Alternate State Capitals: Rules and Master Thread

[Del Tachi]

Let's face it, not all state capitals were created equal.

So maybe its time we reconsidered them, all of them.

In this series we will do just that.  I will post a poll for each state suggesting possibilities for alternate state capitals.  Each person will get up to three votes to select which cities he thinks would be the best candidates for the new capital, the polls will run for 48 hours each and the results of the voting will not be known until after the poll has closed.  In the event that no city reaches at least a 50% majority of the vote, a run-off will be held between the top two contenders.  The runoff votes will only last 24 hours and will start as soon as possible after the results of the first round are announced.

Following are a list of the 50 States with the "nominees" for new capital.  If you don't like the selections for a certain state, you may move for a city to be added  to or stricken from the list.  If your motion receives at least two seconds then the city will be added to the appropriate state's list.  However, if you move to strike a city (and receive the necessary two seconds) it may only be stricken if there is no objection.  If there is any objection the city will remain for consideration by the Forum.  Motions to remove cities from consideration may be halted by any objection to said motion regardless of the number of seconds.  Motions to amend the lists may be made any time prior to the opening of that state's poll, after the poll opens no further changes to that state's list are allowed.

With all that being said, here's the list of nominated cities for all 50 states.

Alabama
Auburn
Birmingham
Huntsville
Mobile
Tuscaloosa

Alaska
Anchorage
Fairbanks

Arizona
Flagstaff
Mesa
Tucson

Arkansas
Fayetteville
Fort Smith
Hot Springs
Pine Bluff

California
Anaheim
Bakersfield
Chico
Davis
Fresno
Los Angeles
Modesto
Oakland
Pasadena
Redding
San Bernardino
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose
Stockton

Colorado
Boulder
Colorado Springs
Grand Junction
Pueblo

Connecticut
Bridgeport
Danbury
New Haven
Stamford
Waterbury

Delaware
Milford
Wilmington

Florida
Bradenton
Fort Lauderdale
Gainesville
Jacksonville
Miami
Ocala
Orlando
Pensacola
Port St. Lucie
Sarasota
St. Augustine
St. Petersburg
Tampa
West Palm Beach

Georgia
Albany
Athens
Augusta
Columbus
Macon
Savannah

Hawaii
Hilo
Kahului
Wahiawa

Idaho
Idaho Falls
Nampa
Pocatello
Twin Falls

Illinois
Bloomington
Champaign-Urbana
Chicago
Decateur
Joliet
Peoria
Rockford

Indiana
Bloomington
Evansville
Fort Bend
Fort Wayne
Gary
Lafayette
Terre Haute

Iowa
Ames
Cedar Rapids
Davenport
Iowa City
Sioux City
Waterloo

Kansas
Emporia
Kansas City
Manhattan
Salina
Wichita

Kentucky
Bowling Green
Lexington
Louisville

Louisiana
Alexandria
Lafayette
Lake Charles
Monroe
New Orleans
Shreveport

Maine
Bangor
Lewiston
Portland

Maryland
Baltimore
Cumberland
Frederick
Hagerstown
Salisbury

Massachusetts
Cambridge
Lowell
Quincy
Plymouth
Springfield
Worcester

Michigan
Ann Arbor
Detroit
Grand Rapids
Flint
Kalamazoo
Marquette
Saginaw
Traverse City

Minnesota
Duluth
Minneapolis
Rochester
Saint Cloud

Mississippi
Biloxi
Clarksdale
Columbus
Greenville
Gulfport
Hattiesburg
Merdian
Natchez
Oxford
Vicksburg
Tupelo

Missouri
Cape Giraudeau
Columbia
Joplin
Kansas City
Springfield
St. Louis

Montana
Billings
Bozeman
Kalispell
Miles City
Missoula

Nebraska
Alliance
Grand Isle
Omaha

Nevada
Elko
Henderson
Las Vegas
Reno

New Hampshire
Dover
Laconia
Manchester
Nashua
Portsmouth

New Jersey
Atlantic City
Camden
Newark
Paterson
Princeton
Union City

New Mexico
Albuquerque
Farmington
Los Alamos
Roswell

New York
Binghampton
Buffalo
Elmira
Hempstead
Ithaca
Rochester
New York
Schenectady
Syracuse
Utica

North Carolina
Asheville
Chapel Hill
Charlotte
Fayetteville
Greensboro
Raleigh
Wilmington
Winston-Salem

North Dakota
Dickinson
Grand Forks
Fargo
Williston

Ohio
Akron
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Dayton
Lima
Marion
Toledo
Youngstown

Oklahoma
Enid
Muskogee
Stillwater
Tulsa

Oregon
Corvallis
Eugene
Medford
Portland

Pennsylvania
Allentown
Altoona
Bethlehem
Erie
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Punxsutawney
Reading
Scranton
State College
Wilkes-Barre
Williamsport

Rhode Island
Cranston
Newport
Pawtucket
Warwick

South Carolina
Charleston
Clemson
Florence
Greeville
Myrtle Beach
Spartanburg
Sumter

