SENATE BILL: Reforming Atlasian Public Health Act of 2014 (Debating)
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  SENATE BILL: Reforming Atlasian Public Health Act of 2014 (Debating)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Reforming Atlasian Public Health Act of 2014 (Debating)  (Read 4708 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2014, 07:42:26 PM »

The amendment has been adopted.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #76 on: April 10, 2014, 07:35:31 PM »

I hate to keep deferring stuff to later (compiling the current text), but I didn't expect Cincy to want to get ahead start on learning the ropes today so I lost time to that that I wasn't counting on.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2014, 04:26:29 PM »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2014, 04:30:08 PM »

The unconstitutional section on the unions is now gone and all Fritzcare references have been replaced with ANHC.

I recall some complaints about format as this relates to the present law (amended form passed in 2012). Could someone repost that concern so that it can be addressed.

We have also already established that the bill retains full coverage for preventative care. If there is an inconsistency later in the text, please draw attention to that so that we can address that concern as well.

Aside from that, remains the exact numbers we find acceptable for the various levels of support.  

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2014, 05:22:28 PM »

Also there is that billing issue with the present law that we amentioned on page three that needs to be resolved as well.


What is the status of Oakvale's group?

If that isn't going to produce a product in the near future I recommend proceeding with this and addressing those issues that have already come up.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2014, 05:24:25 PM »

Also there is that billing issue with the present law that we amentioned on page three that needs to be resolved as well.


What is the status of Oakvale's group?

If that isn't going to produce a product in the near future I recommend proceeding with this and addressing those issues that have already come up.

So far Riley and I have submitted our own proposals but the group has been inactive for a couple weeks because Oakvale is busy with real life stuff.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2014, 06:03:37 PM »

Then the debate should be shifted back to something that an acheive enough support to pass based off of this framework as the basic idea here has substantial support and at the right numbers, the administration as well most likely. I think 11 has to have less of as reduction as well as some increase in the coverage for that lowest income bracket for starters.

First off, lets fix the wording on the problem in the current statute concerning the billing issue. That will get us back to discussing the specifics of this proposal, particularly numbers and the various benefit changes as well.

I could have an amendment in a day or two, but we got nasty storms coming tomorrow.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2014, 07:36:08 PM »

I'm kind of extremely busy in real life at the moment (last few weeks of college + exams coming up) so unfortunately our little think tank has been idling. Please don't wait on our account, but given the apparent lack of support for the bill as it stands it may be worth bringing this to a vote and we can always try again shortly. Just my $0.02.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2014, 07:49:30 PM »

I can't claim to speak for anyone other than myself, but if I've given the impression that I agree with anything in this bill then I need to clarify that this is not the case.

As its original sponsor is gone and the Senate has made virtually no progress in improving it over the past month, I don't know why you'd want to waste more effort on it unless someone has an idea for a quick fix that can win the support of at least some Laborites.

It seems they all want a single payer system and there is no way I can support that and Duke has stated his opposition as well.

We pare this down, fix the billing issue and agree to a set of numbers, we have a chance at achieving something. But I don't see anything that group is discussing getting a consensus more or less having the support to get passed if it revolves around moving to a single payer system, either.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2014, 07:58:53 PM »

I would also point out that a lot of the lack of progress stemmed from slow processing of amendments under the previous Vice President as well and that tempered debate and made it take longer.

A lot of the complaints spouted at the beginning were either bs (removing coverage for preventative care) or are now irrelevant (union section and referneces to Fritzcare).
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2014, 08:09:15 PM »

Whether we move toward a single payer system or a more market-oriented one is beside the point. I was only indicating exactly what Oakvale said in the post following mine.

Which is what, exactly? That Labor doesn't support the bill, so it should be canned. Yet I got that on page one.

And so far I am not getting any concise criticisms of the core proposal save for appendages that can be removed (like the union thing) or other minor, vague, generic and otherwise meaningless sound bites more suited for a campaign add then a Senate debate. Now we got you saying there is nothing in this bill you support, which is cerainly a rather convient shift since the unnconstitutional complain is no longer valid, the Fritzcare references are gone, we have an active administrator of the thread and I offered to boost support and alter the numbers for the poor and so forth. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #86 on: April 14, 2014, 09:01:58 PM »

That is why I inserted the acronyme after the name of the program. I realize that you didn't but I think Scott and maybe NAppy did raise the naming issue.


1. As I have been saying, we can fix that by changing the wording of that particular clause, could you not?

2. As I have been asking for days for people to point out inconsistency, then fine, we can address that.

3. It would depend on the private market an to what extent that would cover people
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #87 on: April 14, 2014, 10:37:24 PM »

That is why I inserted the acronyme after the name of the program. I realize that you didn't but I think Scott and maybe NAppy did raise the naming issue.

