Mitt Romney says Sochi Olympics wasted "billions" of dollars.

[NewYorkExpress]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/02/16/sochi-olympics-waste-romney/5531297/

And yet he supports Boston's bid for the 2024 Summer Games... What a Hypocrite

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Well, he's not wrong. (And, frankly, he manifestly does genuinely know a lot more about the Olympics and in particular the economics of hosting them than you (or I) do.)

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Well, he's not wrong. (And, frankly, he manifestly does genuinely know a lot more about the Olympics and in particular the economics of hosting them than you (or I) do.)

Yeah, for once Romney is 100% right on the mark.

[Indy Texas]

Well, are there any Olympics that don't "waste" billions of dollars?

It's pretty much accepted in economics and public finance literature that public investment in infrastructure and facilities for spectator athletics doesn't generate a positive economic return.

In the case of the Olympics, you're investing in capital assets that are going to decline precipitously in value once the games are over because there won't be anything else to do with them.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, are there any Olympics that don't "waste" billions of dollars?

It's pretty much accepted in economics and public finance literature that public investment in infrastructure and facilities for spectator athletics doesn't generate a positive economic return.

Studies have shown quite the opposite. Since 1984, most Olympics have been a net gain for the economy.

[Bacon King]

Efficient financial management of a Winter Olympics is literally the one thing Mitt Romney genuinely has the grounds to school anyone on. Romney's budget for the 2002 Olympics was $1.3 billion and they ended up being under budget by a hundred million; when you add the $1.1 billion the Federal government gave Utah for transportation improvements, that brings the total cost of Salt Lake City's Olympics to $2.3 billion. In Sochi, that amount of money can buy you seven miles of paved road!

[You kip if you want to...]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

[ag]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

Which, sort of, describes Sochi. They found it pretty damn expensive, though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Studies have shown quite the opposite.

Bullsh!t studies, frequently commissioned/funded/supported-in-some-way-or-other by governments who are (for some curious reason) very keen to demonstrate that...

[Хahar 🤔]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

Which, sort of, describes Sochi. They found it pretty damn expensive, though.

I suspect holding the Winter Olympics in Hawaii would also be rather difficult.

[ingemann]

What was the purpose of the Winter Olympia in Russia?

To show the greatness of Russia, and here i don't mean the West, because even if Russia had delivered the best show ever, and given puppies to everyone, we would still not have been happy. Russia have shown Asia, the Middle East and Africa that Russia are rich, that they can make an impressive show in the middle of a pseudo warzone. So that have been a succees, especially as a terror attack on the Olympian Game itself have been avoided.

Another aspect was the legal transfer of money from the Russian state to Putin's cronies and allies. Well that have been a succees too.

At last Russia have gotten the bonus of showing Western arrogance and Russian willingness to stand up against the West.

So no the money have not been wasted.

[Silent Hunter]

Sochi's operating budget is about the same as usual - the extra cash has gone on infrastructure.

The 2012 Games have provided my football team with a new stadium and a deprived area of London with major redevelopment, not to mention major improvements in transport infrastructure.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The 2012 Games have provided my football team with a new stadium

Which is actually a deeply questionable benefit for various reasons.

[ag]

Sochi's operating budget is about the same as usual - the extra cash has gone on infrastructure.

The 2012 Games have provided my football team with a new stadium and a deprived area of London with major redevelopment, not to mention major improvements in transport infrastructure.

If you count just running the facilities as "operating budget", you might be true. Labor costs are not too high, especially if you heavily rely on draftees, as they do. Of course, this is a negligible proportion of the expense involved - literally, a rounding error.

If you count infrastructure that is only usable for the Olympics and for pretty much nothing else, you are simply wrong.  This is an isolated metro area of about 350 thousand people (400 thousand, if you include Tuapse, which is quite some distance away - just checked on google maps, 2.5 hours from Tuapse to Sochi, 3 hours to the Olympic park, almost 4 hours to the mountain event sites; and the 60 thousand people in Tuapse are the nearest substantial settlement to the Sochi proper, at leats if you do not count the impoverished Abkhazians across the border). There are not enough people to normally staff - forget regularly use - most of that infrastructure.  They imported much of the labor from elsewhere - in a month most of the receptionists, medical aids, cleaning people, etc., etc. will be permanently gone to wherever they normally live.

Nor are there many locals to enjoy the events (as far as I know, it is a good and rare day when a local sporting events gathers even 10,000 spectators). And getting outsiders to this isolated bit of land is not that straightforward. Even with extra flights specially for the Olympics they had trouble bringing down all those spectators. The facilities will never be used in any reasonable way for anything else, except a very occasional international competition. Add to this that even in mid February they barely have enough snow to run the races, having stockpiled it since the year before: recreational use of any of those facilities without a lot of heroics is only possible, perhaps, for 2 or 2.5 months in a good year (assuming no further global warming ), which makes it unlikely that any large permanent population may actually grow to service the new ski resort (which, I will remind you, is separated from any properly populated area by that famous "gold-plated" highway). No matter what you do, the swimming season there is longer - that is why this is a resort town.