South Dakota
Brookings
Rapid City
Sioux Falls

Tennessee
Chattanooga
Dyersburg
Jackson
Johnson City
Knoxville
Memphis

Texas
Abilene
Amarillo
Brownsville
Corpus Christi
Dallas
El Paso
Fort Worth
Houston
Killeen
Lubbock
McAllen
Midland
Odessa
San Antonio
Waco

Utah
Logan
Ogden
Park City
Provo
St. George

Vermont
Burlington
Middlebury
Rutland

Virginia
Alexandria
Arlington
Blacksburg
Charlottesville
Newport News
Norfolk
Lynchburg
Virginia Beach
Williamsburg

Washington
Bellingham
Ellensburg
Seattle
Spokane
Tacoma
Walla Walla

West Virginia
Elkins
Morgantown
Wheeling

Wisconsin
Appleton
Eau Claire
Fond-du-Luc
Green Bay
Milwaukee
Oshkosh
Sheboygan
Wausau

Wyoming
Casper
Jackson Hole
Laramie
Rawlins

I'll keep this up for a couple of hours so that y'all have the chance to amend the Alabama list if you want.

We will be going in alphabetical order.

May the best cities be made capitals!


Accepted Motions

Additions
Plymouth, MA

Deletions
None

Pending Motions

Additions
Aiken, SC (Awaiting suffcient second, 1/2)
New Brunswick, NJ (Awaiting suffcient second, 1/2)
Jersey City, NJ (Awaiting suffcient second, 1/2)
Brattleboro, VT (Awaiting suffcient second, 1/2)
Milledgeville, GA (Awaiting suffcient second, 1/2)
Butte, MT (Awaiting suffcient second, 1/2)
Kokomo, IN (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Corydon, IN (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Mitchell, SD (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Lakeland, FL (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Daytona Beach, FL (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Perth Amboy, NJ (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Elizabeth, NJ (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
New London, CT (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
White River Junction, VT (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Hampton, VA (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)
Vandalia, IL (Awaiting suffcient second, 0/2)

Deletions
Clemson, SC (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 1/2)
Union City, NJ (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 1/2)
Kalispell, MT (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 1/2)
Miles City, MT (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 1/2)
Fort Bend, IN (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 1/2)
Bradenton, FL (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 0/2)
Port St. Lucie, FL (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 0/2)
Hempstead, NY (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 0/2)
Park City, UT (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 0/2)
St. George, UT (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 0/2)
Newport News, VA (Awaiting suffcient second/objection, 0/2)

Nominated for Deletion but Objection Raised (will be included)
Pensacola, FL
St. Petersburg, FL


Winners

Alabama:  Birmingham

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

For South Carolina:

Move to strike Clemson: (too small and too far from central South Carolina, even if it is close to Central, South Carolina)

Move to add Aiken: (certainly the poshest town in the State, with one of the few real tennis courts in this country)

[traininthedistance]

For NJ: I'd suggest you strike Union City (it's not really any sort of a distinct center, it's just a very small and dense slice of land), and add New Brunswick and Jersey City.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

For Massachusetts I would strike the cities that abut the actual capital and possibly add Plymouth for its historic importance, although its relatively small size (compared to the other options for Massachusetts, not to the capitals of the states north of Massachusetts!) makes it seem less likely. For Vermont consider adding Brattleboro; it's the largest municipality east of the Green Mountains.

[TJ in Oregon]

If we're considering historic importance, for Ohio we should consider Marietta. It would definitely be a better choice than Marion.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I'll second Plymouth, Massachusetts.

Also I'll nominate Milledgeville, Georgia.

[Redalgo]

I move to strike Kalispell and Miles City from the list for MT, both having unsuitably small populations.

I also move to add Butte to the list for MT. Though an environmental disaster area, it has a rich cultural and political past and was one of the original options in the rigged election that made Helena the capital.

Edit: Oh right - and I second all of the proposals made in the thread thus far.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Motion to strike Fort Bend from Indiana and put Kokomo and Corydon (first state capital).

[ElectionsGuy]

I like all the options here, this will be fun.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

Motion - add Detroit to MI

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I also move to add Butte to the list for MT. Though an environmental disaster area, it has a rich cultural and political past and was one of the original options in the rigged election that made Helena the capital.

Wasn't that technically Anaconda? (I suppose if Kalispell and Miles City are too small Anaconda these days is too, though.)

[bedstuy]

I would add Mitchell to South Dakota.

