The Russian Annexation of Crimea

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Crimea is for all intents and purposes Russian and the 1954 transfer to the Ukrainian SSR was a mistake, though I disapprove of how Russia pursued this annexation.

I wonder how many No voters support Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. It seems that self-determination only matters when you support the group which wants it.

It's really time for you to show some respect and shut up with your trolling. It was never smart nor funny, but at the point where we are now and people are beginning to die you should really take a step back.

I understand that this is remote for most of you American teenagers but I have friends from the Ukraine crying themselves to sleep with worry for their families. Whiny bitching about irrelevant analogies only serves to make you look dumber.

And I know people whose lives were nearly destroyed by US imperialist ventures, so...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Crimea is for all intents and purposes Russian and the 1954 transfer to the Ukrainian SSR was a mistake, though I disapprove of how Russia pursued this annexation.

I wonder how many No voters support Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. It seems that self-determination only matters when you support the group which wants it.

It's really time for you to show some respect and shut up with your trolling. It was never smart nor funny, but at the point where we are now and people are beginning to die you should really take a step back.

I understand that this is remote for most of you American teenagers but I have friends from the Ukraine crying themselves to sleep with worry for their families. Whiny bitching about irrelevant analogies only serves to make you look dumber.

And I know people whose lives were nearly destroyed by US imperialist ventures, so...

No you don't.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Crimea is for all intents and purposes Russian and the 1954 transfer to the Ukrainian SSR was a mistake, though I disapprove of how Russia pursued this annexation.

I wonder how many No voters support Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. It seems that self-determination only matters when you support the group which wants it.

It's really time for you to show some respect and shut up with your trolling. It was never smart nor funny, but at the point where we are now and people are beginning to die you should really take a step back.

I understand that this is remote for most of you American teenagers but I have friends from the Ukraine crying themselves to sleep with worry for their families. Whiny bitching about irrelevant analogies only serves to make you look dumber.

And I know people whose lives were nearly destroyed by US imperialist ventures, so...

No you don't.

Well, one (their father was almost killed in the illegal NATO bombing of civilian targets in Yugoslavia).

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The comparison of Iraq and Crimea is absurd.

Interventionism is absurd.

World War II?

Lol.

Was WWII not an intervention?

That's such a stock example, and not even true, seeing as we were attacked and wouldn't have interfered otherwise.

But hypothetically, if we hadn't been attacked at all by anyone, would you support military intervention to help the British and the French?

[Napoleon]

Crimea is for all intents and purposes Russian and the 1954 transfer to the Ukrainian SSR was a mistake, though I disapprove of how Russia pursued this annexation.

I wonder how many No voters support Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. It seems that self-determination only matters when you support the group which wants it.

It's really time for you to show some respect and shut up with your trolling. It was never smart nor funny, but at the point where we are now and people are beginning to die you should really take a step back.

I understand that this is remote for most of you American teenagers but I have friends from the Ukraine crying themselves to sleep with worry for their families. Whiny bitching about irrelevant analogies only serves to make you look dumber.

His trolling won't affect anyone in Ukraine.

[Indy Texas]

I support the Crimean people's right to leave Ukraine. But I don't think it was appropriate for that referendum to happen with Russian troops swarming the place and for Putin and the Duma to rush through a bunch of bills to annex it ASAP.

The Russian troops need to leave, the UN should deploy peacekeeping forces and an independent Crimea should hold another referendum on whether or not to join the Russian Federation.

[IceSpear]

Nyet. I don't support fraudulent referendums as a basis for annexation.

[morgieb]

Nyet. I don't support fraudulent referendums as a basis for annexation.

[Tender Branson]

Nein (R).  Es ist nicht eine gute Idee. 

I help you out a bit with your German: "Es ist keine gute Idee."



...

As for the question: No (I/O), even though giving Crimea to Ukraine 60 years ago as a present was a bad decision.

