Plan to split California into 6 states advances
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  Plan to split California into 6 states advances
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Author Topic: Plan to split California into 6 states advances  (Read 31900 times)
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jfern
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« Reply #100 on: July 22, 2014, 02:39:00 AM »

6 seems ridiculous - why not just spit into Northern and Southern (not that would fly either).

Anyone how Northern and Southern differed in presidential voting?

Southern California is much more Republican than Northern California. A state just composed of the ten southern counties would have come close to voting for Bush in 2004; Kerry won 51.50% of the vote in those counties, while Bush won 47.22%.

Obama did almost as well in Southern California as the state as a whole. I think he got around 59% last time. Splitting the state in two along the 35° 47′ 28″ N line would clearly result in 2 more Democratic Senators and a couple more electoral votes for the Democrats.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2014, 05:16:14 AM »

I think Southern California has had a much more pronounced democratic trend than its Northern counterpart. Seeing the county results, it probably was solid republican territory up until the 1990s, but as Jfern notes it has since become almost as democratic as the rest of the State. On the opposite side, there's a good chance NorCal voted for the Democratic candidate in 1960, 1968, 1976 and 1988.
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2014, 03:43:45 PM »

I'm guessing this is due to demographic shifts:  Northern California was already quite liberal to begin with, while Southern California the John Wayne/Bob Dornan type conservatives have died off or left the state.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2014, 04:04:47 PM »

San Diego does have a major military base, which helps make the region a bit more Republican than it likely otherwise would be.
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jfern
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« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2014, 12:27:39 AM »

San Diego does have a major military base, which helps make the region a bit more Republican than it likely otherwise would be.

OK, but one military base does not determine how an area of 23 million people votes. The cities of Oakland and SF had military bases a couple of decades ago, and you can see how they vote.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #105 on: July 24, 2014, 12:26:55 AM »

An actual useful 2016 initiative would be one to abolish the California state senate. I'm really surprised that hasn't passed recently in any initiative state considering the popular support there is for things like term limits.

Nebraska doesn't count because they got rid of the lower house Tongue
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #106 on: July 24, 2014, 12:34:07 AM »

The sorts of voters likely to vote in initiatives generally tend to be skew towards those distrustful of government.  A bicameral legislature by its very nature makes passing laws more difficult, which is exactly what those who distrust government should favor.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #107 on: July 24, 2014, 12:43:49 AM »

I'm watching the guy behind this referendum on Colbert right now and he comes across as a complete idiot.
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greenforest32
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« Reply #108 on: July 24, 2014, 12:52:04 AM »

The sorts of voters likely to vote in initiatives generally tend to be skew towards those distrustful of government.  A bicameral legislature by its very nature makes passing laws more difficult, which is exactly what those who distrust government should favor.

Turn-out would be pretty good if it was a normal initiative synced with the general election. California recently changed its law so there's no more initiatives in primaries for that reason.

I'd definitely be curious to see how it played out; I don't think it's been tried in any state since Reynolds v. Sims changed the base of representation for all state senates. Especially in a state where Democrats have such big super-majorities. Even some conservatives could support abolition if they see it as working against them (another chamber they have to win). Kind of like how the Oklahoma state senate recently passed the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
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sparkey
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« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2014, 11:02:49 AM »

Are the locations of the state capitals part of the proposal? I haven't seen them listed anywhere. I suppose they could be sorted out later. My best guesses would be:

Central California: Fresno
Jefferson: Redding (I doubt Yreka would get it, even though that's the traditional location)
North California: Sacramento
Silicon Valley: San Jose (or San Francisco? or Oakland? could be a battle--maybe there's a compromise somewhere, like Fremont or something)
South California: San Diego
West California: Los Angeles (or maybe something more central? maybe Ventura?)
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sparkey
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« Reply #110 on: July 25, 2014, 11:55:18 AM »

Another interesting question is how the major public universities would be renamed. Some thoughts:

Jefferson
"University of Jefferson" and "Jefferson State" would be up for grabs between Chico and Humboldt. I'm guessing that Chico, as the older institution, gets "University of Jefferson," and Humboldt takes "Jefferson State."