Nappy raised the naming issue because Fritzcare is a vernacularism. That's one concern, but as far as making things functional is concerned, it's critical that we reference by name any prior law that we mean to change.
Again, but it is a question of form and I have been asking for format issues to be re posted so that they can be addressed.

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You could, but someone needs to do that. Any Senator who wants this to pass (and to work as intended) should be jumping at the opportunity.
I would assume finding an appropriate wording is discouraging attempts to some extent.


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I pointed out both of these inconsistencies weeks ago and they have only been ignored.

Not ignored, delayed as other items were addressed that were thne, as you are conviently forgetting, took longer as Matt's RL obligations weighed on his activity as VP. I asked that they be reposted now that we have a more efficient administration of the thread and can thus restart with where we left off and rather then rely on people to dig, I requested they be posted here towards the end so people would be more likely to jump in and take a plunge on an issue.

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Obviously. But you're proposing a reform and I'm asking: Why propose risk pooling in the first place? How will it work? What problem - in the context of Atlasian health care - is it supposed to solve?

MY response was garbled. I meant it depends on 1) to what extent the market is still covered by private insurance and 2) any other changes to the Fritzcare system, for instance a shift from a tax utility model to a subsidized premium model (still the same plan, just paid for differently), in the latter risk pooling would allow the government to provide insurance at a lower price to the bulk of the market. I do have concerns with the funding levels though like in clause 11, which I mentioned earlier.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2014, 10:45:25 PM »

For reference...

I'll quote my summary of the 2012 and 2009 bills as I understand them-

1. Since 2009, every Atlasian resident has been eligible for coverage under the Atlasion National Healthcare Program (a.k.a. "Fritzcare"), and all health care providers are required to cover Fritzcare enrollees.

2. Fritzcare is a comprehensive health care program (including elements of care that are often neglected IRL, such as mental, dental, and vision).

3. Existing government health care programs (Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare) have been abolished and rolled into Fritzcare.

4. Prior to 2012, copayments or deductibles on required benefits could not be billed to Fritzcare recipients.

5. Since 2012, the percentage of expenses covered by Fritzcare A) varies based on personal income and B) is capped at a percentage of household income. Preventive care remains free of charge to individuals.

6. HOWEVER, even after the reforms of 2012, "Licensed health care clinicians who accept any payment from the Atlasian National Health Care Program may not bill any patient for any covered service."

7. Fritzcare funding comes from A) former funding for Medicare and Medicaid, including the payroll tax; B) a progressive (by personal income) tax on health insurance benefits; and C) raising what the Medicare payroll tax (now called the "Health Care Payroll Tax") from 1.45% to 6.5%.

9. Public benefit corporations ("Community Health Partnerships") established in each region are responsible for administering Fritzcare.

8. Private health insurance may continue to exist, but health insurance companies must join an "Exchange."

#6 is the enormous, glaring problem.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2014, 11:00:56 PM »

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And you bitch about mean for not keeping things simple enough Nix. Instead of moanin about it for a month, you could have typed this up yourself and had someone offer it. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2014, 11:03:11 PM »

I have also had this distinct feeling of deja vu regarding the whole issue as well meaning this might not even be necessary.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #91 on: April 14, 2014, 11:07:30 PM »

Beep, I never offered that amendment Cincy. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #92 on: April 14, 2014, 11:07:53 PM »

I want Nixy baby to look it over first.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #93 on: April 14, 2014, 11:09:06 PM »


You can't just "keep things simple", Jeez.  Sad
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #94 on: April 14, 2014, 11:10:59 PM »


You can't just "keep things simple", Jeez.  Sad

Actually, it is really simple. If an amendment is to be procees, I demand that the intent be expressly giving. "Amendment offered/proposed" should thus appear in the quote quote box or above the amendment. It helps resolve differences before we get trapped by process and vote and lose three days on an amendment no one wants.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2014, 11:14:03 PM »

As recently as last year amendment votes were five days long not three, so it was especially essential that if a vote could be avoided, it was worth a day or so to clear up wording issues and minor differences.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2014, 11:22:53 PM »

Thanks, Yankee. I'll want to take another look at the 2012 law tomorrow, but your proposed amendment seems to resolve the problem.

As for why I didn't bother doing it myself: Writing amendments is for Senators! Especially those who want the bill in question to pass.



This is the people's Senate, Senator Nix, and I am more then wiling to offer amendments for non Senators just like I offer bills for people who are non Senators. Tongue

I mean it is just ridiculous to think the person raising the complaint might not want first dibs at ensuring it is properly resolved. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #97 on: April 15, 2014, 08:45:45 PM »

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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #98 on: April 15, 2014, 08:59:49 PM »

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Feedback:  Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2014, 07:37:10 PM »

Cincy, you wann call that as adopted man? Smiley

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