NE2: Sound Money Act (Failed)
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  NE2: Sound Money Act (Failed)
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Author Topic: NE2: Sound Money Act (Failed)  (Read 952 times)
cinyc
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« on: March 06, 2014, 04:28:13 PM »
« edited: March 10, 2014, 07:04:16 PM by cinyc »

Sound Money Act
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Sponsor: Rep. Deus naturae

Debate on this bill will remain open for 72 hours, or until around 4:30PM on Sunday, March 9, unless modified or extended.  The sponsor, Rep. Deus, is encouraged to speak on behalf of the bill within the next 36 hours.  If he does not, because there is no legislation pending in the queue, there will be no penalty.

The floor is open for debate.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 05:45:37 PM »

There's no way I am supporting this, sorry. This is an economic disaster if passed.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2014, 05:48:04 PM »

There's no way I am supporting this, sorry. This is an economic disaster if passed.

I'm under the assumption that this is a joke bill, written during an empty queue.  Irregardless, no chance of actual passage.
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cinyc
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2014, 05:59:28 PM »

I'm not sure that the bill, particularly section 3, is even constitutional.

Article I, Section 7, Clause 2 of the Third Atlasian Constitution states:

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Section 3 of the proposed Sound Money Act arguably makes commodities and substances legal tender currency for payment of Northeast government debts.  It depends on how you define "currency" and "legal tender", but an argument can be made that allowing someone to use something other than Atlasian Dollars to pay a regional government debt is the creation of a legal tender currency for all debts of the Northeast government.  The counterargument is that although we are allowing the debt to be paid in something other than the Atlasian dollar, the amount of the other thing to pay the debt is pegged to the dollar, but I wouldn't want to chance a lawsuit that we'd probably lose.  

The Southeast lost a lawsuit back in 2009 when they tried to issue their own "dixie" currency pegged to gold.  That case was under the Second Atlasian Constitution, but I think the relevant provisions are identical.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 06:00:41 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A transition to alternative currency (gold in the case of this bill, but that could be changed if anyone has any other suggestions) is necessary to avert the oncoming monetary collapse as a result of destructive  Federal Reserve policy. While we can't force people to stop using paper money, we can encourage them to do so by using gold for our our own transactions, and accepting it as a valid payment.

That said, I know the first two sections have no chance of passing. What I would like to know is whether or not any other Representatives would be open to passing section 3, or a modified form of it. I do believe that Northeast citizens should be able to use alternative currencies/commodities to pay taxes, debts, etc. and it is only fair that we allow them to do so.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 06:07:13 PM »

Ah.. that clause is unfortunate. Cinyc, do you think it would be constitutional to accept alternative forms of payment as valid for interest on government loans and taxes?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 06:09:30 PM »

I'm not sure that the bill, particularly section 3, is even constitutional.

Article I, Section 7, Clause 2 of the Third Atlasian Constitution states:

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Section 3 of the proposed Sound Money Act arguably makes commodities and substances legal tender currency for payment of Northeast government debts.  It depends on how you define "currency" and "legal tender", but an argument can be made that allowing someone to use something other than Atlasian Dollars to pay a regional government debt is the creation of a legal tender currency for all debts of the Northeast government.  The counterargument is that although we are allowing the debt to be paid in something other than the Atlasian dollar, the amount of the other thing to pay the debt is pegged to the dollar, but I wouldn't want to chance a lawsuit that we'd probably lose.  

The Southeast lost a lawsuit back in 2009 when they tried to issue their own "dixie" currency pegged to gold.  That case was under the Second Atlasian Constitution, but I think the relevant provisions are identical.

That's funny. The IDS lost a lawsuit based on a currency known as the Dibble right around the time I became President.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 06:11:26 PM »

Ah.. that clause is unfortunate. Cinyc, do you think it would be constitutional to accept alternative forms of payment as valid for interest on government loans and taxes?

Why would that be necessary? The more desirable outcome would be for those people to trade their goods for fair market value and pay the interest with cash.
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cinyc
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 06:49:24 PM »

Ah.. that clause is unfortunate. Cinyc, do you think it would be constitutional to accept alternative forms of payment as valid for interest on government loans and taxes?

We could probably pay interest in whatever currency or commodity we want, as there is no limitation on how we pay interest on our debt.  But why would we want to denominate our debt in any currency other than the one we take in - Atlasian dollars?  And why would our debtholders want to be paid in something other than Atlasian dollars, anyway?
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SWE
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 06:53:29 PM »

I can't support the bill. Besides, the economic harm it would cause, it's doubtful that it's even constitutional
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2014, 06:22:30 PM »

What about bitcoin as a compromise? Tongue

On a more serious note, the IDS did something similar a few years ago. I don't think I can sign this.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2014, 10:39:03 PM »

Didn't the price of gold crash last year? Shouldn't we consider backing our currency with something more dependable? Say, beryllium?