[Donerail]

Bradenton (too small, too close to other major cities)
Fort Lauderdale
Gainesville
Jacksonville
Lakeland (or, if you'd rather, Orlampa - central location)
Miami
Ocala
Orlando
Pensacola (small, far away from everything else - all of Tally's problems amplified)
Port St. Lucie (essentially an offshoot of the South FL megaregion)
Sarasota
St. Augustine
St. Petersburg (because Tampa)
Tampa
West Palm Beach

[Dereich]

Bradenton (too small, too close to other major cities)
Fort Lauderdale
Gainesville
Jacksonville
Lakeland (or, if you'd rather, Orlampa - central location)
Miami
Ocala
Orlando
Pensacola (small, far away from everything else - all of Tally's problems amplified)
Port St. Lucie (essentially an offshoot of the South FL megaregion)
Sarasota
St. Augustine
St. Petersburg (because Tampa)
Tampa
West Palm Beach

I agree with all of these except Pensacola. It might have problems but it is a legitimate mid/largish sized city with no other viable options in the region. You've gotta give central time zone Florida a bit of love.

If I was going to add anything I guess I'd include Daytona Beach. You can make as good an argument for there as half the other places.

[traininthedistance]

It occurs to me that if we're talking about historical importance, Perth Amboy and Elizabeth both probably deserve mention for NJ.

[Del Tachi]

So, I'm on vacation this weekend.  But the Alabama poll will be up sometime Monday.  Continue to make motions/seconds in my absence, I rule on the legitimacy of any objections on Sunday. 

[Del Tachi]

Motion - add Detroit to MI

I meant to have Detroit on the initial list, I'm going to add it.

[Redalgo]

Wasn't that technically Anaconda?

To answer your question and elaborate somewhat...

Anaconda was initially the nearby site for the copper smelter since Butte itself wasn't a suitable location for reasons involving resource logistics. In the election for capital Butte was one of the options but one of the copper kings, Marcus Daly, had been the founder of Anaconda and wanted it to become the state capital. William Clark, a fellow business mogul and even more cartoonishly-corrupt Democratic politician who Mark Twain dubbed the ultimate rich HP of the gilded age, pushed for Helena instead mostly for the satisfaction of trolling Daly (they really hated each other).

Butte is where the miners and other workers who flocked in tended to live. The population back in the 1910s rivaled that of Billings today. It had enormous European and Asiatic immigrant communities, fairgrounds, a large park, etc. that were unfortunately destroyed when the Berkeley Pit got dug. The city was a flashpoint for politics - with unionists, anarchists, pacifists, and socialists influential at the local level with interests in conflict with those of the copper kings and mainstream politicians back east - especially once World War I was in full swing and the metals provided in Butte were considered to be of strategic importance. Unrest resulted in declarations of martial law and the city's occupation by the National Guard on multiple occasions. There were political assassinations, bombings, violent responses to protests, frivolous lawsuits, and private wars waged underground in mineshafts as robber barons struggled for dominance over the "richest hill on Earth." At the time Butte had booze, brothels, a reputation for sin, and life expectancy in the 40s thanks to Anaconda's smelter.

More significantly for folks outside of Montana though, Butte provided most of the copper needed for electrification of the American countryside and set the dominos in motion when it came to convincing President Wilson that sedition laws were needed to suppress radical labour interests. Though the city has been in poor shape since the 1980s and remains a mere shadow of its former self, I fancy Butte both for the potential of breathing new life into the city and having the capital in a symbolic location where people are forced to recognize the burdens that corruption, greed, and wanton exploitation of the environment can impose on people for generations if left unchecked.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

CT - New London (lots of maritime history in the area and this list needs an Eastern CT site)
MA - Plymouth
VT - White River Junction maybe? (small, but a transportation hub - would make a good site in an  alternate history at least)
VA - strike Newport News unless there's a major effort for revitalizing the old downtown area - and still you'd have to deal with the coal pollution problem. 
       add Hampton (a vibrant downtown, historical importance)

[OAM]

Are the actual capitals going to be in the poll to, if we like them where they are?

Also if historical is important, Vandalia for Illinois.  Sadly the other previous capitals would be totally unsuited even in an alternate timeline...

[NewYorkExpress]

New York

Move to Strike Hempstead... Too close to NYC

[RedSLC]

Utah - move to strike Park City (too small), and St. George (too far from center of state).

[Franknburger]

This may for many states lead into a general discussion on the features of the "optimal" capital:

1. Geographic centrality
    a.) in general geographic terms (e.g. optimal accessibility from all points on the state territory)
    b.) in the sense of a border point / interface between major sub-regions

2.  Population and/or economic centre (mostly, but not always, corresponding). There may also be cases where the largest city is not part of the largest agglomeration (don't have examples for the US at hand, but TX  or FL might qualify - for Germany it would be Berlin vs. the Ruhr)

3. Historical / cultural significance

Linked to this, there is the old discussion on whether a small-town capital is beneficial (regional stimulus, higher efficiency, avoids "metro politics", etc.) or detrimental (out of touch with the centre's development and sentiments) to development. 

It might be interesting to also run a general discussion thread / poll on these criteria (possibly not limited to the US, but considering as well cases such as Brazil, Kazakhstan or Nigeria).

[7,052,770]

I never would have expected you of all people to include Oxford but exclude Starkville.  Surely this was a soon-to-be-corrected oversight?

[Gass3268]

Wisconsin

Add Belmont, it was the territorial capital.