Central California
This one is tricky because there may be a battle over "University of Central California" between Fresno State and UC Merced. The most obvious solution, to keep Fresno State as Fresno State and change UC Merced to UCC Merced, would probably be blocked by Fresno State (the more powerful of the two institutions), because it would give Merced unfettered access to the "University of Central California" title. Fresno State could flex its muscles and become the "University of Central California" while Merced becomes "Central California Tech" or something, with Stanislaus and/or Bakersfield taking "Central California State." Either that or Fresno and Merced have to share "University of Central California."

North California
Davis obviously takes "University of North California." Sonoma and Sacramento probably share "North California State."

Silicon Valley
This one is tricky because UC Berkeley, with so much invested into being "Cal," probably wouldn't want to become the "University of Silicon Valley." My guess is that it just takes "University of California" because nobody else has it, and besides, it's still within Greater California. That would leave Santa Cruz and San Francisco to share "University of Silicon Valley" and the local CSUs to share "Silicon Valley State" (although San Jose State would have a good claim on being the Silicon Valley State University).

South California
I doubt any of the institutions would want to be "USC" anything, considering that there already is a private USC (in West California!). A possibility is that they go with city names: University of Irvine and University of Riverside work, although UC San Diego may have to get creative, since there is already a private "University of San Diego." Maybe "San Diego Research University." The local CSUs would probably follow a city/state pattern: San Diego State, San Bernardino State, etc., although San Diego State may try to take "South California State."

West California
Another tricky one because there is so much invested into the "UCLA" brand. I doubt UCLA wants to be the "University of West California." UCSB may take that name, but for UCLA, I bet it tries to keep the "UCLA" brand by either not changing their name, or changing it to "University Consortium of Los Angeles" or something like that that. The CSUs could follow a city/state pattern, except for the Cal Polys, which may change to become the West Cal Polys.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #111 on: July 26, 2014, 11:10:01 AM »

The sorts of voters likely to vote in initiatives generally tend to be skew towards those distrustful of government.  A bicameral legislature by its very nature makes passing laws more difficult, which is exactly what those who distrust government should favor.

I don't think that's the reason. The primary reason is that that kind of proposal would almost certainly have to be a citizen-initiated amendment. Politicians aren't really keen on giving up their jobs. In other words, if there's a serious proposal to adopt a unicameral legislature, it almost assuredly would not be coming form said legislature. Voters may be distrustful of government, but they also want a government that functions. California has a functioning government now, with a Democratic Governor and supermajorities in the Legislature. If it goes back to the gridlock and dysfunction of before, I wouldn't rule out serious governmental reforms. Personally, I think California would be far better off with a 120-member unicameral legislature (combining the current 80-seat Assembly and 40-seat Senate, although elected in 120 districts).
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #112 on: July 26, 2014, 05:46:21 PM »

A State as big as California should have at least 300 representatives in its lower House.
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Harry
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« Reply #113 on: July 26, 2014, 09:52:24 PM »

Are these awful names set it stone? Surely they can do better than just a directional California name...

Not that I'd vote for this anyway, but the names would be enough for me to vote No if I otherwise liked it.
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muon2
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« Reply #114 on: July 26, 2014, 11:33:58 PM »

Are these awful names set it stone? Surely they can do better than just a directional California name...

Not that I'd vote for this anyway, but the names would be enough for me to vote No if I otherwise liked it.

I tend to agree, but I suspect there are electoral considerations at work. Picking a name other than a bland direction is more likely to lose votes than to gain them.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #115 on: July 26, 2014, 11:41:41 PM »

Are these awful names set it stone? Surely they can do better than just a directional California name...

Not that I'd vote for this anyway, but the names would be enough for me to vote No if I otherwise liked it.

I tend to agree, but I suspect there are electoral considerations at work. Picking a name other than a bland direction is more likely to lose votes than to gain them.

Makes me think: every once in a while your state gets silly proposals to split off Chicagoland from the rest of Illinois.  What would those states be called in such a proposal?  Chicagoland and Illinois?  Presumably people in Chicago would be upset about the rest of the state keeping that name.
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jfern
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« Reply #116 on: July 27, 2014, 01:22:00 AM »
« Edited: July 27, 2014, 01:26:32 AM by ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ »

Are these awful names set it stone? Surely they can do better than just a directional California name...

