Opinion of Ronald Reagan

[H. Ross Peron]

Generally had a negative effect in his policies, but Reagan wasn't some sort of James Buchanan or Herbert Hoover either.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Threads like this one really illuminate the double standard on this forum.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Please elaborate in a comparatively non-whiny manner.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Contribution has nothing to do with quality. Rochambeau contributed a lot, just not very good contributes of the white noise variety.

Also, why can't you see that you and Gully qualify as bullies? You're grown men too.

You obviously have no idea what cyber bullying is.

Seven or eight years ago I was stalked, harassed, bullied, betrayed by people who I thought were my friends, tracked, libeled, made fun of, doc dropped, and no matter where I went online, the same people were there.  I eventually had to change my screen name entirely and isolate myself (with the exception of two or three people) until it all died down.  This was when I was twelve and thirteen years old.

A couple of people laughing at you on a silly political forum is not cyberbullying.

Now, there are assholes on this site.  Some of us freely admit to it.  But that's very different from bullying.

Don't go on a political site unless you have a thick shell of skin.  You are still here right now and no one, to my knowledge, has done a thing to you.

[Reginald]

Charisma is far more important than most people in this thread think. Part of being a good president, especially in modern times, is the ability to present yourself. See how Kennedy won in 1960 because of his charisma on television? (and thievery, but that's beside the point)

Why I think he's unfairly judged compared to Carter is that Carter was a failure. Like John Tyler, Carter had a perfect storm working for him, as a Dark Horse candidate who somehow managed to win. Carter did not get along with the rest of the government at all, because he was a major micro-manager who never concentrated on one thing. He talked down to his own party and was/is generally unlikeable, so he lost in 1980.

If Ronald Reagan was president from 1977-1980, he would have done much better. But this isn't about that time period. What makes Reagan different from Carter is that Reagan was less of an ass and more willing to work with, for better or worse. He had the charisma that could rival the 2008 Obama, and he never talked down to the nation like Carter did. He was also very funny and willing to self-deprecate in his humor, unlike the more serious Carter.

Go ahead and listen to that Challenger speech. Reagan made the country feel comforted despite the horrific events. Carter would have made us even more depressed. Reagan's voice and smile comforted us all.

His role in ending the Cold War is just as important. His work with other world leaders made the fall of the Berlin Wall and reunion of Germany possible, even if he wasn't president at that point.

Regardless of how and what else he did, these qualities alone place him above many of the presidents he is below right now. Reagan made the United States feel as great and powerful as it really was. The Great Communicator is easily one of the top 20 presidents of all time, and far better than failures like Herbert Hoover and James Buchanan.

It's true he may not have always done the best things (ignoring AIDS; questionable involvement in Ollie North's selling weapons to enemy countries), but he's no failure.

So it seems your rationale is this (do correct me if I'm misreading): people who don't agree with Reagan from a policy standpoint should, despite all that, be voting FF because he was more charismatic and more rhetorically skilled than his predecessor, who was oh by the way also a failure.

How do you square that with your post earlier in the thread?

people should vote more based on their presidencies.

Again, many people who voted HP here have done that, to various extents. It incidentally seems to be you who is deemphasizing what Reagan actually did, opting instead to appeal to his charisma (imagine that of an actor! But I digress).

It's actually your last sentence that bothers me the most, moreso than the Thrill Up My Leg stuff. You're indicating you're aware of some of the criticism, but you're willing to wave that away because "THE GREAT COMMUNICATOR!!"?

[Sec. of State Superique]

For all of those who love to criticize Jimmy Carter, I'll give you a post showing why he was a great President.

[Illuminati Blood Drinker]

Death to Reagan and Reaganism!

[Lincoln Republican]

Now, Reagan was not the greatest President, by any means, however, he did have many notable and historic achievements.

Reagan ended the Cold War, making the world a safer place.
  
Reagan fueled an economic boom that lasted two decades.

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

Following the anguish of Vietnam and Watergate, and the malaise and negativism of the Carter years, Reagan gave the nation a new reason for optimism instead of pessimism for the future.

Reagan laid the framework with Gorbachev for the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, which reduced both countries’ arsenals of nuclear weapons.

Now, I realize some of you despise Reagan with a passion, and would not admit that Reagan actually had some remarkable achievements and successes as President, but you are free to hold your very narrow view of the world if you wish.  

Anyway, these are some of Reagan's achievements, and are historical facts, and if ya wanna deny history, go ahead, and if ya don't like em, lump em.  I could care less.

[SWE]

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

You are aware that the military build up was started by Jimmy Carter, right?

[ElectionsGuy]

This place thinks Ronald Reagan is a worse president than Woodrow Wilson...

That's just depressing.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

This place thinks Ronald Reagan is a worse president than Woodrow Wilson...

That's just depressing.

Several of Wilson FF votes were 'protest votes' based on libertarian hate of him.

[Horus]

This place thinks Ronald Reagan is a worse president than Woodrow Wilson...

That's just depressing.

I'm no fan of Reagan at all, and both are HPs, but that is VERY depressing, agreed.

[Randy Bobandy]

Perhaps the most horrible of all horrible persons ever to have set foot in the Oval Office.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Please elaborate in a comparatively non-whiny manner.

Sure. Some people are making very thoughtful posts outlining the reasons why they think Reagan was a bad president. That's fine. Others are using ridiculously hyperbolic and insulting terms to deride him without substantiating their claims in any way whatsoever. If anyone on this forum said the same things about Obama or another generally over-hyped Democrat, they'd be shot down and reported so fast. Sometimes I really think the red avatars on here take for granted their privileged position.