[YL]

No (D).  The current Crimean government was installed by a very dubious coup (something which some of Putin's apologists seem not to have noticed -- there are legitimate criticisms of what happened in Kiev and the new government there but what happened in Simferopol looks worse) and the referendum looks suspicious and was not held under appropriate conditions for such a vote.

Not that there's anything we can do about it.

[Zanas]

Nichtwähler (O). I don't care either way.

[Redalgo]

Ja (I/O)

From the pro-Russian perspective Ukraine has lost its democratically-elected government to pro-West protesters who had some degree of support from the West, that shift threatens to put yet another ally of the EU and NATO on Russia's borders while having the potential to eventually deprive the Russian Navy of dominance over the Black Sea – Crimea being a coveted territory the Russian Empire fought a war against the Ottomans for control of long ago, and the ethnic Russians living in some parts of Ukraine would in fact like to switch sides. To that effect, borders within the Soviet Union dividing Russia and Ukraine several decades ago were not drawn with faithful recognition of ethnic/national divides as a high priority. This is to say, we see a minor instance here of “tyranny of the map” in trapping some high concentrations of well-established Russians on the Ukrainian side of the border.

On the other hand, Ukraine is obviously a victim of Russian imperialism. The Russian invasion of its territory is unjustified, referendums could have been conducted peacefully without foreign interference, and it is also inappropriate given Russia's diplomatic commitment years ago to respect Ukrainian independence as part of the deal for Ukraine giving up its sizable nuclear arsenal – one that could have provided a great measure of deterrence against these more recent shenanigans backed by Russia's immense hard power. Ukraine has been under undue Russian influence for a long time and deserves to go its own way even if that does not ideally suit the national interests of Russia, and this is all the more emphasized by the very suspiciously one-sided approval in referendum results for Crimea and Sevastopol to join Russia.

I think the process involved here is corrupt and grossly inappropriate but voted “ja” mostly because I think most people in the territories in question would have genuinely supported this change if nothing had been tampered with in the referendums and those polls had been carried out by Ukraine under less troubling circumstances. Moving forward, it would be more of an injustice to people on the ground for these territories to return to Ukraine than it has already been unjust for Russia to be the initial aggressor in this ordeal.

More referendums may be needed in Ukraine's easternmost oblasts but for now I am a bit concerned about the potential for Russian forces to sweep into some of the aforementioned areas with insufficient forces in defense on the ground to serve as an effective deterrent.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The processes used to arrive at the referendum were clearly extraordinarily dodgy. I don't see any reason to doubt that a majority in the Crimea would currently prefer to be Russian than Ukrainian (the elephant in the room is that Ukraine is pretty much a failed state, while Russia looks to be a powerful country once again) but this stuff has to matter, at least a bit.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The comparison of Iraq and Crimea is absurd.

Interventionism is absurd.

World War II?

Lol.

Was WWII not an intervention?

That's such a stock example, and not even true, seeing as we were attacked and wouldn't have interfered otherwise.

But hypothetically, if we hadn't been attacked at all by anyone, would you support military intervention to help the British and the French?

I'll answer your question with a question-would you enlist and fight the fight? Would you storm on to the beach to be greeted by a haze of machine gun fire for France and England?

[Sol]

The processes used to arrive at the referendum were clearly extraordinarily dodgy. I don't see any reason to doubt that a majority in the Crimea would currently prefer to be Russian than Ukrainian (the elephant in the room is that Ukraine is pretty much a failed state, while Russia looks to be a powerful country once again) but this stuff has to matter, at least a bit.

^^^

Pretty much this. A Russian annexation would be perfectly fine, provided it took place under the auspices of a fair referendum.

[Simfan34]

Crimea is for all intents and purposes Russian and the 1954 transfer to the Ukrainian SSR was a mistake, though I disapprove of how Russia pursued this annexation.

I wonder how many No voters support Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. It seems that self-determination only matters when you support the group which wants it.

It's really time for you to show some respect and shut up with your trolling. It was never smart nor funny, but at the point where we are now and people are beginning to die you should really take a step back.

