Nevada's Repuplican Gov: State SSM ban 'no longer defensible in court'

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Heh.  I could post twenty paragraphs on what the Bible's "clobber passages" really mean, but that discussion's already been had here at least twenty times and I'd rather we not turn this into a religious debate.  But yes, CCSF, if you're being genuine and you feel your faith has become a roadblock to accepting yourself for who you are, I strongly recommend looking into open and affirming sects.  The Alliance of Baptists, ELCA Lutheran Church, and Religious Society of Friends are also worth exploring.

[CountryClassSF]

Heh.  I could post twenty paragraphs on what the Bible's "clobber passages" really mean, but that discussion's already been had here at least twenty times and I'd rather we not turn this into a religious debate.  But yes, CCSF, if you're being genuine and you feel your faith has become a roadblock to accepting yourself for who you are, I strongly recommend looking into open and affirming sects.  The Alliance of Baptists, ELCA Lutheran Church, and Religious Society of Friends are also worth exploring.

I'm quite happy with who I am -- an American.

[TJ in Oregon]

CountryClassSF, do you see sexual orientation as an identity? I ask because while I do know several religious folks who struggle with same-sex attraction (and struggle, not capitulate), most of them reject the label of being considered "gay". I suppose it would be entirely possible to accept the label while rejecting the underlying feelings behind it, but I've never known anyone to do that before. Usually it seems that self-identifying as "gay" tends to mean the individual has either come up with some way to make homosexuality fit into their religious beliefs, or has rejected their former religious beliefs entirely. Granted, I only know a small number of people who this describes, like maybe three, so I could be way off base.

[CountryClassSF]

CountryClassSF, do you see sexual orientation as an identity? I ask because while I do know several religious folks who struggle with same-sex attraction (and struggle, not capitulate), most of them reject the label of being considered "gay". I suppose it would be entirely possible to accept the label while rejecting the underlying feelings behind it, but I've never known anyone to do that before. Usually it seems that self-identifying as "gay" tends to mean the individual has either come up with some way to make homosexuality fit into their religious beliefs, or has rejected their former religious beliefs entirely. Granted, I only know a small number of people who this describes, like maybe three, so I could be way off base.

The honest answer is I don't know. But because of me trying to improve my faith and because of the way I have been treated by gays, it's not something I like.

Now with other folks of faith a lot use the term "SSA" (same-sex attraction, as you said), or they just say homosexual/gay. 

I guess my BELIEF (and I'm not saying I know all the facts), is that orientation is not a choice, whether it's a genetic problem or something else, it's not a choice.

[TJ in Oregon]

Heh.  I could post twenty paragraphs on what the Bible's "clobber passages" really mean, but that discussion's already been had here at least twenty times and I'd rather we not turn this into a religious debate.  But yes, CCSF, if you're being genuine and you feel your faith has become a roadblock to accepting yourself for who you are, I strongly recommend looking into open and affirming sects.  The Alliance of Baptists, ELCA Lutheran Church, and Religious Society of Friends are also worth exploring.

Scott, all theology aside, I think this paragraph is a demonstration of the problems behind much of the thinking that often goes into liberal Christianity: you're essentially telling the man that if his religious beliefs run counter to his self-esteem, clearly it's his religious beliefs that are wrong rather than possibly that self-esteem is not the determining factor in morality.

[CountryClassSF]

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I believe that tolerance is a one way street for the left , and that's being demonstrated in spades tonight. They can't imagine someone thinking as an individual vs a demographic group.

[TJ in Oregon]

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I believe that tolerance is a one way street for the left , and that's being demonstrated in spades tonight. They can't imagine someone thinking as an individual vs a demographic group.

The thing is--at least in the case of the last couple posts from Scott and Sol, I don't think they mean to be intolerant. I think they're trying in earnest to "help" you and make you feel better by suggesting changing your religious beliefs and don't really understand how someone could be in your position actually hold the views you do without wanting to be released in some way. But (and you can correct me if I'm wrong), I imagine you probably view God, and the moral code corresponding to discipleship, as your release rather than a burden.

[old timey villain]

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I believe that tolerance is a one way street for the left , and that's being demonstrated in spades tonight. They can't imagine someone thinking as an individual vs a demographic group.

So you would rather us encourage you to continue feeling ashamed of yourself, which would inevitably lead to a lifetime of unhappiness? That's your idea of tolerance? The intolerants are the ones who have made you feel ashamed of your sexuality.

[CountryClassSF]

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I live in the most intolerant, hateful city on the planet. This place is a 3rd world country. The gays I have known here treat me like garbage.

I would never want to become like that. Period.

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Why can't people around here understand that this aint the summer of Love anymore, okay? This is the real world.  The only people that  have made me feel ashamed of my sexuality are the degenerates of San Francisco who are completely and utterly hateful of anyone who isn't a Stalinist. I can only tell the truth. No kindhearted Christian has ever made me feel ashamed of anything.

[Likely Voter]

Am I the only one not buying this?

Anyway it certainly is derailing the thread.

[CountryClassSF]

Am I the only one not buying this?

Anyway it certainly is derailing the thread.

You mean, someone disagreed with the majority of (left leaning) posters, so it must not be "real?"

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Am I the only one not buying this?

Anyway it certainly is derailing the thread.

Like I said, I'm only trying to be semi-helpful because there are people in this country who think the way he does.  I'm done wasting my time, though.

[CountryClassSF]

Am I the only one not buying this?

Anyway it certainly is derailing the thread.

Like I said, I'm only trying to be semi-helpful because there are people in this country who think the way he does.  I'm done wasting my time, though.

