Strange Oklahoma map

[⛄]

The results map of the 2004 Oklahoma Democratic primary looks interesting, but kind of strange.



If you take a look at the CD map the anomaly becomes even more salient:



Kerry won the three most populous counties - that's self-explanatory.

But why was there a divide cleaving Oklahoma in two, with Edwards winning the East and Clark winning the West?
If it was the other way round it would be more logical, as Clark's home state is bordering Arkansas. But this way?

And furthermore, how did Kerry win the entire panhandle?

[BaconBacon96]

That is most unusual.

Taking a closer look at some of the maps, I think Clark did better across the state, including coming very close to Edwards in some of those eastern counties, while Edwards won those counties but did much poorer in the ones he didn't win.

I can't explain why Clark did better in the west than in the east, nor can I explain why Kerry won the panhandle. Oklahoma Democrats are an odd group.

[Mr. Morden]

Does Oklahoma have any kind of east-west divide in terms of people identifying more as "culturally southern" vs. "culturally western"?  Edwards had that thick Southern accent, and could be seen as the identity politics candidate for southerners.  So if more people in the eastern half of the state see themselves as southerners….

[Joshgreen]

I'm going to guess Morden is right. The panhandle counties probably were fluke-ish for Kerry (maybe the uber-Republican lean of them makes the Dems there more "left" than in the rest of the state) since he only won with like 30ish % of the vote.

[beaver2.0]

I think the divide comes from back when Oklahoma was split into Oklahoma and the Indian territory along almost those borders.  Why it is like that now, I do not know,

[⛄]

The panhandle counties probably were fluke-ish for Kerry (maybe the uber-Republican lean of them makes the Dems there more "left" than in the rest of the state) since he only won with like 30ish % of the vote.

Really?

[Joshgreen]

The panhandle counties probably were fluke-ish for Kerry (maybe the uber-Republican lean of them makes the Dems there more "left" than in the rest of the state) since he only won with like 30ish % of the vote.

Really?

Maybe not, but enough to give Kerry a narrow plurality.

[Mechaman]

ITT 2 of the 5 Democrats who lived in Cimarron County preferred Kerry over Edwards or Clark.

[⛄]

ITT 2 of the 5 Democrats who lived in Cimarron County preferred Kerry over Edwards or Clark.

In actual fact, there were 749 voters in Texas County.
Fun fact: Texas County was even Kerry's second best county in OK.

Does this forum have an Oklahoman Democrat? Or do they only exist on paper?

[DINGO Joe]

While their registration level is low, the panhandle, especially Texas county has a high percentage of Hispanics.

As for Clark, all of the military bases in Oklahoma are in the western part of the state, in the two districts he won.

[Skill and Chance]

In 2008, Obama's best counties in the primary other than Oklahoma County (which he narrowly won) were Beaver and Cimarron in the Panhandle.  It appears that the few hundred active Dems in those counties are more liberal than elsewhere.  Remember, those counties have always been solid R, so the few Democrats there probably are sincerely liberal.

[Miles]

Does this forum have an Oklahoman Democrat? Or do they only exist on paper?

Have you ever been in the Forum Community section?

[DINGO Joe]

Does this forum have an Oklahoman Democrat? Or do they only exist on paper?

Have you ever been in the Forum Community section?

Yes, Bushie explains it all.

[RBH]

Perhaps Edwards was more active in the Tulsa/Ada TV markets and Clark was more active in the Oklahoma City/Lawton TV markets.

Here's the map: http://dishuser.org/TVMarkets/Maps/oklahoma.gif

Clark had an obvious win in Lawton with Fort Sill Army Base. But the big difference between East and West might just be a matter of which TV station was their local market.

[BaconBacon96]

That TV market's map actually correlates rather strongly with where Clark and Edwards did best.

On another thought, the idea that Panhandle Democrats must be more liberal because Kerry won there is not accurate at all. In 2012, Randall Terry won the entire Panhandle over Obama.

