New Zealand's Prime Minister favors changing the flag

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

[Vosem]

To be fair, on second observation the Lockwood flag is quite nice.

[Zioneer]

All the former Dominions have a real lasting link with "the Mother Country"; there's no need or call for getting rid of this beyond the usual childish "anti-imperialist" elements. Even Key doesn't really want this. 110 years of history don't need to go on the pyre just because ADD leftie kids have distracted themselves from last month's fad of wanting to name everything after Nelson Mandela to this "anti-colonialist" crap.

As for the poster who asked "I think if you asked MOST NZ'ders which symbol they relate to, the Union Jack or the Fern?" - if you actually take a look at the NZ flag, it isn't simply a Union Jack.

But what if they don't want to be confused with Australia's flag anymore?

Only an uninformed moron could confuse the two flags. I understand why this could be a problem for some Americans.

Wow, nice nationalist jab there. You seriously can't see how a flag which is identical to Australia's except for the number/placement of stars and their color would be confusing, even to informed folks?

[Hifly]

All the former Dominions have a real lasting link with "the Mother Country"; there's no need or call for getting rid of this beyond the usual childish "anti-imperialist" elements. Even Key doesn't really want this. 110 years of history don't need to go on the pyre just because ADD leftie kids have distracted themselves from last month's fad of wanting to name everything after Nelson Mandela to this "anti-colonialist" crap.

As for the poster who asked "I think if you asked MOST NZ'ders which symbol they relate to, the Union Jack or the Fern?" - if you actually take a look at the NZ flag, it isn't simply a Union Jack.

But what if they don't want to be confused with Australia's flag anymore?

Only an uninformed moron could confuse the two flags. I understand why this could be a problem for some Americans.

Wow, nice nationalist jab there. You seriously can't see how a flag which is identical to Australia's except for the number/placement of stars and their color would be confusing, even to informed folks?

I neither have any connection to either nation, nor have I ever visited either of them, yet I have mysteriously never had such a problem. From my own personal experience (having both friends and relatives of my own age in the US), I can say with confidence that the geographic knowledge of American teens doesn't approach anything near the levels found in that of my European friends and relatives, and I can imagine this sort of thing confusing them. In fact, most average American teens wouldn't probably be able to recognise the flag of either nation. And if we follow the Republican attitude towards education, it'll probably stay that way.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

You guys all need to sit down and have a chill pill, yes both the whiny anti-imperialist whine crew and the Arrghh we cannot ever chanage anything crew.

If New Zeelanders feel that their flag isn't an addequate symbol for their country, they should change, if they feel it's a strong and uniting symbol of their country, they should keep it.  

The Fern and the current flag are both used by the NZ-landers I know as a proud symbol of their country, and I think most people down there would be fine with keeping the current one.

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

I actually liked this proposal a lot. It's a really nice flag.

[morgieb]

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

Yeah, that flag looks pretty good.

[Storebought]

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

New Zealand's current flag is so anonymous as to be unrecognizable, but the replacement is hideous.

[Rocky Rockefeller]

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

It's really a quite beautiful design.

[Hatman 🍁]

All the former Dominions have a real lasting link with "the Mother Country"; there's no need or call for getting rid of this beyond the usual childish "anti-imperialist" elements. Even Key doesn't really want this. 110 years of history don't need to go on the pyre just because ADD leftie kids have distracted themselves from last month's fad of wanting to name everything after Nelson Mandela to this "anti-colonialist" crap.

As for the poster who asked "I think if you asked MOST NZ'ders which symbol they relate to, the Union Jack or the Fern?" - if you actually take a look at the NZ flag, it isn't simply a Union Jack.

So, do you think Canada should go back to the red ensign then?

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

What an awful design. Black, seriously?  

For what reason is black an inherently bad color for the field of a flag?

What an awful design. Black, seriously? 
As Vosem said, the current flag is a perfectly accurate representation of New Zealand's western heritage, culture and founding.

Yeah, and Canada should totally get rid of that stupid leaf and go back to this:

In fairness, the Red Ensign aside, I rather like Pearson's originally intended design, possibly more than the actual current Canadian flag.

Eww, no. One of the reasons why "Pearson's pennant" lost out is because of how ugly it is. It was used as a decoy to get the Tories to "compromise" on the current flag.

Then the people involved in the Canadian flag debate by and large had different aesthetic senses than mine. I suppose it might look worse when actually used in the contexts in which flags are used, or when lacking the combination of familiarity and novelty that it has after fifty years of the eventual design.

[politicus]

I liked this one better. The "English" colours of the new one don't suit the design.

[Nichlemn]

I quite like the Lockwood fan. The silver fern has too many associations with sport IMO (though I suppose over time they'd diminish).

[politicallefty]

I'll join the apparent majority here and say that I think the Lockwood proposal would make for a very nice flag for New Zealand. It keeps the Southern Cross and the same colour scheme. I also like the Dignan proposal as well, but the only drawback with that is that it makes the fern look blurry when viewed on a smaller scale.

