Gun Nuts vs. Anti-Gun Nuts: Who is worse?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Gun nuts easily, because they often try to claim that we all need to be armed to the teeth before gun violence in America is truly solved.  

[Cassius]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

[Gass3268]

Gun Nuts and this would have been interesting to have a party breakdown.

[Cassius]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

Sure, but you don't see me insisting that everyone carry a duck, toenail clippings, and a pair of calipers at all times.

True. But, there may well be cases where one needs a gun to defend oneself, and thus, my own personal opinion is that people should be allowed to maintain some sort of firearm (and no, not an assault weapon etc) for them to fall back on if it is really needed (and yes, background checks and a gun registry are needed for this to be more policeable).

[IceSpear]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

Sure, but you don't see me insisting that everyone carry a duck, toenail clippings, and a pair of calipers at all times.

True. But, there may well be cases where one needs a gun to defend oneself, and thus, my own personal opinion is that people should be allowed to maintain some sort of firearm (and no, not an assault weapon etc) for them to fall back on if it is really needed (and yes, background checks and a gun registry are needed for this to be more policeable).

When are you at all likely to find yourself facing a situation in which a gun is helpful?

Instead of cowering during a home invasion, being ready the second they come through your door?

[Boris]

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

Sure, but you don't see me insisting that everyone carry a duck, toenail clippings, and a pair of calipers at all times.

True. But, there may well be cases where one needs a gun to defend oneself, and thus, my own personal opinion is that people should be allowed to maintain some sort of firearm (and no, not an assault weapon etc) for them to fall back on if it is really needed (and yes, background checks and a gun registry are needed for this to be more policeable).

While owning a gun may seem to make you safer, it really doesn't. As Bedstuy mentioned, having a gun would just make a street confrontation even more dangerous.
The other main argument for the use of a gun would be during a home invasion. I personally own one, and it would take me a total of over a minute to take it out of its bag and to properly load and prepare it. It would take even longer if the invasion was during me sleeping. By that point the robber would already have incapacitated me.
The truth is that owning a gun doesn't make you safer. I personally have a small one for recreational purposes, but it is foolish to try and gain safety from it.

[bedstuy]

Just to bring some facts into this:  Here's a report from 2010 on justifiable homicide.

-From 2006 to 2010, the ratio of criminal homicide to justifiable homicides was 44:1. 

-In 2010, there were 230 justifiable homicides to 8,275 criminal homicides.  If you add deaths from suicide by guns (19,392) and accidental shootings (606), guns saved 230 at the expense of 28,273. 

Guns reduce public safety.  It's a fact.  You're more likely going to be in the 28,273 camp than the 230 camp.  Plus, if we regulated guns sensibly, you wouldn't have to worry so much about protecting yourself because we would all be safer.

[IceSpear]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

Sure, but you don't see me insisting that everyone carry a duck, toenail clippings, and a pair of calipers at all times.

True. But, there may well be cases where one needs a gun to defend oneself, and thus, my own personal opinion is that people should be allowed to maintain some sort of firearm (and no, not an assault weapon etc) for them to fall back on if it is really needed (and yes, background checks and a gun registry are needed for this to be more policeable).

When are you at all likely to find yourself facing a situation in which a gun is helpful?

Instead of cowering during a home invasion, being ready the second they come through your door?

You must be a light sleeper.

I am actually.

[dead0man]

Just to bring some facts into this:  Here's a report from 2010 on justifiable homicide.

-From 2006 to 2010, the ratio of criminal homicide to justifiable homicides was 44:1. 

-In 2010, there were 230 justifiable homicides to 8,275 criminal homicides.  If you add deaths from suicide by guns (19,392) and accidental shootings (606), guns saved 230 at the expense of 28,273. 

Guns reduce public safety.  It's a fact.  You're more likely going to be in the 28,273 camp than the 230 camp.  Plus, if we regulated guns sensibly, you wouldn't have to worry so much about protecting yourself because we would all be safer.