You said extremely hurtful things about me and questioned my character--all because I refused to fall in line with a demographic group and instead chose to embrace individual opinion. You suggested I "get help" because I disagreed with your worldview.

I don't know how you can claim you were helping anyone other than taking cheapshots at me and bullying a gay conservative. Shame on you.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Heh.  I could post twenty paragraphs on what the Bible's "clobber passages" really mean, but that discussion's already been had here at least twenty times and I'd rather we not turn this into a religious debate.  But yes, CCSF, if you're being genuine and you feel your faith has become a roadblock to accepting yourself for who you are, I strongly recommend looking into open and affirming sects.  The Alliance of Baptists, ELCA Lutheran Church, and Religious Society of Friends are also worth exploring.

Scott, all theology aside, I think this paragraph is a demonstration of the problems behind much of the thinking that often goes into liberal Christianity: you're essentially telling the man that if his religious beliefs run counter to his self-esteem, clearly it's his religious beliefs that are wrong rather than possibly that self-esteem is not the determining factor in morality.

Well, no.  Like I said, there is a number of things I find wrong with the conservative Christian perspective on this issue - both Biblical and philosophical.  I also don't think there's an inherent conflict between one's self and their religious beliefs, and as a humanist I believe that universal human dignity is the principal component of morality and Christian teachings.

But, I'm not here to use this thread as a soapbox for myself and my own religious views.  I should have been more clear on why I mentioned those sects.  I mentioned them because they are known to be most accepting of homosexuals - that is, they either treat you the same regardless of your sexual orientation, perform gay weddings, ordain gay clergy, etc., or, they omit human sexuality from their teachings but maintain the status quo on marriage and ordination.  Either way, they're different from the fire and brimstone teachings of many churches on homosexuality.

Even if CCSF wants to go through life ashamed, the least he can do for himself is associate with churches that will accept him and emphasize on the thing that's paramount to the Christian faith (love), rather than condemn him.  At the very least, I think he should consider it.  Additionally, I would invite CCSF to do his own research on the 'homosexuality vs. God' debate and form his own opinion.

[CountryClassSF]

Well if RINO Sandoval won't defend his law, I hope the courts will allow someone to do so,. Like, the thousands of Nevadans who made the law to begin with, they might deserve a little bit of representation.

[RedSLC]

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Because I happen to believe marriage is a unique institution between one husband and one wife. And I don't believe that homosexuality should be celebrated. It is something I am ashamed of, not proud of. I want to be normal.

Oh, then. You're one of those people.

Have you tried thinking of it another way?

[CountryClassSF]

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I don't know what you're asking.

[Holmes]

90% sure CountryClassSF is a sock, but the sad reality is that people like him really exist. Declaring their love for MichaelSavage or Rick Santorum, then complaining that they're rejected by their peers. It's almost funny, but really it's tragic. They don't understand how the world works, how other people think and why they react the way they do to a fellow gay man doing as they do with the enemy.

[Brittain33]

Christ on a cracker, all three SSM ban threads right now are the same argument with the same troll.

[Brittain33]

Christ on a cracker, all three SSM ban threads right now are the same argument with the same troll.

I was wrong. It's four threads: Kansas, Nevada, Virginia, Indiana.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Well if RINO Sandoval won't defend his law, I hope the courts will allow someone to do so,. Like, the thousands of Nevadans who made the law to begin with, they might deserve a little bit of representation.

An elected official needs to offer more than mere slavishness to the whims of the electorate, even assuming they still feel as they did a decade ago.  It's clear that the courts are going to act to end the various state bans on SSM.  Trying to defend the indefensible is a waste of time and money which they owe it to the voters to spend where it will make a difference.

[afleitch]

I’m going to be harsh here.

CountryClass, if what you say is true then you deserve to have a rotten life. I’m sorry, but you do. You deserve to grow old alone and to not know love; real absolute perfect human love with another person. If you are in fact so self-loathing that you wish to deny rights to people who are gay; to deny them the happiness and the love that they share just because you can’t deal with your own internalised feelings then you deserve to be torn apart internally by it.

The fact you so blindly follow men who tell you what Christianity says, rather than finding out its message through your own life experience so much so that you sweep aside advice from other Christians and then homoeroticise “Jesus’ love” to try and get you through your suffering shows that the problem doesn’t lie in what you believe. It doesn’t lie in your faith. It lies entirely within you. I hope you reach peace with yourself.

[IceSpear]

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Because I happen to believe marriage is a unique institution between one husband and one wife. And I don't believe that homosexuality should be celebrated. It is something I am ashamed of, not proud of. I want to be normal.

is this real life

[seanNJ9]

I’m going to be harsh here.

CountryClass, if what you say is true then you deserve to have a rotten life. I’m sorry, but you do. You deserve to grow old alone and to not know love; real absolute perfect human love with another person. If you are in fact so self-loathing that you wish to deny rights to people who are gay; to deny them the happiness and the love that they share just because you can’t deal with your own internalised feelings then you deserve to be torn apart internally by it.

The fact you so blindly follow men who tell you what Christianity says, rather than finding out its message through your own life experience so much so that you sweep aside advice from other Christians and then homoeroticise “Jesus’ love” to try and get you through your suffering shows that the problem doesn’t lie in what you believe. It doesn’t lie in your faith. It lies entirely within you. I hope you reach peace with yourself.

You wasting this fantastic post on a troll is saddest thing I've ever seen

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I really do like TJ, but if your religious beliefs actually LEAD you to self-loathing and hatred... then it is something you need to reconsider.

There's a reason why the suicide rates among LGBT youth is 3x higher than the general population.