HuffPo hates the South (with maps)
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  HuffPo hates the South (with maps)
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Author Topic: HuffPo hates the South (with maps)  (Read 5162 times)
DC Al Fine
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2014, 04:25:44 PM »

I did a little digging and was depressed to find that my region is comparable to the south in many respects Sad

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pbrower2a
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2014, 10:01:22 PM »

Wrong title. Should be "Facts hate the South (with maps)".

No, facts expose the South.

I might refer people to the thread "Is Connecticut the Best State in which to Live?" Low levels of education and bad health habits (like smoking and obesity) give objective evidence of the nastiness of life in most Southern states.

Even if one discounts the effects of income one can use statewide credit scores to establish how easy it is to get into economic hardship in some places. Bad credit scores on a statewide level do not so much reflect profligacy with credit so much as they reflect the likeliness of people getting unpayable bills. 
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2014, 11:33:22 PM »

This is the direct result of the sinister political agenda the GOP has adopted since, oh I don't know, 1968 or thereabouts. 
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Harry
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2014, 12:20:22 AM »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2014, 07:27:22 AM »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.

I doubt that's the cause. My part of the country is an underdeveloped craphole with many of the same problems as the South (except race). We keep electing governments significantly to the left of the Democrats... yet somehow, we're still an underdeveloped craphole.
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windjammer
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« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2014, 07:33:12 AM »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.
Harry, don't be so pessimistic! Mississippi will soon become a red state!
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ComradeCarter
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« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2014, 07:45:52 AM »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.

I doubt that's the cause. My part of the country is an underdeveloped craphole with many of the same problems as the South (except race). We keep electing governments significantly to the left of the Democrats... yet somehow, we're still an underdeveloped craphole.

It's almost as though the politics of an area don't determine its overall well-being.
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King
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« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2014, 09:40:40 AM »

It's all the Negros' fault,  you see.
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Franknburger
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« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2014, 10:35:33 AM »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.

I doubt that's the cause. My part of the country is an underdeveloped craphole with many of the same problems as the South (except race). We keep electing governments significantly to the left of the Democrats... yet somehow, we're still an underdeveloped craphole.
Can't judge on the craphole part, but geographical conditions and situation seem less conducive to development than across many Southern states.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2014, 11:19:24 AM »

Well, this thread turned into exactly what one would expect.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2014, 03:23:58 PM »

Well, this thread turned into exactly what one would expect.

Then perhaps we should do something unexpected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI
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Harry
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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2014, 03:57:52 PM »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.

I doubt that's the cause. My part of the country is an underdeveloped craphole with many of the same problems as the South (except race). We keep electing governments significantly to the left of the Democrats... yet somehow, we're still an underdeveloped craphole.

If you're saying that Mississippi is as well off as Nova Scotia, all I can say is thanks.  I really wish that were true.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2014, 04:02:07 PM »
« Edited: March 13, 2014, 12:54:42 PM by HagridOfTheDeep »

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.

I doubt that's the cause. My part of the country is an underdeveloped craphole with many of the same problems as the South (except race). We keep electing governments significantly to the left of the Democrats... yet somehow, we're still an underdeveloped craphole.

If you're saying that Mississippi is as well off as Nova Scotia, all I can say is thanks.  I really wish that were true.

Go to Cape Breton.
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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2014, 04:04:44 PM »

What statistics specifically are you thinking of, DC Al Fine? Many of the ones at the link are fairly US-centric measures.
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King
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2014, 05:03:01 PM »


Cape Breton's median income would make it one of the 10th wealthiest cities in Mississippi.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2014, 07:49:41 PM »

What statistics specifically are you thinking of, DC Al Fine? Many of the ones at the link are fairly US-centric measures.

Yes that's true. Refusing Obamacare funding doesn't really apply here Tongue

The one that stuck out for me in the Huffington Post article was obesity because ours is comparable to the South. As for a general case, Atlantic Canada has high unemployment rates, low wages, and our governments are only able to sustain themselves due to massive transfers from the federal government. The federal government subsidizes us via transfer payments, locating large numbers of civil service jobs, military bases etc in the region, and making it easier to go on pogey compared to other regions.