I don't know if it did or not, JJ stopped posting.
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cinyc
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2014, 08:17:53 PM »

The debate period is over.  Seeing no motion to extend debate or amendments, it is time to vote on the bill as originally drafted:

Sound Money Act
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This vote shall remain open for the earlier of 48 hours or when all Representatives have voted.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2014, 08:18:20 PM »

NAY
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cinyc
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2014, 08:18:26 PM »

Nay
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2014, 08:19:47 PM »

Since when is Simfan a Representative?
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Simfan34
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2014, 08:20:19 PM »

I look forwards to our Region's whisky and cocaine-based economy if this bill is to pass.

Since when is Simfan a Representative?


I have twice been elected by The People of this region in the last two elections, Mr. Governor. As your predecessor granted me citizenship, my election carried full legal validity. I am simply now in a position to participate.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2014, 08:23:47 PM »

Aye
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Napoleon
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2014, 08:24:52 PM »

Nay

Simfan, your trolling still sucks.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2014, 08:25:25 PM »

I look forwards to our Region's whisky and cocaine-based economy if this bill is to pass.

Since when is Simfan a Representative?


I have twice been elected by The People of this region in the last two elections, Mr. Governor. As your predecessor granted me citizenship, my election carried full legal validity. I am simply now in a position to participate.

Even if all of that were true, you were not elected to this session.
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cinyc
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2014, 08:27:24 PM »

I look forwards to our Region's whisky and cocaine-based economy if this bill is to pass.

Since when is Simfan a Representative?


I have twice been elected by The People of this region in the last two elections, Mr. Governor. As your predecessor granted me citizenship, my election carried full legal validity. I am simply now in a position to participate.

You weren't elected in the February elections.  Therefore, you are not currently a Representative.  I don't think you can run in the upcoming special election because you were taken off the voter rolls when you were banned and you will not have been a Northeast registered voter for at least 7 days as of 12 midnight Thursday when the election begins.  So you are not a Northeast Representative.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2014, 08:30:05 PM »

I look forwards to our Region's whisky and cocaine-based economy if this bill is to pass.

Since when is Simfan a Representative?


I have twice been elected by The People of this region in the last two elections, Mr. Governor. As your predecessor granted me citizenship, my election carried full legal validity. I am simply now in a position to participate.

You weren't elected in the February elections.  Therefore, you are not currently a Representative.  I don't think you can run in the upcoming special election because you were taken off the voter rolls when you were banned and you will not have been a Northeast registered voter for at least 7 days as of 12 midnight Thursday when the election begins.  So you are not a Northeast Representative.

Very well, I am not an Assemblyman. However, as per the provisions  of F.L. 36-14 (De-registration of Banned Members Act), I am allowed to re-assume my prior registration with the full status I had prior. I did not know there was a special election, but I will run. Smiley
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SWE
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« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2014, 08:33:29 PM »

Nay
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Dallasfan65
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2014, 08:39:43 PM »

I look forwards to our Region's whisky and cocaine-based economy if this bill is to pass.

Since when is Simfan a Representative?


I have twice been elected by The People of this region in the last two elections, Mr. Governor. As your predecessor granted me citizenship, my election carried full legal validity. I am simply now in a position to participate.

You weren't elected in the February elections.  Therefore, you are not currently a Representative.  I don't think you can run in the upcoming special election because you were taken off the voter rolls when you were banned and you will not have been a Northeast registered voter for at least 7 days as of 12 midnight Thursday when the election begins.  So you are not a Northeast Representative.

Very well, I am not an Assemblyman. However, as per the provisions  of F.L. 36-14 (De-registration of Banned Members Act), I am allowed to re-assume my prior registration with the full status I had prior. I did not know there was a special election, but I will run. Smiley

And you deleted the post where you moved to California?
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cinyc
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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2014, 08:40:45 PM »

I look forwards to our Region's whisky and cocaine-based economy if this bill is to pass.

Since when is Simfan a Representative?


I have twice been elected by The People of this region in the last two elections, Mr. Governor. As your predecessor granted me citizenship, my election carried full legal validity. I am simply now in a position to participate.

You weren't elected in the February elections.  Therefore, you are not currently a Representative.  I don't think you can run in the upcoming special election because you were taken off the voter rolls when you were banned and you will not have been a Northeast registered voter for at least 7 days as of 12 midnight Thursday when the election begins.  So you are not a Northeast Representative.

Very well, I am not an Assemblyman. However, as per the provisions  of F.L. 36-14 (De-registration of Banned Members Act), I am allowed to re-assume my prior registration with the full status I had prior. I did not know there was a special election, but I will run. Smiley

That's not what F.L. 36-14 says.  F.L. 36-14 only says that you are allowed to re-register in Atlasia.  It does not say that you re-assume a prior registration. 

So, like when Adam Griffin reregistered to come back to Atlasia after an absence and tried to run in a special election that was being held within 7 days of his coming back to Atlasia, you aren't eligible to run or vote in the election under Article V, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Federal Constitution.  We recently had a case in the Northeast about this.
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