What should be the maximum permitted sentence for a 14-year-old offender?

[TDAS04]

The poll is asking what the law should permit as the maximum sentence for the most serious crimes committed at the age of 14.  For example, if you vote option 4, you're saying that a person should not be locked up for more than 40 years for any crime(s) committed by that person before his or her 15th birthday.

 

[TNF]

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

[courts]

death

[Supersonic]

Maybe 20 years. I guess it depends on the crime..

[TDAS04]

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

death

Both of these are absurd.  I voted 30 years, and only for the most horrific crimes.  It's a shame that the justice system tends to force a choice between these outrageous extremes.  

If a 14-year-old maliciously murders six at his school, it's OK if he suffers past age 25.  

At the same time, I am not impressed with those who claim "if you're old enough to do adult crimes, you're old enough to do adult time" or "at 14, you should know better" or any of that.  The same tough-minded people will argue that kids are stupid, and shouldn't be trusted to vote.  Yet, they don't take into account the developing brains of kids when it come to punishing them.  That's a disgusting double standard.

Seriously, I don't see why both age and crime can't be taken into account.  Teenagers shouldn't get away with murder, but kids don't have the same rights as adults, and they shouldn't be held to the same standards either.

[courts]

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

death

Both of these are absurd.  I voted 30 years, and only for the most horrific crimes.  It's a shame that the justice system tends to force a choice between these outrageous extremes.  

If a 14-year-old maliciously murders six at his school, it's OK if he suffers past age 25.  

At the same time, I am not impressed with those who claim "if you're old enough to do adult crimes, you're old enough to do adult time" or "at 14, you should know better" or any of that.  The same tough-minded people will argue that kids are stupid, and shouldn't be trusted to vote.  Yet, they don't take into account the developing brains of kids when it come to punishing them.  That's a disgusting double standard.

Seriously, I don't see why both age and crime can't be taken into account.  Teenagers shouldn't get away with murder, but kids don't have the same rights as adults, and they shouldn't be held to the same standards either.

uh, i wouldn't have any problem granting full legal rights to 14 year olds. in the past we had no such social construct as 'adolescent' or 'teenage.' people got apprenticeships and were productive instead of living bizarrely long chunks of their life doing nothing in particular and being isolated from socialization with adults. 'teenage rebellion' wasn't really a meme pre 20th century for a reason. actually if you dig through my posts that's a recurring theme, the destructive infantilization of the public.

[TDAS04]

uh, i wouldn't have any problem granting full legal rights to 14 year olds. in the past we had no such social construct as 'adolescent' or 'teenage.' people got apprenticeships and were productive instead of living bizarrely long chunks of their life doing nothing in particular and being isolated from socialization with adults. 'teenage rebellion' wasn't really a meme pre 20th century for a reason. actually if you dig through my posts that's a recurring theme, the destructive infantilization of the public.

Fair enough, maybe you're consistent in treating them as adults, but many are not.  When 14-year-olds could be executed in the US, 21 was the voting age.  Clearly, adult policy-makers did not view adolescents as sensible enough to vote, but they were certainly viewed as old enough to work like adults and receive adult punishments.  That's having the responsibilities of adulthood without the rights or dignity of adulthood.

[TNF]

uh, i wouldn't have any problem granting full legal rights to 14 year olds. in the past we had no such social construct as 'adolescent' or 'teenage.' people got apprenticeships and were productive instead of living bizarrely long chunks of their life doing nothing in particular and being isolated from socialization with adults. 'teenage rebellion' wasn't really a meme pre 20th century for a reason. actually if you dig through my posts that's a recurring theme, the destructive infantilization of the public.

Fair enough, maybe you're consistent in treating them as adults, but many are not.  When 14-year-olds could be executed in the US, 21 was the voting age.  Clearly, adult policy-makers did not view adolescents as sensible enough to vote, but they were certainly viewed as old enough to work like adults and receive adult punishments.  That's having the responsibilities of adulthood without the rights or dignity of adulthood.

That actually hasn't changed, since 16 year olds are legally able to work but not legally able to vote. Which we fought a war over, if I do remember correctly.

[IceSpear]

20-30 years. A fully mentally functioning 14 year old who shoots up his school does not deserve a free pass.

[TDAS04]

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

You have pretty strong views, and and in your world agreeing with you on about 60% is just as awful as agreeing with you not at all.

If a 14-year-old brat murdered your mom in cold blood, you would support having that kid completely free at 18, correct?

[TNF]

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

You have pretty strong views, and and in your world agreeing with you on about 60% is just as awful as agreeing with you not at all.

If a 14-year-old brat murdered your mom in cold blood, you would support having that kid completely free at 18, correct?

Sick burn bro.