[⛄]

I think the reason for that divide is a mixture of TV ads and military bases.

Lifelong Oklahoman checking in with confirmation of this. Southeastern Oklahoma is even nicknamed "Little Dixie". Eastern Oklahoma (especially SE OK) is more culturally Southern and NW Oklahoma is quite Western. This divide holds true in everything from culture to economic activity to geography. Oklahoma's kind of an amalgam of regional identities. Oddly enough, some people consider Tulsa Midwestern. We've got a little bit of everything.

Could you as an Oklahoman approve that Oklahoma's East is more liberal (whatever that means in OK) than its West?

[Skill and Chance]

The military bases an

I think the reason for that divide is a mixture of TV ads and military bases.

Lifelong Oklahoman checking in with confirmation of this. Southeastern Oklahoma is even nicknamed "Little Dixie". Eastern Oklahoma (especially SE OK) is more culturally Southern and NW Oklahoma is quite Western. This divide holds true in everything from culture to economic activity to geography. Oklahoma's kind of an amalgam of regional identities. Oddly enough, some people consider Tulsa Midwestern. We've got a little bit of everything.

Could you as an Oklahoman approve that Oklahoma's East is more liberal (whatever that means in OK) than its West?

Eh, I wouldn't call them necessarily "liberal." All of Oklahoma is quite conservative, especially the rural areas and small towns.Southeastern Oklahoma has (similar to the rest of the South) always been more "yellow dog Democrat" than the rest of the state, though that may be a thing of the past now.

I haven't spent much time in that part of the state, but I did make political calls to that area back in 2010. We all expected I'd get awful reactions, but they weren't nearly as bad as we'd anticipated. It's definitely swung Republican recently, although half of our Senate's 12 Democrats are from Eastern Oklahoma. Maybe the area's large Native American population has an effect, I don't know. But going back to statehood, there's been a strong SE/NW divide in terms of party. I'm honestly not sure why.

I think the large military presence in the SW definitely helped hand the victory to Clark. I hadn't considered the media markets, but that's certainly a possibility.

Interesting.  Which county would you pick as the next to be won by a future Democratic presidential nominee in a general?

[⛄]

This is the 1976 Ford/Carter map. Ford still won. The last time OK County was won by a Democrat was 1964. I can't find full data on Tulsa County, but it's gone GOP since at least the 1950s.

1936 (nineteen thirty-six) was the last time Tulsa County went for the Democrats. That's sick...

[Indy Texas]

This is the 1976 Ford/Carter map. Ford still won. The last time OK County was won by a Democrat was 1964. I can't find full data on Tulsa County, but it's gone GOP since at least the 1950s.

1936 (nineteen thirty-six) was the last time Tulsa County went for the Democrats. That's sick...

That is shocking. I know the relatively populous counties in most Southern(-ish) states started voting consistently Republican with the first Eisenhower landslide (ex. Harris and Dallas counties in Texas). What would the rationale be for Tulsans to vote Republican in the 1940s when their state was still largely Democratic and that party had an advantage nationwide?

[CatoMinor]

I think it just comes down to the fact of Edwards being the Southern Democrat in the race and Clark having more appeal to the west.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This is the 1976 Ford/Carter map. Ford still won. The last time OK County was won by a Democrat was 1964. I can't find full data on Tulsa County, but it's gone GOP since at least the 1950s.

1936 (nineteen thirty-six) was the last time Tulsa County went for the Democrats. That's sick...

That is shocking. I know the relatively populous counties in most Southern(-ish) states started voting consistently Republican with the first Eisenhower landslide (ex. Harris and Dallas counties in Texas). What would the rationale be for Tulsans to vote Republican in the 1940s when their state was still largely Democratic and that party had an advantage nationwide?

It was probably some of the same things in Northern Oklahoma as it was for the swing to the Republicans in the other plains states:  a sense the New Deal wasn't working well, wanting to stay out of war, and an attractive candidate in Willkie.