Opinion of Bill Clinton

[Oakvale]

HP on balance. Mostly everything worthwhile Clinton did in office was a result of being forced to. His economic policies were rather good, and he managed to pass NAFTA and welfare reform, but either of those would have been passed under any sane President. And he only very reluctantly intervened in Yugolsavia after Blair pestered him for months. His administration was also horrendously incompetent, and if it wasn't for the luck of a decent economy he'd be remembered as a Carter-level disaster.

[Mechaman]

Sociopathic monster.

Oh yeah?  Let's see what Secret Service and the stealth bomber flying over your house has to say about that, True Leftist.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Sociopathic monster.

Is this because of Milosevic?

Snowstalker had a rare good post; David Koresh could have been nabbed while jogging that morning, but Janet Reno wanted a spectacle, and she got it. Janet Reno ranks with Cheney in terms of vileness, and Bill Clinton most carry part of the blame for appointing her.

What about Milosevic?

Love him.  FF.  

Will post sage effortpost later, but it's too early.

We've heard it all before, anyway.

neoliberal fascist bill clinton bombed innocent workers, ultimately defeated the possibility of the glorious socialist republic of America. Free trade agreements? More like fascism!

RIP Vince Foster
RIP David Koresh
RIP Slobodan Milosevic

RIP the Snowstalker that wasn't a stupid troll. At more length:

Please stop. This has gone on long enough. It was funny for about a day, but you need to stop. You are like a cancer of the Forum's brain and lower the quality of every thread in which you post. Your posts could be written by an edgy-True-Leftist algorithm and you seem to truly enjoy being an asshole. Nothing you say is interesting or contributes a shred of value to this forum anymore, and the part that really saddens me is that you used to be decent. Sure, you weren't one of the greats, but most of us aren't and that's OK. Being infamous doesn't get you anything but the hatred of a lot of people, and if you're just starved for attention because your parents don't love you you can just admit it and go see a therapist. Just don't spew your filth on this forum anymore.

[TNF]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

[Potatoe]

the Brady Bill,

Really? A Gun Control bill is on the "Reasons why Bill Clinton is a sociopath list"?

[Mechaman]

Love him.  FF. 

Will post sage effortpost later, but it's too early.

We've heard it all before, anyway.

neoliberal fascist bill clinton bombed innocent workers, ultimately defeated the possibility of the glorious socialist republic of America. Free trade agreements? More like fascism!

RIP Vince Foster
RIP David Koresh
RIP Slobodan Milosevic

When the drones reach your location, you'll be able to wish them your respects.  In person.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

the Brady Bill,

Really? A Gun Control bill is on the "Reasons why Bill Clinton is a sociopath list"?

TNF seems to think that gun control is the main obstacle to a communist revolution.

[Potatoe]

the Brady Bill,

Really? A Gun Control bill is on the "Reasons why Bill Clinton is a sociopath list"?

TNF seems to think that gun control is the main obstacle to a communist revolution.

Oh yeah, forgot, on another site his moniker is Socialist Gun Nut, and accused Gun Control activists of being Neoliberals IIRC.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"? Furthermore, Yugoslavia had already begun to break up before Clinton's presidency.

[Goldwater]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"? Furthermore, Yugoslavia had already begun to break up before Clinton's presidency.

Actually, not even those first things you mention are "sociopathic"...

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"? Furthermore, Yugoslavia had already begun to break up before Clinton's presidency.

Actually, not even those first things you mention are "sociopathic"...

Our dear friend is stretching the truth a bit, though the fact still stands that "free trade" policies with oppressive regimes are not to be encouraged, the poor are entitled to a decent standard of living, and LGBT(QQIAP2S) people should have equal rights.

[Deus Naturae]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"?

It's a global military outfit that robs US taxpayers to fund wars and subsidize weapons contractors.

[TNF]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"?

It's a global military outfit that robs US taxpayers to fund wars and subsidize weapons contractors.

^^what he said

[Goldwater]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"? Furthermore, Yugoslavia had already begun to break up before Clinton's presidency.

Actually, not even those first things you mention are "sociopathic"...

Our dear friend is stretching the truth a bit, though the fact still stands that "free trade" policies with oppressive regimes are not to be encouraged, the poor are entitled to a decent standard of living, and LGBT(QQIAP2S) people should have equal rights.

I disagree with your descriptions of NAFTA and welfare reform, but I'm sure that comes as no surprise.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"? Furthermore, Yugoslavia had already begun to break up before Clinton's presidency.