Not that I'd vote for this anyway, but the names would be enough for me to vote No if I otherwise liked it.

I tend to agree, but I suspect there are electoral considerations at work. Picking a name other than a bland direction is more likely to lose votes than to gain them.

Silicon Valley isn't a direction, and I think Monterey, San Francisco, and Antioch will agree that they're not silicon valley.

None of the 3 UCs in "Silicon Valley" (Berkeley, San Francisco, and Santa Cruz) are actually in silicon valley. Silicon Valley generally means Santa Clara county, Fremont, Palo Alto, and Redwood City.
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muon2
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« Reply #117 on: July 27, 2014, 08:05:28 AM »

Are these awful names set it stone? Surely they can do better than just a directional California name...

Not that I'd vote for this anyway, but the names would be enough for me to vote No if I otherwise liked it.

I tend to agree, but I suspect there are electoral considerations at work. Picking a name other than a bland direction is more likely to lose votes than to gain them.

Silicon Valley isn't a direction, and I think Monterey, San Francisco, and Antioch will agree that they're not silicon valley.

None of the 3 UCs in "Silicon Valley" (Berkeley, San Francisco, and Santa Cruz) are actually in silicon valley. Silicon Valley generally means Santa Clara county, Fremont, Palo Alto, and Redwood City.

Good point, but in SF (and the other locales you mention) will the choice of Silicon Valley as a name move votes more one way or the other?
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #118 on: July 27, 2014, 12:30:10 PM »

'Silicon Valley' is on every relevant level--aesthetically, historically, politically, geographically--an absolutely horrendous name for a state, but I wouldn't be shocked--surprised, but not shocked--if the tech subculture has bred enough philistinism for people there to think otherwise. I doubt, however, that that would extend further up the Bay Area.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #119 on: July 27, 2014, 12:43:07 PM »

It's worth noting that nobody ever uses "Silicon Valley" as a geographical designation. The Santa Clara Valley is without exception referred to as the South Bay.
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Sbane
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« Reply #120 on: July 28, 2014, 03:41:14 PM »

It's worth noting that nobody ever uses "Silicon Valley" as a geographical designation. The Santa Clara Valley is without exception referred to as the South Bay.

Yeah, I have rarely heard anyone say "Silicon Valley" over South Bay.

Nathan, no need to worry. I doubt even a majority of South Bay residents would be in favor if the name "silicon valley" if the Bay Area becomes a state. Especially since there is such an obvious name already....
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Simfan34
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« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2014, 12:44:59 PM »
« Edited: July 29, 2014, 12:47:50 PM by Simfan34 »

At least it's less cringeworthy than the imitators who coin similar terms to describe invented regions that are used exclusively to market to tech companies (e.g. "Silicon Alley" in NYC, "Tech Valley" to describe eastern Upstate NY).

At least Silicon Alley is mildly clever. But yes, the idea a state that extends as far south as Monterrey could possibly be called "Silicon Valley" is silly. I'm not Californian but the idea of splitting LA from SoCal makes me cringe, it seems so illogical.

The most "sensible" split would be a NoCal/SoCal split along the 36th parallel.
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King
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« Reply #122 on: July 29, 2014, 12:49:44 PM »

They can call it Valle Silicio
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #123 on: July 29, 2014, 01:10:20 PM »

At least it's less cringeworthy than the imitators who coin similar terms to describe invented regions that are used exclusively to market to tech companies (e.g. "Silicon Alley" in NYC, "Tech Valley" to describe eastern Upstate NY).

At least Silicon Alley is mildly clever. But yes, the idea a state that extends as far south as Monterrey could possibly be called "Silicon Valley" is silly. I'm not Californian but the idea of splitting LA from SoCal makes me cringe, it seems so illogical.

The most "sensible" split would be a NoCal/SoCal split along the 36th parallel.

Fortunately it's only Monterey. A state that extended to Monterrey would really be something.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #124 on: July 29, 2014, 01:19:17 PM »

Yes, it would. Tongue Provided it wasn't Texas, that wouldn't be so strange.

And now I know they're spelled differently. I should have known this sooner.
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