This would make sense only if everytime a gun was used in a "good" situation the bad guy ended up dead and that clearly isn't the case.

[bedstuy]

Just to bring some facts into this:  Here's a report from 2010 on justifiable homicide.

-From 2006 to 2010, the ratio of criminal homicide to justifiable homicides was 44:1. 

-In 2010, there were 230 justifiable homicides to 8,275 criminal homicides.  If you add deaths from suicide by guns (19,392) and accidental shootings (606), guns saved 230 at the expense of 28,273. 

Guns reduce public safety.  It's a fact.  You're more likely going to be in the 28,273 camp than the 230 camp.  Plus, if we regulated guns sensibly, you wouldn't have to worry so much about protecting yourself because we would all be safer.

This would make sense only if everytime a gun was used in a "good" situation the bad guy ended up dead and that clearly isn't the case.

Ah, but that counts on both sides though.  Not every criminal use of a gun results in a homicide.

[dead0man]

Of course not, so the numbers are worthless.  There are no stats on that kind of thing in either direction.

[bedstuy]

Of course not, so the numbers are worthless.  There are no stats on that kind of thing in either direction.

They aren't worthless, they just don't tell the whole story as no single number could.  But, it is indicative of the number of times guns are used for each purpose and obviously, the number of times the result of death occurs.  That's worthwhile to know.  If we were talking about regulating a chemical additive to potato chips, the fact that it kills 28,000 people a year would be somewhat relevant, no?

[dead0man]

Well, 9000...as I'm sure you've read, people that want to kill themselves will whether they have access to a gun or not. cite

And the vast majority of the 9000 were done not by the "gun nut" we're all making fun of here, but by a dirt ball with an illegal weapon.  Everybody wants dirt ball with an illegal weapon to not have an illegal weapon.  Banning all guns will NOT get that illegal weapon away from Mr Dirt Ball.  Will it make it slightly more difficult for him?  Maybe, but why ban something that punishes millions for the crimes of a few thousand?  How's that drug war coming?

[bedstuy]

Well, 9000...as I'm sure you've read, people that want to kill themselves will whether they have access to a gun or not. cite

And the vast majority of the 9000 were done not by the "gun nut" we're all making fun of here, but by a dirt ball with an illegal weapon.  Everybody wants dirt ball with an illegal weapon to not have an illegal weapon.  Banning all guns will NOT get that illegal weapon away from Mr Dirt Ball.  Will it make it slightly more difficult for him?  Maybe, but why ban something that punishes millions for the crimes of a few thousand?  How's that drug war coming?

The suicide point is true I suppose.  Some people would think better of suicide without having easy access to a gun, as the higher suicide rate among cops seems to show.  But, many others will just find a way.  But, couldn't you also say that some of the people who killed in self-defense could have survived without killing or could have used non-lethal force?

On the broader point, who mentioned banning all guns as a policy choice?  I didn't, that's not my position on gun control and it's practically impossible in America anyway.  I agree that the secondary market is a major problem.  You can combat that with licensing requirements, background checks, regulating the sale and creating a strong paper trail, gun buy-backs, etc.  It's certainly possible to make an illegal gun cost $300 instead of $200.

[dead0man]

On the broader point, who mentioned banning all guns as a policy choice?  I didn't, that's not my position on gun control and it's practically impossible in America anyway.  I agree that the secondary market is a major problem.  You can combat that with licensing requirements, background checks, regulating the sale and creating a strong paper trail, gun buy-backs, etc.  It's certainly possible to make an illegal gun cost $300 instead of $200.

Then oddly enough, we're pretty much on the same page.  I agree with, more or less, all of that.  I'm not against regulation, especially of hand guns.  Less so for rifles and shotguns as those aren't used in crime all that often, but I wouldn't fight to hard against even that.  It's the stupid laws that do no good that I take issue with.  The AWB, complete bans in certain cities, what California has been trying to do lately.