So, if you consider it an infrastructure investment to build a bunch of sporting facilities and hotels in the middle of nowhere, where there is nobody either to use them or work in them, connect them to a semi-populated area by the most expensive highway in the world, and abandon big chunks of all that straight after the games - well, you have a funny definition of investment, I am afraid.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Why is Romney still talking?

[MaxQue]

It's not surprising he is saying that, since it can't be outsourced to China.

[Platypus]

I'm fairly confident Melbourne has made back the cost of the 1956 games hundreds and hundreds of times over. Yes, it was much cheaper back then, but the Olympic precinct in Melbourne is perhaps one of the best sporting zones of any city in the world. It's been through facelifts and changes over the decades, but it is still fundamentally thanks to the Olympics that those facilities in that area exist. There's a direct link from the Olympics to Melbourne hosting the Australian Open, as the most international example.

That said, it was a lot less expensive and a long time ago. But before the games Melbourne and Australia were barely known to the world. After them, even if an 8 year old only spots Melbourne on a map of Olympic host cities, that kid has an impression of the city as being part of the cities of global importance, at least a little bit more than they otherwise would have. In terms of Australia as a while, there's very little doubt to my mind that after 1956 Australia became more well known, and after 2000, more well liked (at least briefly).

Sydney doesn't have the same heritage as being a city of sporting prominence, despite the games, but is now firmly cemented as a city of global importance. Not a London or Tokyo, but pretty much level with Hong Kong and Chicago, which has importance for that city's economy in more ways than just sport.

The issue is how much is spent on venues that aren't used. The olution is to use the bloody venues, and also to turn the two weeks into an advertisement for the city and country in question. London attempted this with things like having the race walking going down The Mall, and was reasonably sucessful, although the ones that really succeeded were Barcelona and Sydney. Pre-Olympics, Barcelona was an important city but certainly not globally recognised, now it is as easily recalled as Madrid. Before the games, Sydney was the bridge and the opera house, afterwards it was the spirit of the volunteers and the genuine friendliness of the people of Australia that was the take-away, along with the sun, sand, and sea. If you host the Olympics with a clear idea of what you want the world to see, you win in the long run. The problem is, sometimes the spotlight can backfire...

[MaxQue]

Didn't Barcelona build Olympic infrastructure in derelict industrial land, in a plan to remove the no longer used industrial land separating the city and the seaside?

If I'm right, it was a wonderful urban renewal plan.

[Platypus]

Yeah, Barcelona has ended up with some white elephants - most tragically, the iconic diving pool - but the Olympics were the keystone of a major renewal of the city.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Incidentally, white elephants are a major reason why baseball is out of the Olympics.  There doesn't seem to be another major sport that needs a baseball/softball sized stadium, so the baseball facilities will be white elephants in any country that doesn't already play baseball.

[MaxQue]

Incidentally, white elephants are a major reason why baseball is out of the Olympics.  There doesn't seem to be another major sport that needs a baseball/softball sized stadium, so the baseball facilities will be white elephants in any country that doesn't already play baseball.

Other sports are not having an issue.
Soccer and tennis fields aren't issues, since all countries play them.
Hockey is ice, which can be used for just plain skating.
Basketball arenas can be build in a way to be transformable for other uses.

[Zioneer]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

For crap's sake, over a million people live in the Wasatch Front area that Salt Lake City is located in. We are not the middle of nowhere. Utah has about 2.7 million people as of 2014, and though it was smaller in 2002, it was still decently sized. And if Wiki is correct, then we were the biggest metropolitan area to hold the Winter Games up to that point!

[ag]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

For crap's sake, over a million people live in the Wasatch Front area that Salt Lake City is located in. We are not the middle of nowhere. Utah has about 2.7 million people as of 2014, and though it was smaller in 2002, it was still decently sized. And if Wiki is correct, then we were the biggest metropolitan area to hold the Winter Games up to that point!

Well, that is still middle of nowhere... Then, again, Sochi is a distant edge of the nowhere

[Zioneer]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

For crap's sake, over a million people live in the Wasatch Front area that Salt Lake City is located in. We are not the middle of nowhere. Utah has about 2.7 million people as of 2014, and though it was smaller in 2002, it was still decently sized. And if Wiki is correct, then we were the biggest metropolitan area to hold the Winter Games up to that point!

Well, that is still middle of nowhere... Then, again, Sochi is a distant edge of the nowhere

Fair enough. I'm just frustrated that Utah is considered "the middle of nowhere", when there's places like the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, etc.

[ag]

To paraphrase my own country's dear leader, it's much easier to throw an Olympics when you hold it in the middle of nowhere.

For crap's sake, over a million people live in the Wasatch Front area that Salt Lake City is located in. We are not the middle of nowhere. Utah has about 2.7 million people as of 2014, and though it was smaller in 2002, it was still decently sized. And if Wiki is correct, then we were the biggest metropolitan area to hold the Winter Games up to that point!

Well, that is still middle of nowhere... Then, again, Sochi is a distant edge of the nowhere

Fair enough. I'm just frustrated that Utah is considered "the middle of nowhere", when there's places like the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, etc.

Well, you guys, sure, are in the middle of all that