Work for you? Probably not. But it's true.

[MATTROSE94]

Was I the only Democrat that voted FF for Ronald Reagan?

[Lincoln Republican]

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

You are aware that the military build up was started by Jimmy Carter, right?

Carter was weak and vacillating in defense matters

E.g., he cut back on the navy's shipbuilding program, while the Soviets had strengthened their forces.

Even Democratic Senator Henry Jackson found Carter to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters. 

[Donerail]

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

You are aware that the military build up was started by Jimmy Carter, right?

Carter was weak and vacillating in defense matters

E.g., he cut back on the navy's shipbuilding program, while the Soviets had strengthened their forces.

Even Democratic Senator Henry Jackson found Carter to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters. 

Scoop Jackson found everyone short of Jack D. Ripper to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters.

[Lincoln Republican]

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

You are aware that the military build up was started by Jimmy Carter, right?

Carter was weak and vacillating in defense matters

E.g., he cut back on the navy's shipbuilding program, while the Soviets had strengthened their forces.

Even Democratic Senator Henry Jackson found Carter to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters. 

Scoop Jackson found everyone short of Jack D. Ripper to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters.

Henry Kissinger, one of the foremost authorities on defense and foreign policy matters in history, held the same view on Carter's defense policies as did Scoop Jackson, in other words, Kissinger found Carter's defense policies to be weak, ineffective, and confused.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

You are aware that the military build up was started by Jimmy Carter, right?

Carter was weak and vacillating in defense matters

E.g., he cut back on the navy's shipbuilding program, while the Soviets had strengthened their forces.

Even Democratic Senator Henry Jackson found Carter to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters. 

Scoop Jackson found everyone short of Jack D. Ripper to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters.

Henry Kissinger, one of the foremost authorities on defense and foreign policy matters in history, held the same view on Carter's defense policies as did Scoop Jackson, in other words, Kissinger found Carter's defense policies to be weak, ineffective, and confused.

Kissinger was the Secretary of State for the last liberal president, so his solution to Carter's problems was different then Reagan's.

[Ichabod]

Reagan rebuilt America's armed forces whereby the U.S. was able to pursue a policy of peace through strength, reversing the weakening of the military during the Carter administration.

You are aware that the military build up was started by Jimmy Carter, right?

Carter was weak and vacillating in defense matters

E.g., he cut back on the navy's shipbuilding program, while the Soviets had strengthened their forces.

Even Democratic Senator Henry Jackson found Carter to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters. 

Scoop Jackson found everyone short of Jack D. Ripper to be weak, ineffective, and confused in defense matters.

Henry Kissinger, one of the foremost authorities on defense and foreign policy matters in history, held the same view on Carter's defense policies as did Scoop Jackson, in other words, Kissinger found Carter's defense policies to be weak, ineffective, and confused.

Kissinger's ideas about not being "weak, ineffective and confused" were intervention and conspiration against democratically elected governments (my country's government as an example). Sorry, but that gentleman is an authority basically on nothing.

[Lincoln Republican]

Ah, but Henry Kissinger was indeed one of the foremost authorities in the field of diplomacy and international relations.

From Wiki a summary of his public service and academic credentials

A recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, he served as National Security Advisor and later concurrently as Secretary of State in the administrations of Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. After his term, his opinion was still sought by some subsequent U.S. presidents and other world leaders.

Henry Kissinger received his AB degree summa cum laude in political science at Harvard College in 1950, where he lived in Adams House and studied under William Yandell Elliott. He received his MA and PhD degrees at Harvard University in 1952 and 1954, respectively. In 1952, while still at Harvard, he served as a consultant to the director of the Psychological Strategy Board. His doctoral dissertation was titled "Peace, Legitimacy, and the Equilibrium (A Study of the Statesmanship of Castlereagh and Metternich)".

Kissinger remained at Harvard as a member of the faculty in the Department of Government and, with Robert R. Bowie, co-founded the Center for International Affairs in 1958. In 1955, he was a consultant to the National Security Council's Operations Coordinating Board. During 1955 and 1956, he was also study director in nuclear weapons and foreign policy at the Council on Foreign Relations. He released his book Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy the following year. From 1956 to 1958 he worked for the Rockefeller Brothers Fund as director of its Special Studies Project. He was director of the Harvard Defense Studies Program between 1958 and 1971. He was also director of the Harvard International Seminar between 1951 and 1971. Outside of academia, he served as a consultant to several government agencies, including the Operations Research Office, the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, and the Department of State, and the Rand Corporation, a think-tank.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I guess Clark Clifford summed Reagan best: "an amiable dunce".

[Lincoln Republican]

I guess Clark Clifford summed Reagan best: "an amiable dunce".

Well, this "amiable dunce" became an extremely popular two term President of the United States, while Clifford is most remembered as a key figure in the Bank of Credit and Commerce International scandal, which led to a grand jury indictment.

[SWE]

I guess Clark Clifford summed Reagan best: "an amiable dunce".

Well, this "amiable dunce" became an extremely popular two term President of the United States, while Clifford is most remembered as a key figure in the Bank of Credit and Commerce International scandal, which led to a grand jury indictment.

Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge were both extremely popular presidents when they were in office too.

[Mordecai]

I guess Clark Clifford summed Reagan best: "an amiable dunce".

Well, this "amiable dunce" became an extremely popular two term President of the United States, while Clifford is most remembered as a key figure in the Bank of Credit and Commerce International scandal, which led to a grand jury indictment.

Ronald Reagan was a key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal, which led to several indictments of people in his National Security Council…