "penmanship" is some kind of general characteristic of liberals.  It happened once in one state, buried inside a non-ridiculous bill.  Virtually no liberal in the entire country supports it. It's textbook, indisputable spin on your part to imply otherwise.

[TJ in Oregon]

The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like "penmanship".

Absolute most ridiculous strawman in the history of the Atlas Forum. If you were joking, very nice, because I literally LOLed for about 20 seconds at the sheer absurdity of it.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/49446-new-washington-state-law-bans-words-penmanship-freshman-fisherman-as-sexist/

I'm not joking.

Meh, whatever. Some fool in Washington goes overboard with his word list on an otherwise OK bill, and you spin it to "those loony liberals are banning the word "penmanship" for being sexist!!!!"

I was spinning it? lol This thread is about political correctness, right?

<Not sure if srs>  Yes, you listed "The right for trying to censor 'immorality' as they call it," and
 "The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like 'penmanship'," as your examples of how political correctness has gone amok.

By listing them as your two examples, you implied that they were a big deal and around equal in stature.  I'll grant that the right does often try to enforce its moral code on the country, and that that is a nationwide thing, but it's very obviously absurd to suggest that censoring the word "penmanship" is some kind of general characteristic of liberals.  It happened once in one state, buried inside a non-ridiculous bill.  Virtually no liberal in the entire country supports it. It's textbook, indisputable spin on your part to imply otherwise.

Election Guy, clearly you weren't politically correct enough in your characterization of political correctness

[Link]

The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like "penmanship".

Absolute most ridiculous strawman in the history of the Atlas Forum. If you were joking, very nice, because I literally LOLed for about 20 seconds at the sheer absurdity of it.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/49446-new-washington-state-law-bans-words-penmanship-freshman-fisherman-as-sexist/

I'm not joking.

Meh, whatever. Some fool in Washington goes overboard with his word list on an otherwise OK bill, and you spin it to "those loony liberals are banning the word "penmanship" for being sexist!!!!"

I was spinning it? lol This thread is about political correctness, right?

<Not sure if srs>  Yes, you listed "The right for trying to censor 'immorality' as they call it," and
 "The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like 'penmanship'," as your examples of how political correctness has gone amok.

By listing them as your two examples, you implied that they were a big deal and around equal in stature.  I'll grant that the right does often try to enforce its moral code on the country, and that that is a nationwide thing, but it's very obviously absurd to suggest that censoring the word "penmanship" is some kind of general characteristic of liberals.  It happened once in one state, buried inside a non-ridiculous bill.  Virtually no liberal in the entire country supports it. It's textbook, indisputable spin on your part to imply otherwise.

This.

I was going to say something but going around and correcting the baseless hyperbole of trolls just get's tiring.

I wonder how often these right wingers use the word "penmanship"?  If this is the example of the horrors of liberalism I guess we can consider liberalism pretty benign.

Against my better nature I clicked on the link to the "source."  The guy that runs the site goes by the name "bubba."   So as usual another great source.

[Deus Naturae]

The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like "penmanship".

Absolute most ridiculous strawman in the history of the Atlas Forum. If you were joking, very nice, because I literally LOLed for about 20 seconds at the sheer absurdity of it.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/49446-new-washington-state-law-bans-words-penmanship-freshman-fisherman-as-sexist/

I'm not joking.

Meh, whatever. Some fool in Washington goes overboard with his word list on an otherwise OK bill, and you spin it to "those loony liberals are banning the word "penmanship" for being sexist!!!!"

I was spinning it? lol This thread is about political correctness, right?

<Not sure if srs>  Yes, you listed "The right for trying to censor 'immorality' as they call it," and
 "The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like 'penmanship'," as your examples of how political correctness has gone amok.

By listing them as your two examples, you implied that they were a big deal and around equal in stature.  I'll grant that the right does often try to enforce its moral code on the country, and that that is a nationwide thing, but it's very obviously absurd to suggest that censoring the word "penmanship" is some kind of general characteristic of liberals.  It happened once in one state, buried inside a non-ridiculous bill.  Virtually no liberal in the entire country supports it. It's textbook, indisputable spin on your part to imply otherwise.

