NE1: Amendment to the Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act (Law)

[cinyc]

End Social Engineering Act

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Sponsor: Rep. Deus naturae.

Debate on this bill shall remain open for 72 hours, or until around 9:30PM on March 20, unless modified or extended.  The sponsor, Rep. Deus, is encouraged to speak on behalf of the bill within the next 36 hours.  If he does not, the bill will be tabled, as there is other proposed legislation in the queue.

The floor is open for debate.

[cinyc]

The Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act states:

The Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act

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[Deus Naturae]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before I advocate for this bill, I would like know to whether or not the Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act of 2013 could be de facto repealed via a budget amendment in the same manner that Sirnick recently informed the Northeast healthy Skin Act could be.

[cinyc]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before I advocate for this bill, I would like know to whether or not the Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act of 2013 could be de facto repealed via a budget amendment in the same manner that Sirnick recently informed the Northeast healthy Skin Act could be.

I have no idea.  It isn't a tax with a separate line item in the budget, but a tax subsidy for favored behavior.

[sentinel]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before I advocate for this bill, I would like know to whether or not the Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act of 2013 could be de facto repealed via a budget amendment in the same manner that Sirnick recently informed the Northeast healthy Skin Act could be.

I have no idea.  It isn't a tax with a separate line item in the budget, but a tax subsidy for favored behavior.

Woah, woah woah.

First of all, I will vote against any attempt to repeal this bill. We debated this bill and worked hard on it in the previous sessions of the Assembly. This was a signature piece of legislation from my time as Governor.

Second of all, I'm getting kind of tired with the sponsor offering up bills to repealed that he clearly didn't read or doesn't understand. The sponsor is asking us to explain the bill after he asked for it to be repealed, and he had two bills tabled in one night already. The Northeast Assembly thread can be used for some level of discussion before you ask for everything and its mother to be repealed. Heck, it would save the Speaker some time too.

Third, to respond to the question:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before I advocate for this bill, I would like know to whether or not the Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act of 2013 could be de facto repealed via a budget amendment in the same manner that Sirnick recently informed the Northeast healthy Skin Act could be.

I have no idea.  It isn't a tax with a separate line item in the budget, but a tax subsidy for favored behavior.

You can repeal anything in a rider on the budget, its a matter of it passing, however; you can't just remove the line item without simultaneously repealing that part of the legislation (aka the need for the rider).

When we had a rider on a previous budget, we had established complete funding for public colleges/universities in one bill --and another bill simultaneously gave colleges/universities some levelof funding (we didn't need two bills doing the same job...well not the same exactly but you get the idea) so it was repealed in the budget when I noticed that (this was a pure fix).

Anyway, back to this bill. The Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act gives incentives for employers and employees to work at venues that sell quality food. No one is being forced into this --this bill establishes voluntary standards. In fact, Federalist Senator Goldwater voted for this bill as well as the more liberal members of the Assembly.

Repealing this bill would not only be a step backwards, but it would hurt businesses that are currently in the process of complying with the bill. People need to trust that the Northeast government isn't going to pass a bill then repeal it 5 minutes later (as seems to a pattern as of late).

[sentinel]

I'd also like to add --how is this social engineering? The health of the country is in the national interest. That's why we require children to get vaccinated, thats why we quarantine the severely ill, that is why we have standards for food, drugs, medicine, roads, cars, airplanes, trains -- everything! And this one, isn't even mandatory but we'd like to give people an incentive for what the Department of Agriculture, under the guidelines in this bill, determines as healthy. This bill even requires the Department of Commerce to have a say in the creation of these guidelines!

In addition, I even crafted the bill so local laws remain very powerful! "Any business receiving a failing grade from a municipal agency charged with health inspections shall not be eligible for the tax cut."

[Deus Naturae]

Sirnick, I will respond to your arguments later, but for now let me say that I do understand what the bill does. I was just uncertain if we could eliminate a tax credit that was created by a separate piece of legislation via a budget amendment. Thank you for clarifying that.

[Napoleon]

I'm going to go ahead and junp in with my two cents.

First of all, I'm not totally impressed by this law but I do not see a reason why it should be repealed. Sirnick, I understandthat it can be frustrating to see your "legacy" under assault. I don't think it is but as someone who has been around in multiple offices and passed things or whatever I understand the sentiment and perhaps at times share it.