I understand that this is remote for most of you American teenagers but I have friends from the Ukraine crying themselves to sleep with worry for their families. Whiny bitching about irrelevant analogies only serves to make you look dumber.

And I know people whose lives were nearly destroyed by US imperialist ventures, so...

No you don't.

Well, one (their father was almost killed in the illegal NATO bombing of civilian targets in Yugoslavia).

And how do they feel about that. They are now living in the country that undertook these imperialist ventures so...

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The comparison of Iraq and Crimea is absurd.

Interventionism is absurd.

World War II?

Lol.

Was WWII not an intervention?

That's such a stock example, and not even true, seeing as we were attacked and wouldn't have interfered otherwise.

But hypothetically, if we hadn't been attacked at all by anyone, would you support military intervention to help the British and the French?

I'll answer your question with a question-would you enlist and fight the fight? Would you storm on to the beach to be greeted by a haze of machine gun fire for France and England?

I'm blind and gay and far too skinny to fight a war, but I suppose I'd be willing to fight the good fight in retrospect.

[nolesfan2011]

absolutely not, it violates international law and was a rigged referendum held at gunpoint.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The comparison of Iraq and Crimea is absurd.

Considering the death tool of Iraqi War you're absolutely right.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The processes used to arrive at the referendum were clearly extraordinarily dodgy. I don't see any reason to doubt that a majority in the Crimea would currently prefer to be Russian than Ukrainian (the elephant in the room is that Ukraine is pretty much a failed state, while Russia looks to be a powerful country once again) but this stuff has to matter, at least a bit.

^^^

Pretty much this. A Russian annexation would be perfectly fine, provided it took place under the auspices of a fair referendum.

Maybe the Tatars and Ukrainians should have voted instead of sitting on the sidelines and crying...

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Maybe the Tatars and Ukrainians should have voted instead of sitting on the sidelines and crying...

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

The comparison of Iraq and Crimea is absurd.

Interventionism is absurd.

World War II?

Lol.

Was WWII not an intervention?

That's such a stock example, and not even true, seeing as we were attacked and wouldn't have interfered otherwise.

But hypothetically, if we hadn't been attacked at all by anyone, would you support military intervention to help the British and the French?

I'll answer your question with a question-would you enlist and fight the fight? Would you storm on to the beach to be greeted by a haze of machine gun fire for France and England?

I'm blind and gay and far too skinny to fight a war, but I suppose I'd be willing to fight the good fight in retrospect.

You're blind?

I'm not sure what being gay has to with not being able to fight in a war though. I've met plenty of able soldiers who're gay. 

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The comparison of Iraq and Crimea is absurd.

Interventionism is absurd.

World War II?

Lol.

Was WWII not an intervention?

That's such a stock example, and not even true, seeing as we were attacked and wouldn't have interfered otherwise.

But hypothetically, if we hadn't been attacked at all by anyone, would you support military intervention to help the British and the French?

I'll answer your question with a question-would you enlist and fight the fight? Would you storm on to the beach to be greeted by a haze of machine gun fire for France and England?

I'm blind and gay and far too skinny to fight a war, but I suppose I'd be willing to fight the good fight in retrospect.

You're blind?

I'm not sure what being gay has to with not being able to fight in a war though. I've met plenty of able soldiers who're gay. 

I'm legally blind, yes. And the gay thing was assuming we were still discussing the 1930s/1940s. Obviously it wouldn't be a problem here. Speaking of which, when did Sweden allow openly gay soldiers?

[Goldwater]

Nyet. I don't support fraudulent referendums as a basis for annexation.

[Frodo]

I would support the full integration of Crimea into the Russian Federation had the vote been conducted according to international norms and with international observers (including the United States and the European Union). 

It is a shame that Putin sought to rig the vote when a free and fair election probably would have delivered Crimea into his hands anyway.
-----------------

Long story short: no.