This.

I was going to say something but going around and correcting the baseless hyperbole of trolls just get's tiring.

I wonder how often these right wingers use the word "penmanship"?  If this is the example of the horrors of liberalism I guess we can consider liberalism pretty benign.

Against my better nature I clicked on the link to the "source."  The guy that runs the site goes by the name "bubba."   So as usual another great source.

So, the name "bubba" isn't politically correct either? It's a wonder you liberals can even speak...

[Link]

So, the name "bubba" isn't politically correct either? It's a wonder you liberals can even speak...

Why are you using "politically correct" as an adjective to describe everything from apples to zebras?  Is this a new annoying libertarian thing?

[Deus Naturae]

So, the name "bubba" isn't politically correct either? It's a wonder you liberals can even speak...

Why are you using "politically correct" as an adjective to describe everything from apples to zebras?  Is this a new annoying libertarian thing?

The better question is what do you have against the name bubba?

[Link]

So, the name "bubba" isn't politically correct either? It's a wonder you liberals can even speak...

Why are you using "politically correct" as an adjective to describe everything from apples to zebras?  Is this a new annoying libertarian thing?

The better question is what do you have against the name bubba?

Who said I had anything against the name "bubba"?  What I have a problem with is people on the internet making sweeping erroneous proclamations about large swaths of the country and using as their only "proof" some random guy on the internet named "bubba."

[7,052,770]

So, the name "bubba" isn't politically correct either? It's a wonder you liberals can even speak...

Why are you using "politically correct" as an adjective to describe everything from apples to zebras?  Is this a new annoying libertarian thing?

The better question is what do you have against the name bubba?

If his parents actually named him Bubba, then there's nothing wrong with him going by that (obviously).  However, most people who go by Bubba made up that nickname for themselves because they think it makes them sound cool/gives them more redneck cred.

Considering how you linked to some ridiculous hack site (seriously, check out the links on the front page -- you'd almost think it was a spoof) to some dickwaving article that takes one insignificant example from one incident in one state to make a sweeping generalization about how dumb liberals are, I think it's safe to say the Bubba in question is most likely the latter variety.

[ElectionsGuy]

The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like "penmanship".

Absolute most ridiculous strawman in the history of the Atlas Forum. If you were joking, very nice, because I literally LOLed for about 20 seconds at the sheer absurdity of it.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/49446-new-washington-state-law-bans-words-penmanship-freshman-fisherman-as-sexist/

I'm not joking.

Meh, whatever. Some fool in Washington goes overboard with his word list on an otherwise OK bill, and you spin it to "those loony liberals are banning the word "penmanship" for being sexist!!!!"

I was spinning it? lol This thread is about political correctness, right?

<Not sure if srs>  Yes, you listed "The right for trying to censor 'immorality' as they call it," and
 "The left trying censor religious speech or stupid words like 'penmanship'," as your examples of how political correctness has gone amok.

By listing them as your two examples, you implied that they were a big deal and around equal in stature.  I'll grant that the right does often try to enforce its moral code on the country, and that that is a nationwide thing, but it's very obviously absurd to suggest that censoring the word "penmanship" is some kind of general characteristic of liberals.  It happened once in one state, buried inside a non-ridiculous bill.  Virtually no liberal in the entire country supports it. It's textbook, indisputable spin on your part to imply otherwise.

I'm not at all implying that liberals are "loony" or anything. But there's been multiple examples of things like this, with word bans, and censoring certain objects as well, because they might be deemed racist or sexist. This is just one of them. You or many other liberals may not support it, but its what they've done. You've made way too big a deal of one little thing I said. Lets just be done with this now argument that we've started.

I remind myself yet again why I avoid this board.

[The Arizonan]

Did you guys hear about how the Christmas Parade in Tulsa, OK was renamed the "Holiday Parade"? What kind of bullsh**t is that?

And there have been people trying to get Maddox's 'The Best Page in the Universe' shutdown. At some places, I can't view the website because of Websense. Apparently, millions of porn sites pose little threat compared to some guy posting his opinions on his website.