[Adam Griffin]

I'm personally fine with guns and have owned them in the past, but most people who own them are ignorant, fearful, irrational human beings with a plethora of mental disorders aiding all of that. I gave up mine when I realized that it was indicative of a mental disorder and that there was no rational basis for the prior justifications I made for owning one (in full disclosure, I do still have a permit to CC).


The more guns you live around, the more likely it is one will be used to kill you. People who live in Republican states are 45% more likely to be murdered by a firearm than those in Democratic states, and 42% more likely to own a weapon.

Surprise, surprise. Firearm death rates are 114% higher in the five states with the highest rates of gun ownership when compared to the five states with the lowest gun ownership.



A thirty-year study revealed that there is a near-perfect correlation between firearm murder rates and gun ownership rates; for every 1 percentage point increase in ownership, there's a 1 percentage point increase in firearm murder rates.

Gun owners are rude, aggressive cretins.

The National Institutes of Health reports someone with a firearm in the vehicle is nearly 50% more likely to make rude gestures while behind the wheel than someone without a firearm, and nearly twice as likely to tailgate and aggressively pursue other drivers while on the road.

In Texas, gun owners with concealed carry licenses were nearly five times as likely to threaten to shoot someone than gun owners without concealed carry licenses.

"Good guys with guns" are delusional about their abilities.

A grand total of 0 mass shootings in the past thirty years have been stopped by someone who was on the scene at the time with a firearm.

20% of all ER injuries involving firearms resulted from instances where security guards' weapons were forcibly taken from them.

"Protecting your self/family/home" with a firearm is a fairy tale.

For every instance in which a gun is used to defend oneself in a home invasion, there are 22 instances of a home firearm being used in assaults/murders, suicides and accidents (7/11/4, respectively).

Half of all homes with guns have an unsecured firearm in them.

You're twice as likely to be murdered by a firearm by virtue of simply having one in the home than those who don't.

"Carrying a gun with me for safety" is irrational and not grounded in reality.

A gun owner who carries is ten times more likely to assault, murder or be assaulted/murdered via a firearm than he or she is to stop a crime.

Gun owners and dealers don't follow the law and have no interest in doing so.

More than 60% of gun owners agreed to sell a weapon to someone who admitted that they couldn't pass a background check.

20% of gun dealers attempted to sell a firearm to people posing as illegal straw buyers.


In any other scenario, this segment of the population would be labeled as aggressive, irresponsible, delusional criminals with a variety of mental disorders that mandate treatment under state supervision. Stop defending them and instead advocate for their immediate institutionalization.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Gun control is an issue where both extremes are pretty intolerable. I am biased by my antipathy towards the government and advocates of its power, but I find the blithering ignorance of many gun control advocates IRL...unsettling.

[Ebowed]

I feel significantly safer around anti-gun nuts.

In fact, I feel significantly safer living in a country where people don't carry guns on the street.  I haven't seen a gun in years.  Not being around guns has made me an "anti-gun nut."

[Maistre]

How many more guns do I have to buy to be considered a gun nut? I currently have 6.

[Хahar 🤔]

How many more guns do I have to buy to be considered a gun nut? I currently have 6.

-4

[dead0man]

How many more guns do I have to buy to be considered a gun nut? I currently have 6.

According to the OP, 18 more guns.

[MATTROSE94]

Both are pretty bad.

[Gass3268]

Anti-Gun nuts because they are idiots.

[Franzl]

I feel significantly safer around anti-gun nuts.

In fact, I feel significantly safer living in a country where people don't carry guns on the street.  I haven't seen a gun in years.  Not being around guns has made me an "anti-gun nut."

This isn't surprising. Living in a society that doesn't believe gun ownership is a right, much less that arming more people is a good thing, will tend to show you the absurdity of the American gun situation.