SENATE BILL: Executive Department Amendment (Sent to the Regions)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE


This needs seven ayes to pass.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What is the final text?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Clauses presently numbered as five and above in Section 2 of Article VIII shall be renumbered accordingly. [/quote]

[Cincinnatus]

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Clauses presently numbered as five and above in Section 2 of Article VIII shall be renumbered accordingly. [/quote]

This amendment was a full text replacement, which is what we're voting on.  Sorry for not posting this originally.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY

I don't get what we are trying to do here. If the goal is to be able to rename departments, we should just have an amendment saying we can rename the departments.  If it's about some arcane implied powers derived from clause 28, then in that case too I think we need to be more specific and straightforward since very few people are going to be able to understand the supreme court precedents.

[Cincinnatus]

NAY

I don't get what we are trying to do here. If the goal is to be able to rename departments, we should just have an amendment saying we can rename the departments.  If it's about some arcane implied powers derived from clause 28, then in that case too I think we need to be more specific and straightforward since very few people are going to be able to understand the supreme court precedents.

This amendment accomplishes the goal of having "an amendment saying we can rename the departments".  Perhaps that's not as simple as desired, but it is functional.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

NAY

I don't get what we are trying to do here. If the goal is to be able to rename departments, we should just have an amendment saying we can rename the departments.  If it's about some arcane implied powers derived from clause 28, then in that case too I think we need to be more specific and straightforward since very few people are going to be able to understand the supreme court precedents.

This amendment accomplishes the goal of having "an amendment saying we can rename the departments".  Perhaps that's not as simple as desired, but it is functional.

But what else does it do? Clause 28 is not about naming. Does it allow the Senate to abolish the departments completely?

[Talleyrand]

AYE

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

I don't get what we are trying to do here. If the goal is to be able to rename departments, we should just have an amendment saying we can rename the departments.  If it's about some arcane implied powers derived from clause 28, then in that case too I think we need to be more specific and straightforward since very few people are going to be able to understand the supreme court precedents.

This amendment accomplishes the goal of having "an amendment saying we can rename the departments".  Perhaps that's not as simple as desired, but it is functional.

But what else does it do? Clause 28 is not about naming. Does it allow the Senate to abolish the departments completely?

Clause 28 is the root of the Senate's authority over Departments. That would extent to the ability to change their names yes and yes, they could also abolish them as well. The naming problem stems from the fact those Departments in ARticle VIII fall under a different umbrella.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We could have gone any number of ways to address this, shua, including an express authorization limited to just the naming issue. If you had posited that approach, I would have made a text for such. I do think there is a desire to be forward thinking and remove this distinction amongst Department types lingering from the way the Fourth COn-Con worded the Third Constitution Article VIII.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I was more focused on other bills, and I was thinking that the clause 28 language was just there to give the Senate a little more ability to define the duties of the positions, so I wasn't so worried about it.  I'm against having a situation where there is a department listed in the constitution while meanwhile the department named there doesn't actually exist. I think any citizen should be able to read the constitution and have a pretty good idea of the current situation as far as how the government is organized.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't much like it either. This approach was taken because people figured it had a better chance of passing then removing Section II of Article VIII.

No option is perfect and all will be hard to pass for one reason or another.

[Goldwater]

AYE

[Cincinnatus]

This has enough votes to pass.  Senators have 24 hours to change their vote.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I change my vote from "didn't vote" to Aye.

[Cincinnatus]

Vote on Final Passage of the Executive Department Amendment:

Aye [8]: Alfred, Goldwater, Talleyrand, Yankee, Tyrion, Lumine, TNF, and bore
Nay (1): shua
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (1): DC al Fine

Having eight votes in the affirmative this constitutional amendment is declared passed and is presented to the regions for ratification.