I also think Rep Deus has a tendency to propose repeals of laws he does not like. While in most cases I think he is wrong, he has a good attitude about it. The queue was empty and he gave us things to debate. He is willing to engage on the issues and compromise- you all weren't around when wormyguy was running the show, clearly. And there's nothing wrong with an opportunity to review and possibly refresh our laws. After all, if the Representative gets too crazy we can vote them down (or him out). But honestly this is the best Assembly I have worked with in my time here- including my two terms and then my term as Governor. The activity is truly commendable and we have an interesting selection of viewpoints so that any two or three Reps may be in agreement at any time. Thats cool.

[sentinel]

While I see Napoleon's point, and I might have been a little too heated, its absurd that every bill is a full repeal from the start. Instead of the initial attitude being "fix it" the motto seems more like "repeal it."

On a different note, I don't remember or wasn't around when Wormyguy was around --but I do remember Butafly going on a repealing spree and then trying to legalize bestiality.

[Napoleon]

While I see Napoleon's point, and I might have been a little too heated, its absurd that every bill is a full repeal from the start. Instead of the initial attitude being "fix it" the motto seems more like "repeal it."

On a different note, I don't remember or wasn't around when Wormyguy was around --but I do remember Butafly going on a repealing spree and then trying to legalize bestiality.

I like it actually because it means we can debate. If I kept churning out awesome bills that everyone agreed with, we would rubber stamp them and miss out on the debate aspects. I really enjoy arguing with people (Just in this context)

[Deus Naturae]

Now, to respond to Sirnick, I consider this law to be an example of social engineering because it uses taxation, a power granted by the People to the State with the intent of serving as a means of revenue collection in order to serve the People, and using it as a means to attempt to alter the lifestyles and habits of individuals. In this case, the law in question provides special tax credits for people who happen to be in the business of selling foods that regional bureaucrats deem proper eating for the citizens of the Northeast.

Not only does this law violate the relationship of the average Northeast citizen to the regional government by daring to use the powers of government to control his/her lifestyle, but it has the nerve to do so by shifting the tax burden on to him/her. Not just owners, but also every single employee who has the dumb luck to be employed in the "healthy food" industry gets a 1% income tax cut, which represents a considerable share of their regional tax burden. Meanwhile, the average citizen gets no relief. I urge the Assembly to vote to repeal this unfair piece of legislation.

[sentinel]

Governments across the globe offer incentives via tax credits to businesses and individuals all the time. You act like this is something contrived in the dungeons of Mordor. Tax credits are used to help people afford homes, to help people afford health care - - and this time it's being used to promote high quality food. Obesity is a national security risk - I'm not Bloomberg but we should at least promote standarda that we can build a consensus around. Voluntary standards might I add.

[Deus Naturae]

Where do the other Representatives stand on this?

[cinyc]

Where do the other Representatives stand on this?

I reluctantly support the bill.  I think the original bill is poorly drafted, leaving too much leeway to the Department of Agriculture, and think the tax subsidy is too high for something that the Northeast probably shouldn't be involved in subsidizing in the first place.

But I'm on the losing side of every vote, so you shouldn't be happy about my support.

[SWE]

I'm going to have to oppose this bill. The Healthy Strong Act is a voluntary incentive to encourage higher nutritional and food safety standards. It is by no means "social engineering". I see no reason to throw out this law.

[Deus Naturae]

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Here is my reasoning:

First of all, the employee tax credit makes no sense. Employees have no say in what foods their employers choose to sell. It makes no sense to create a tax credit with the goal of "incentivizing" the credit's beneficiaries to do something that they have no power to do.

I reduced the income tax cut to 0.5% because either way the cut represents a substantial portion of an individual's regional tax burden.

I got rid of the producer tax credit for two reasons. First, because I seriously doubt that there is any danger of a healthy food shortage with or without a special tax credit, and second, because this bill already implicitly benefits healthy food producers by increasing demand for healthy foods.

[Deus Naturae]

Motion to extend debate by thirty minutes.

Sirnick, what was originally meant by "owner?" What about large corporations with shareholders? What if the owner resides in a different region?

[cinyc]

Motion granted.  I'll close debate around 10PM.

[cinyc]

The debate period is over.  It is now time to vote on the bill, as amended:

Amendment to the Healthy Northeast is a Strong Northeast Act

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This vote will remain open for the earlier of 48 hours or when all Representatives have voted.

[cinyc]

Aye

[Deus Naturae]

Aye

[Napoleon]

Aye

[sentinel]

5% reduction? That eliminates the income tax.

NAY

Edit: We need to stop with the strikeouts, it makes it harder to read not easier. Apparently the dot was not striked.

[SWE]

Nay

[cinyc]

By a 3-2 vote, the bill passes and goes to the governor's desk for his signature or veto.