Actually, not even those first things you mention are "sociopathic"...

Our dear friend is stretching the truth a bit, though the fact still stands that "free trade" policies with oppressive regimes are not to be encouraged, the poor are entitled to a decent standard of living, and LGBT(QQIAP2S) people should have equal rights.

I disagree with your descriptions of NAFTA and welfare reform, but I'm sure that comes as no surprise.

I suppose that neither of us will end up convincing the other. Maybe we can combine our PM scores and become a socially liberal economic Moderate Hero? But then again, that would just be the Democratic Party.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Wow, Bubba's less popular here than I thought. I figured with so many liberals here he'd be FDR-levels of FF.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Is this because of Milosevic?

What about him? It was none of our business.

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"?

It's a global military outfit that robs US taxpayers to fund wars and subsidize weapons contractors.

^^what he said

Not to mention its sole purpose is to more or less create problems with Russia.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"?

It's a global military outfit that robs US taxpayers to fund wars and subsidize weapons contractors.

^^what he said

It seems the idea of a just war is anathema to you two. Am I correct?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Is this because of Milosevic?

What about him? It was none of our business.

Domestic affairs are but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of our business, my friend. The US, as a developed nation, has a duty to stamp out oppression in the world if and when it can.

[Deus Naturae]

No, it's because of NAFTA, entering the WTO, PNTR for the PRC, the destruction of Yugoslavia, NATO expansion, killing welfare, the Brady Bill, DADT, and DOMA

I'll give you trade, welfare, and to a lesser extent DOMA (and our disagreements on gun control are more on the philosophical side), but how is NATO expansion "sociopathic"?

It's a global military outfit that robs US taxpayers to fund wars and subsidize weapons contractors.

^^what he said

It seems the idea of a just war is anathema to you two. Am I correct?

What has that got to do with NATO expansion?

[SWE]

Wow, Bubba's less popular here than I thought. I figured with so many liberals here he'd be FDR-levels of FF.

I'm more surprised at how high his approval here is, for the same reasons you think it's too low

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The Mad Haberdasher of Hope ranks, along with Reagan and Kennedy, as among the most overrated presidents by the general public in history, and certainly in the 20th century. Of course, any analysis of his presidency comes with a major caveat; rather than having firm and coherent policy goals or any long-term vision, the Clintons have only two goals; to attain power and to maintain power. This, plus Bill's debaucherous lifestyle and his lack of remorse at the painful consequences of his domestic and foreign policy suggest that he is mostly likely a sociopath. In addition, all of the domestic policy "achievements" of his term were, for the most part, Congress's doing; still, the involvement he did have in the destructive domestic policy legislation under his terms and his foreign policy based on maintaining and expanding American hegemony can and should both be criticized.

Though I am a strong supporter of true free trade, the signing and implementation of NAFTA under Clinton's watch was both dishonest and destructive. It was "free trade" that busted unions, accelerated the decline of American industry, and sent subsidized food to Mexico which native farmers could never compete with. Combined with the renewal of subsidies for big oil companies, the expansion of the War on Blacks Drugs, the encouraging of predatory loaning practices by the HUD, the gutting of the most basic and sensible regulations on finance capital, and of course the gutting of the welfare system in the guise of "reform", the 1990's would be recognized as a truly awful time period if the politicians behind economic liberalization didn't have their collective asses covered by the Internet boom.

The Clinton foreign policy too was horrendous, with every move a calculated attempt to preserve and expand the empire of blood, tears, and oil. Reneging on the promise to not expand NATO, the archaic good ol' boys club of the wealthiest imperial powers, NATO expanded into the liberalizing ex-Warsaw Pact to extend its own power and encircle Russia (this probably has been a major reason for Russia's recent antagonism towards the West, which means that said encirclement backfired on NATO). The Anglo-American policy towards Iraq (combating Saddam's nuclear program with crippling sanctions and the occasional air raid) led to hundreds of thousands of preventable civilian deaths, and the bombing of a Sudanese pharmaceutical plant based on faulty intelligence led to hundreds of preventable deaths there. Where peacekeepers could have made a major difference in the deadliest conflicts since World War II, Clinton not only opposed but actively fought to prevent any sort of intervention to defuse the bloody wars in the Congo and Rwanda.

