MA: Mideast Foster Care Reform Act of 2014 (Vetoed)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

NAY

I see no reason to rush to pass this now.  We have over a month to wait for GM analysis; furthermore, I am severely unhappy with foster care being used as a front for tax increases.

[Franzl]

AYE

[Njall]

Aye

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Abstain

I support this bill. However the fundamental problem is increasing taxes instead of stiffening the fees imposed on the child abusers. Increasing taxes on Mid-easterners in these economic hard times is simply not something I can support. I think bringing it up in the next session after the GM can analyze the bill along with our upcoming budget is a more prudent path.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 1, with 1 ABSTAIN.  The AYEs have it, and the bill has passed.  The bill is now passed onto the Governor for his signature or veto.

[Potus]

I would like an override vote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

24 hours for debate.

Once again, I emphasize the point I made before.  RileyKeaton is being absolutely unreasonable here and has essentially killed his own bill.  I want to wait for the GM's analysis, and I don't agree with using foster care as a front to raise taxes.  I will be voting against the override.

[Potus]

The nature of a trust fund is that it is governed, in this case by gubernatorial appointments, by trustees. It's the responsibility of these trustees to manage the account and make sure it stays in the black with the amount it receives from the Legislature every year. A GM analysis isn't necessary because it can't spend more than it takes in unless the trustees let it, which is the Governor's job to manage.

The taxation is based on the fact that addiction does damage to families. That damage to families puts additional stress on the foster care system. In the same way gas taxes pay for highway maintenance, a portion of "sin taxes" will be used to pay for the maintenance of the foster care system. It's a good way of financing projects. A usage tax.

Taxes aren't going up on anyone that doesn't have an option not to pay them. There is ample help available, more in Atlasia than in real life, to deal with addiction and kick the habit. I see things like sin taxes to be a better way of raising revenue because it is more voluntary than other taxes.

The bill cannot spend more than it takes in. It is at worst budget neutral, at best budget positive. The way it's set up prevents this from adding an unfunded and fiscally reckless program to the budget.

[Potus]

Also, a GM analysis won't tell us whether Spiral will appoint capable trustees or the decisions those trustees will make. That's why a GM report is unnecessary.


I intend to support override.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Clauses 18 and 20 are not part of the trust, so how do you know that it is budget neutral?

[Potus]

Those expenses are to be deducted from the FCOF. That's how the executive branch would implement it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Those expenses are to be deducted from the FCOF. That's how the executive branch would implement it.

Where is that in the bill?  It just says "shall".  So what if the money isn't in the FCOF?  The bill still mandates that we pay that money out.

[Potus]

Real world Ohio has 14,000 foster kids. It's a large state that was joined with the 9 other states to form the Mideast. If every state has the same number of foster kids as a state as large as Ohio,(which they don't, most states will have much much fewer), that's 140,000 kids. If they all left foster care all at once, the cost would would be a one time expense of 420M dollars. That's not much when you look at the sin tax increases. It's also a high ball estimate.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

But you have no clue what the increase on sin taxes would actually be, without the GM analysis, correct?

[PPT Spiral]

Something to keep in mind here is that the GM is God in Atlasia. If we're going to take this game seriously then we have to see what the numbers are from whoever occupies that role, as they're the only one with the power to determine that. Without their input, everything that we pass nationally and in the regions is just our own hypothetical judgments.

This is a rather large overhaul of our current system. If the GM doesn't give their word before approval then that makes me much more uncomfortable with presently signing it into law.

[Napoleon]

The GM is not God in Atlasia. Thats a myth perpetrated by a few people and the facts should be known. The best comparison for the GM is the CBO, a careful analysis to make a projection and nothing more.

Got to love the not so subtle attacks though. "Lets pass it and if it doesn't work, its because the Governor made poor decisions!"

[Potus]

My point is that the trustees, which are gubernatorial appointments, are supposed to run the account. It won't go wrong unless the trustees are inept.

[Franzl]

I will support overriding the veto.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

My point is that the trustees, which are gubernatorial appointments, are supposed to run the account. It won't go wrong unless the trustees are inept.

It doesn't say anything about clauses 18 and 20 being part of the trust fund.

[Potus]

My point is that the trustees, which are gubernatorial appointments, are supposed to run the account. It won't go wrong unless the trustees are inept.

It doesn't say anything about clauses 18 and 20 being part of the trust fund.

If the price tag were 420M(a very high estimate) and all at once(which is the costliest thing it could be), that's not a massive price to pay with the sin tax increases we're talking. They're significant. Even with just 15% of them going to pay for the foster care exit benefits. The meat of the bill is the FCOF and privatization of cases. Which both stand on great merits and should become law.


EDIT: If you assume that many kids are in foster care all the time(a high number) and that they're in foster care from birth to 18(which is rare), the tax increases only need to make 23.34 million of year. Million. We write our budget in the billions.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What we write our overall budget in doesn't matter.  If you're going to mandate paying out these things, and you don't even know if you can fund the plan, we need to go back and re-work the bill.

Passing this without knowing how much it'll cost and how much will be raised is a dumb idea.  There's absolutely no good reason to pass it without input from the GM first.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

We will now take this to a final vote to override the Governor's veto.  A two-thirds majority of those elected and serving is required to override the veto.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

NAY

[Franzl]

AYE

[Potus]

AYE