[Frodo]

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

I'd rather they keep their current flag, but if they must insist on changing it, this would definitely be my top choice, especially if the Tino Rangatiratanga doesn't get more appeal beyond the Maori.

Good; hopefully Australia follows suit in picking a flag which reflects their nation, not their past under London.

As far as Australia goes, the problem they have is that most of their alternatives are awful, enough to make their current flag look beautiful by comparison.  

This is quite possibly the only one that actually looks half-way decent:

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

If that's the only one that looks "decent" I do not want to know what the alternative is. 

[politicus]

If that's the only one that looks "decent" I do not want to know what the alternative is. 

This one is quite nice.

http://www.sunburntflag.com.au/

Generally red-white and blue is a European colour scheme that is somehow wrong for both NZ and Australia in their present state.
Yellow for the Aussie deserts and green for the fertility of NZ would be fitting colours to include.

[Beezer]

Australia could always adopt the "Event Horizon" flag:

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Like many here, I like Lockwood's proposal.  The use of the colors of the Union Jack is a sufficient nod to New Zealand's European history.

I'd rather they keep their current flag, but if they must insist on changing it, this would definitely be my top choice, especially if the Tino Rangatiratanga doesn't get more appeal beyond the Maori.

Good; hopefully Australia follows suit in picking a flag which reflects their nation, not their past under London.

As far as Australia goes, the problem they have is that most of their alternatives are awful, enough to make their current flag look beautiful by comparison.  

This is quite possibly the only one that actually looks half-way decent:

That is ... disgusting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proposed_Australian_flags

[afleitch]

At the end of it all, with respect to New Zealand and Australia if you re-design a national flag you have to remember it's a flag, not a sports banner, or tourist board logo (which is what that kangaroo one reminds me of) The 'Ausflag 2000 design get's it right and keeps the integrity of the Australian design. PM Helen Clark's simple design for New Zealand get's it right too. Flags that try and incorporate too many colours and too many designs are too busy.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

At the end of it all, with respect to New Zealand and Australia if you re-design a national flag you have to remember it's a flag, not a sports banner, or tourist board logo (which is what that kangaroo one reminds me of) The 'Ausflag 2000 design get's it right and keeps the integrity of the Australian design. PM Helen Clark's simple design for New Zealand get's it right too. Flags that try and incorporate too many colours and too many designs are too busy.

Yeah, the Ausflag 2000 design is my favourite of the bunch.

[TTS1996]

As an Australian, I'm very familiar with the NZ flag. And the point I made about Union Jack vs the Fern was in response to that specific issue of the Union Jack's position not discussing the Southern Cross. The flag issue in Australia and New Zealand has nothing to do with Mandela-worship lefties...

Except it does. Usually it's about ritualistic hat tipping to the Aboriginal population (sod solving their problems with glue and moonshine, toss about changing symbols like the flag is enough...), that got put aside for a bit while toss about Mandela could go on, now it's the flag... the whole ALP anti-Britain cult, chipping away a the identification of 90% of Australians with Britain.

As for all the posts above about how awful it is for Australia and New Zealand to have flags that cretins can easily mix up:





Idiots may mix these up; tough.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

As an Australian, I'm very familiar with the NZ flag. And the point I made about Union Jack vs the Fern was in response to that specific issue of the Union Jack's position not discussing the Southern Cross. The flag issue in Australia and New Zealand has nothing to do with Mandela-worship lefties...

Except it does. Usually it's about ritualistic hat tipping to the Aboriginal population (sod solving their problems with glue and moonshine, toss about changing symbols like the flag is enough...), that got put aside for a bit while toss about Mandela could go on, now it's the flag... the whole ALP anti-Britain cult, chipping away a the identification of 90% of Australians with Britain.

As for all the posts above about how awful it is for Australia and New Zealand to have flags that cretins can easily mix up:





Idiots may mix these up; tough.

You're completely wrong... but you're welcome to be. On a number of fronts.

[politicus]

John Key now says he wants a referendum on the flag question in 2015.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/22/john-key-2015-referendum-new-zealand-flag-union-jack

[Citizen Hats]

The silver fern is a striking flag. I'd go for it, especially since NZ's current flag is only a little different from Australia's, which is somewhat more iconic. 

I agree with other posters that Ontario should change theirs as well. I quite frankly find it bizarre when I visit Toronto and see all these red ensigns everywhere.  The inherent Toryism of the design only resonates with a handful of culturally conservative Tories today, rather than the bulk of Ontario

Oddly enough, I find the British Columbian flag, with it's non-conventional union jack incorporation, to be quite pleasant

[DC Al Fine]

Afleitch got it right. The main problem with changing the flag is that it could turn into a overly busy, done by committee, piece of crap. Many of the proposals I've seen look really ugly as they try to give little shout outs to half a dozen groups.

I prefer Red/Blue ensigns, but all I really want is for my flag to not look tacky. The silver fern is acceptable.