[Aliens]

They probably believe that they're doing the right thing, but in reality they're just pushing their own personal agenda upon everyone else.

[Bacon King]

I'd like to point out that the Washington state law doesn't force anybody to use gender neutral terms, and it doesn't ban words like penmanship. The posted link is a gratuitous overreaction bordering on absurd hyperbole.

In WA it's the law for statute to be gender neutral unless a specification of gender is intended. Which makes sense even if you aren't a feminist, because laws are supposed to be exact and specific. However, this literally means that it'd potentially be a legally valid argument, for example, for a female police officer to claim that "I don't have to follow [law] because it only refers to policemen, it specifies gender so legally it's only intended to apply to men!" Even when changing words where that isn't so much a concern, though, literally the only thing it changes is the word something is referred to in the state's laws. When you make a big deal about this you really make a big deal about nothing much at all.

[Link]

I'm not at all implying that liberals are "loony" or anything. But...

Lol.  So you are calling them "loony."

But there's been multiple examples of things like this, with word bans, and censoring certain objects as well, because they might be deemed racist or sexist.

So you're saying there have been a multitude of examples covered by reputable sources in the legitimate press but "Bubba's" website was used as the sole source for this little rant because...



My advice to you is to get a job.  Every large corporation or government entity I've ever worked at has controlled language in the work place for various reasons that most of the time have nothing to do with "political correctness."  If you are just now learning about this practice from "Bubba" of all people you need to start working on your career.

And as was stated it makes sense to remove gender from legal documents unless the law specifically pertains to one gender to avoid having to deal with @$$hole lawyers who will try and get their female clients off because a law only refers to "men."  This whole situation reminds me of the right wing idiots that applauded Herman Cain's "three page bills."  I mean how much of a moron do you have to be to not realize why bills are so long and complicated.  You have to nail down every loophole or else the lawyers and trolls come out of the woodwork.

And I really wonder how little is going on in someone's life who who notices let alone cares an obscure state law's wording was changed to eliminate the word penmanship.  Are Blue and Yellow avatars using the word "penmanship" a lot?  If this is the worst thing that has happened to you this month then... you must be white, male, and fairly well off.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Lief, are you seriously going to argue that some lawyer would argue that penmanship doesn't cover a woman's pencraft?  (Of the various alternatives to penmanship, I like pencraft best as it is only two syllables and I have a fondness for the Anglo-Saxon -craft suffix.)

[PJ]

Political correctness has to be the least important political issue of the 21st century.

[Redalgo]

The main point is not the legal principle of the act, but rather one's ability not to care. If you're not Christian and you see a little nativity scene in front of the fire house as you're driving through on your way to a "Holiday" bash in a larger city, don't call the ACLU. While you might be right in the general principle of government impartiality towards religion, the fact that you're getting to make a huge ruckus about something like that and let it distract you from drinking bourbon mixed with egg nog while your friends sing holiday songs around the fire wearing awful sweaters is more an indictment of your character than that of the head of the fire precinct.

While I think you have a good point, such occurrences do erode solidarity. I for example would be more likely to identify as a foreigner in my own community and start to think more in terms of "I live in a town of, by, and for people who value Christians more than non-Christians." That is ultimately harmful to social cohesion. It undermines ones willingness to be loyal or patriotic, given the perception of being somewhat betrayed by government if not the public in general for often responding to criticisms of things like nativity scenes funded by and/or placed on premises of the government in vitriolic ways.

On the other hand, this easily cuts the other way as well when people like me try to promote ways of communicating that seem more righteous. There is a struggle underway for influence over the social mores people tend to conform with. A person with beliefs like mine won't really be happy until society gets reshaped in a way that, as an unintentional side-effect, would be very unsatisfactory to most people who want to settle for current or more traditional ways of life. The fact that so many people are concerned that "political correctness" may be going too far at least in part reflects the reality that old ways are succumbing to others. Not all of these changes are positive of course, and there are instances where I think people have really gone "too far," but as with many matters the judgements we make are so very subjective in quality.

. . . Every large corporation or government entity I've ever worked at has controlled language in the work place for various reasons that most of the time have nothing to do with "political correctness."