For example Cape Breton and rural Newfoundland spent much of the past few decades with unemployment rates over 20%.


Cape Breton's median income would make it one of the 10th wealthiest cities in Mississippi.

Yes in a currency that's worth 90% of the USD, and unadjusted for the cost of living. I doubt Mississippians are paying $9/gal for milk or $5.25/gal for gas

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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2014, 08:24:34 PM »

OK, fair enough about the obesity rate.

I'm skeptical, though, of the idea that incomes need to be adjusted for "cost of living" to the advantage of the US. Sure, consumer goods tend to be more expensive (though your two examples are outliers due to supply management and gas taxes). But health care, education, etc., are much more expensive in the States.
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King
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« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2014, 08:39:18 PM »


Cape Breton's median income would make it one of the 10th wealthiest cities in Mississippi.

Yes in a currency that's worth 90% of the USD, and unadjusted for the cost of living. I doubt Mississippians are paying $9/gal for milk or $5.25/gal for gas



I accounted for the exchange rate. The Canadian dollar figure would be top 5.

Cost of living is a big deal, but a lot of the reason why American food/gas prices are so cheap is because of massive government subsidies on them.
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PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald
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« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2014, 08:46:04 PM »

OK, fair enough about the obesity rate.

I'm skeptical, though, of the idea that incomes need to be adjusted for "cost of living" to the advantage of the US. Sure, consumer goods tend to be more expensive (though your two examples are outliers due to supply management and gas taxes). But health care, education, etc., are much more expensive in the States.
I've been to parts of the South so backwards that Coke is still at its 1950s price.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2014, 09:12:46 PM »


Cape Breton's median income would make it one of the 10th wealthiest cities in Mississippi.

Yes in a currency that's worth 90% of the USD, and unadjusted for the cost of living. I doubt Mississippians are paying $9/gal for milk or $5.25/gal for gas



I accounted for the exchange rate. The Canadian dollar figure would be top 5.

Cost of living is a big deal, but a lot of the reason why American food/gas prices are so cheap is because of massive government subsidies on them.

Where are you getting your Mississippi numbers from?

Cape Breton Regional Municpality's median household income is about $41 500 CAD.

According to this wikipedia article. that would make the CAD # about tenth and the USD # would be right around the Mississippi median.

More to the point, even if Cape Breton or western Newfoundland are marginally better off than Mississippi, they are still well within the norm for the south, despite voting for significantly left wing governments.

Yet we keep electing the same right-wing governments we've been electing since Reconstruction ended. We do it to ourselves. Very frustrating.

I doubt that's the cause. My part of the country is an underdeveloped craphole with many of the same problems as the South (except race). We keep electing governments significantly to the left of the Democrats... yet somehow, we're still an underdeveloped craphole.

It's almost as though the politics of an area don't determine its overall well-being.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2014, 07:23:08 AM »

So pointing out basic realities that should be obvious to anyone who isn't a deluded hack is now considered a sign of "white liberal elitism"? TNF, I like you, but you're really making yourself an idiot here.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2014, 09:01:53 AM »

OK, fair enough about the obesity rate.

I'm skeptical, though, of the idea that incomes need to be adjusted for "cost of living" to the advantage of the US. Sure, consumer goods tend to be more expensive (though your two examples are outliers due to supply management and gas taxes). But health care, education, etc., are much more expensive in the States.

If people are getting a good deal from a high-tax, high-service government, then they are likely to continue to want such. If they are getting a good deal from a low-tax, low-service government, then they will want such to continue. Low-tax, high-service governments are impossible, and high-tax, low-service governments tend to undergo revolutionary upheavals.

In general the low-tax, low-service governments worldwide are to be found in Third World hell-holes. Such places generally have a few very rich people with others destitute. 
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2014, 09:09:56 AM »

This is the direct result of the sinister political agenda the GOP has adopted since, oh I don't know, 1968 or thereabouts. 