Yes, I would favor that person being legally off the hook at 18, provided that he spent the four years in between at some kind of mental institution or rehabilitative facility, with continued monitoring of him until he was not deemed a significant threat to society anymore.

[Frodo]

I'm assuming those voting for life imprisonment or death are doing so tongue-in-cheek.... 

Twenty years maximum is what I voted for.  Unlike most offenders in adult prisons, juveniles can still be rehabilitated. 

[IceSpear]

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

You have pretty strong views, and and in your world agreeing with you on about 60% is just as awful as agreeing with you not at all.

If a 14-year-old brat murdered your mom in cold blood, you would support having that kid completely free at 18, correct?

Sick burn bro.

Yes, I would favor that person being legally off the hook at 18, provided that he spent the four years in between at some kind of mental institution or rehabilitative facility, with continued monitoring of him until he was not deemed a significant threat to society anymore.

So you support the affluenza kid being sentenced to a couple years of horseback riding and massages?

[TNF]

I'm assuming those voting for life imprisonment or death are doing so tongue-in-cheek.... 

Twenty years maximum is what I voted for.  Unlike most offenders in adult prisons, juveniles can still be rehabilitated. 

Any particular reason why you think that's the case? I don't see why an adult would be un-reformable beyond the fact that prisons tend to cause more problems then they're worth.

[Franzl]

Well, excepting an occasional actual life sentence for the absolute worst (Meaning <1% of all murderers and some sexual offenders), I don't think people at any age should get more than 15-20 years in prison.

So for a young teenager, I could accept 10 years or so for serious crimes.

[Frodo]

I'm assuming those voting for life imprisonment or death are doing so tongue-in-cheek.... 

Twenty years maximum is what I voted for.  Unlike most offenders in adult prisons, juveniles can still be rehabilitated. 

Any particular reason why you think that's the case? I don't see why an adult would be un-reformable beyond the fact that prisons tend to cause more problems then they're worth.

Younger offenders (being more malleable) can more easily be rehabilitated than older inmates who are generally more set in their ways, and more given to recidivism upon release. 

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Ultimately I think it depends on the crime and the mental capacity of the perpetrator, but as someone who opposes the death penalty in general, I obviously wouldn't support that as an option.

And I really don't care how we treated adolescents in the 1800s, no matter how good people back then (who, by the way, knew very little about child psychology) thought it was.  You don't keep tradition just for the sake of keeping tradition.  If something turns out to be bulls**t, you move on from it.

[courts]

I'm assuming those voting for life imprisonment or death are doing so tongue-in-cheek....  

Twenty years maximum is what I voted for.  Unlike most offenders in adult prisons, juveniles can still be rehabilitated.  

call me crazy but i'm skeptical that someone that's killed and/or sodomized someone before they're even out of 9th grade is going to be a model citizen. particularly after 20 years in a cage surrounded by people named t-bone, jigs and 'the jesus.'

[Mordecai]

Looks like I'm the only who voted "Juvenile incarceration until age 21".

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

death

Both of these are absurd.  I voted 30 years, and only for the most horrific crimes.  It's a shame that the justice system tends to force a choice between these outrageous extremes.  

Moderate heroism?

[RedSLC]

Option 7, followed by mandatory rehabilitation.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe option 1, and possibly option 2, have been ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS.

[IceSpear]

Looks like I'm the only who voted "Juvenile incarceration until age 21".

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

death

Both of these are absurd.  I voted 30 years, and only for the most horrific crimes.  It's a shame that the justice system tends to force a choice between these outrageous extremes.  

Moderate heroism?

As opposed to far left heroism or far right heroism?

[PJ]

TDAS, can you give a specific example?

[DC Al Fine]

Hmm that's a tough one. I voted death. In general I think 14 year olds should get a bit of leniency, but I can't rule out even the most severe punishments because there's always the possibility of some teenage psychopath doing something horrible and knowing full well what they did.

[Hatman 🍁]

Nothing. If they can't be trusted to vote, than they're not full fledged citizens, and therefore shouldn't be held responsible for their actions. However, if 14 years olds were granted the right to vote, than they should be given the same treatment as any older offender.

[TDAS04]

TDAS, can you give a specific example?

A 14-year-old commits a crime that could result in the death penalty for an adult (assuming that the state has the death penalty).  He walks into school and intentionally murders six.

Looks like I'm the only who voted "Juvenile incarceration until age 21".

Rehabilitation until 18 (not f**king evil)

death

Both of these are absurd.  I voted 30 years, and only for the most horrific crimes.  It's a shame that the justice system tends to force a choice between these outrageous extremes.  

Moderate heroism?

Yes, obviously opposing both death and a slap on the wrist for serious 14-year-old criminals is horrible moderate heroism.