Finally, while I'd never praise the Milosevic government's oppression of the Albanian minority in Kosovo and international intervention in some form was almost certainly warranted to combat both government repression and the terrorism/drug cartels which popped up as a response to it, the nature of said NATO intervention led to nothing but crippling destruction and the deaths of hundreds of civilians across Serbia and Montenegro, most nowhere near the combat zones, utterly failed to protect Serbian and Albanian refugees fleeing Kosovo, and placed the territory of Kosovo under the de facto control of organized crime. Not only did the Clinton administration pursue an expanded American empire under the guise of internationalism, but they weren't even good at it.

Far from being a pivotal element of the supposedly idyllic 1990's, Bill Clinton's presidency was an incompetent mess whose only achievements were riding on Congress's gutting of the New Deal and Great Society, planting the seeds for the Great Recession, and murdering civilians abroad for little to no political benefit. Had his presidency not been marked by a self-defeating Republican Congress and an economic boom (one which happened to accelerate the growth of the wealth gap in America), he would be rightfully recognized as an awful president and an awful person. HP.

[Sec. of State Superique]

Highly overrated, Democrat victim of a great shift to the right in America, average Presidency, nice post-Presidency, Good VP, FF because I can't give him an FF. His wife is better than him anyway!

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The one and only president who treated the presidency with the respect it deserved.

[DevotedDemocrat]

The Mad Haberdasher of Hope ranks, along with Reagan and Kennedy, as among the most overrated presidents by the general public in history, and certainly in the 20th century. Of course, any analysis of his presidency comes with a major caveat; rather than having firm and coherent policy goals or any long-term vision, the Clintons have only two goals; to attain power and to maintain power. This, plus Bill's debaucherous lifestyle and his lack of remorse at the painful consequences of his domestic and foreign policy suggest that he is mostly likely a sociopath. In addition, all of the domestic policy "achievements" of his term were, for the most part, Congress's doing; still, the involvement he did have in the destructive domestic policy legislation under his terms and his foreign policy based on maintaining and expanding American hegemony can and should both be criticized.

Though I am a strong supporter of true free trade, the signing and implementation of NAFTA under Clinton's watch was both dishonest and destructive. It was "free trade" that busted unions, accelerated the decline of American industry, and sent subsidized food to Mexico which native farmers could never compete with. Combined with the renewal of subsidies for big oil companies, the expansion of the War on Blacks Drugs, the encouraging of predatory loaning practices by the HUD, the gutting of the most basic and sensible regulations on finance capital, and of course the gutting of the welfare system in the guise of "reform", the 1990's would be recognized as a truly awful time period if the politicians behind economic liberalization didn't have their collective asses covered by the Internet boom.

The Clinton foreign policy too was horrendous, with every move a calculated attempt to preserve and expand the empire of blood, tears, and oil. Reneging on the promise to not expand NATO, the archaic good ol' boys club of the wealthiest imperial powers, NATO expanded into the liberalizing ex-Warsaw Pact to extend its own power and encircle Russia (this probably has been a major reason for Russia's recent antagonism towards the West, which means that said encirclement backfired on NATO). The Anglo-American policy towards Iraq (combating Saddam's nuclear program with crippling sanctions and the occasional air raid) led to hundreds of thousands of preventable civilian deaths, and the bombing of a Sudanese pharmaceutical plant based on faulty intelligence led to hundreds of preventable deaths there. Where peacekeepers could have made a major difference in the deadliest conflicts since World War II, Clinton not only opposed but actively fought to prevent any sort of intervention to defuse the bloody wars in the Congo and Rwanda.

Finally, while I'd never praise the Milosevic government's oppression of the Albanian minority in Kosovo and international intervention in some form was almost certainly warranted to combat both government repression and the terrorism/drug cartels which popped up as a response to it, the nature of said NATO intervention led to nothing but crippling destruction and the deaths of hundreds of civilians across Serbia and Montenegro, most nowhere near the combat zones, utterly failed to protect Serbian and Albanian refugees fleeing Kosovo, and placed the territory of Kosovo under the de facto control of organized crime. Not only did the Clinton administration pursue an expanded American empire under the guise of internationalism, but they weren't even good at it.

Far from being a pivotal element of the supposedly idyllic 1990's, Bill Clinton's presidency was an incompetent mess whose only achievements were riding on Congress's gutting of the New Deal and Great Society, planting the seeds for the Great Recession, and murdering civilians abroad for little to no political benefit. Had his presidency not been marked by a self-defeating Republican Congress and an economic boom (one which happened to accelerate the growth of the wealth gap in America), he would be rightfully recognized as an awful president and an awful person. HP.