The GOP stands for big landowners, tycoons, and executives at the expense of everyone else on economics -- while pandering to ignorance and bigotry.
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AggregateDemand
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« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2014, 11:44:33 AM »

So pointing out basic realities that should be obvious to anyone who isn't a deluded hack is now considered a sign of "white liberal elitism"? TNF, I like you, but you're really making yourself an idiot here.

It's one thing to ignore the undertones of racism and political snark. It's another thing to deny they exist, and then refer to people as idiots, if they rebuff HuffPo's gratuitous hit piece.

When someone slams the South for high poverty rates and teen pregnancy, they are slamming the south for having higher African American and Hispanic populations. It's racist, but HuffPo can't help themselves.

Then HuffPo mocks the South for tobacco usage......in former tobacco colonies, where the industrial revolution never really took hold. Then they chide the South for refusing to accept Medicaid expansion, without explaining that Medicaid expansion requires the states to put up funds they they may not have.

But the best part is that they show a happiness map where Texas, Florida, and Georgia (3 most populace states in the South) are considerably happier than New York, Pennsylvania, and Ohio.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2014, 03:56:45 PM »

So pointing out basic realities that should be obvious to anyone who isn't a deluded hack is now considered a sign of "white liberal elitism"? TNF, I like you, but you're really making yourself an idiot here.

It's one thing to ignore the undertones of racism and political snark. It's another thing to deny they exist, and then refer to people as idiots, if they rebuff HuffPo's gratuitous hit piece.

When someone slams the South for high poverty rates and teen pregnancy, they are slamming the south for having higher African American and Hispanic populations. It's racist, but HuffPo can't help themselves.

White southerners do badly. In many years they scored worse in intelligence tests than Northern blacks. Something telling about the South -- it attracted very few immigrants when people from southern and eastern Europe were practically flooding America's northern cities. Just look where American Jews are as a surrogate for immigration. Nasty as Manhattan's garment district was a hundred years ago for crowding and poverty, Russian Jews found it far preferable to the places where the cotton for the garments was grown.

Italian and Polish immigrants preferred to go where the schools were strong -- often the parochial schools established by earlier Irish Catholics whose Catholic hierarchy was unwilling to establish any Catholic population as a permanent underclass. About forty years ago one could go to hick towns in Upstate New York and the Midwest, examine the phone book, and find lots of people with Italian or Polish surnames. Even to this day one finds large numbers of Hispanic immigrants relocating to the chilly Midwest. Adults will do horrible jobs but insist that their kids dedicate themselves to their studies.     

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Virginia and North Carolina used to be cancerweed country. That is over. Virginia is a rather good place to live by standards shown in the study, and North Carolina is poor, but not the worst of the worst. Cotton states do badly... and cotton growers are still powerful in several Southern states. Unlike tobacco, cotton is not a dying crop in America.

Those same Southern states built fine Interstate highways which require the States to buy the land and put up 10% of the cost, the federal government putting up 90%. Mississippi and Alabama have put much money into the building of Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham -- not to say that such is a bad investment.

But highways have very clear results in cost-benefit analysis. Real estate next to any rural long-distance freeway interchange skyrockets in value. Costs of transportation plummet. Improving personal health and nutrition isn't so obvious in cost-benefit analysis. It's harder to convince people that they would do better in life if they are healthier and better educated.  Besides, right-wing interests focus upon taxes instead of income.

But think of it -- malnutrition is harsh on productivity. A high percentage of high-school dropouts corresponds to high rates of violent crime. High use of tobacco correlates to heavy expenditures on medical care related to tobacco-related ailments. Even if it is not a question of Right or Left politics, Utah is toward the bottom in per capita income. But it does well in most measures of public health. It's an outlier on tobacco consumption because of the Mormon Church (lowest by far). Its high-school students graduate. Obesity is low (apparently the state has excellent recreational opportunities), and so is diabetes (low consumption of alcohol is a contributor). The violent-crime rate is low. In part because Utah does not spend so much money undoing the effects of smoking and pathological drinking the state can keep its taxes low. Contrast Tennessee. 

My liver and lungs would be normal in Utah even if I am not a Mormon. In most Southern states, I would end up paying for bad habits practically part of the culture.       

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Three tough places in which to live -- extremely urban places with bad weather.
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