To expand on that line of thought, large corporations tend to be led in an authoritarian fashion and have illiberal cultures on account of their fixation on profit. Government entities meanwhile cannot tend to their assigned tasks without funding, and anything that could call that funding into question or threaten career- or legacy-focused leaders could easily provide motive to control the conduct of their workers. In a lot of ways we are routinely pressured to set aside our rights in exchange for opportunities to have work, enjoy forms of leisure, and - more fundamentally - survive.

[Link]

. . . Every large corporation or government entity I've ever worked at has controlled language in the work place for various reasons that most of the time have nothing to do with "political correctness."

To expand on that line of thought, large corporations tend to be led in an authoritarian fashion and have illiberal cultures on account of their fixation on profit. Government entities meanwhile cannot tend to their assigned tasks without funding, and anything that could call that funding into question or threaten career- or legacy-focused leaders could easily provide motive to control the conduct of their workers. In a lot of ways we are routinely pressured to set aside our rights in exchange for opportunities to have work, enjoy forms of leisure, and - more fundamentally - survive.

Actually most of the time it is far more mundane than that.  Often there is a health and safety component.  They want everyone on the same page to minimize accidents and cock ups.  I mean we all remember the $300+ million Mars probe that was slammed into the planet simply because one set of engineers was using Imperial measurements and another was using metric.  Of course if a directive came down banning the use of imperial units within NASA some screwball libertarian/tea party/conservative BS website run by a "bubba" would claim it is some new world order plot by the UN to take over 'Murica.

I mean it is just time to cut the drama.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco990930.html

Oh, no!  Politically correct spaceships are coming soon!!!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The preceding post has been sent to the deluge.  Seldom have I seen such a leap of illogical connection between two topics as what you have just achieved here.

[Link]

The preceding post has been sent to the deluge.  Seldom have I seen such a leap of illogical connection between two topics as what you have just achieved here.

I don't know what to tell you.  Language is for communication.  And within large diverse organizations particularly those that interface with the broader public there are times when an elevated degree of consistency and formality are demanded.

Also you have to understand within the bowels of such organizations there are tons of middle managers that must have endless meetings and put forth proposals whether they are really necessary or not.  Some of the language proposals come from such a process.  It's not "political correctness" as such but just another symptom of US private and public sector organizations filled with people who must appear to be doing something and instead of coming up with something useful just take something that was useful and just bastardize it into numerous other pointless iterations.

[Sol]

IMO, people who complain about political correctness usually strawman their opponents with the "herstory of womyn" type argument, which really doesn't represent anything but a small minority of political correctness advocates.

Really though, what political correctness is really about is respect. Complaining about, say, referring to a trans* person with the pronoun of the gender they identify with instead of the pronoun of their biological sex is disrespectful and impolite. Team names like the Washington Red****s are disrespectful and impolite. Using the term "illegal" instead of undocumented immigrant is disrespectful and impolite. There is, of course, a sliding scale of rudeness (with the first two being more offensive than the 3rd) but all of them are about respecting different people.

[The Arizonan]

I don't think that the Washington Redskins should change their name and I think that illegal immigrants should still be called illegal immigrants.

[Goldwater]

IMO, people who complain about political correctness usually strawman their opponents with the "herstory of womyn" type argument, which really doesn't represent anything but a small minority of political correctness advocates.

Really though, what political correctness is really about is respect. Complaining about, say, referring to a trans* person with the pronoun of the gender they identify with instead of the pronoun of their biological sex is disrespectful and impolite. Team names like the Washington Red****s are disrespectful and impolite. Using the term "illegal" instead of undocumented immigrant is disrespectful and impolite. There is, of course, a sliding scale of rudeness (with the first two being more offensive than the 3rd) but all of them are about respecting different people.

How is that disrespectful and impolite? I mean, they immigrated illegally, so that's the most logical thing to call them. I can understand the first two, this one is just seems ridiculous and oversensitive.

[The Arizonan]

I agree with Senator Goldwater.

My mother, my aunt, and my cousin all immigrated to this country from the Philippines legally, why can't they?